Can We Stop With The Name Calling Already ...

AmandaRose · Jun 19, 2019

@Glyptofane Once again can I point out that to be even considered for GRS you need to be screened for a minimum of two years by a number of psychiatrists and doctors then after that you have to convince a independent panel of 5 doctors that you DO NOT have a mental illness who must all unanimously agree that in fact YOU DO NOT HAVE a mental illness before you can be put forward for GRS.

guicrith · Jun 19, 2019

Why cant everyone quit whining and except that everyone is hated by someone and everyone hates someone.
Thats how humans work, they hate what they have had a bad experience with, if your sample size for a group is 1 crazy activist then yeah you will hate that group.
All this "disliking people(for whatever reason, mean or irrational included) = though crime you need to be deleted from history for" nonsense has gone wayyy too far.

Lacius · Jun 19, 2019

cots said:
Transgenerism used to be considered a mental disorder and was used as an umbrella term, got relabled, reclassified, broken down and now it's generally called, but not limited to gender dysphoria

As I said earlier, gender dysmorphia is not synonymous with being transgender. See my previous reply to you. In short, gender dysmorphia refers specifically to distress, not gender identity itself.

cots said:
which the principal author of the section of the DSM-V covering the issue clearly has stated was done for political purposes

I'm sure there were politics involved. When it came to homosexuality as a mental illness being removed from the DSM, for example, there was an intense lobbying effort from both outside and inside the psychiatric community. That doesn't mean they weren't correct. I'd be surprised if a similar thing didn't happen with the trans community, but I admittedly don't know a lot about what specifically led to that DSM change.

cots said:
therefor, by your own admission, isn't factually true.

I'm not sure what you're alluding to here. What admission, and what isn't factually true?

cots said:
Whatever the reasoning, that's what happened (and remind you it happened recently) and despite objections from the principal author, is now agreed upon by the psychiatric community.

For good reason. See my previous response to you for some of what it takes for something to be classified as a mental disorder and why homosexuality and being transgender aren't mental illnesses. I'm not particularly concerned with what one of the authors is saying, unless it gives a good reason to reclassify being transgender as a mental disorder (which I highly doubt). It also doesn't matter how recently it occurred.

cots said:
So, to be politically correct and to follow the authority of the psychiatric community it would be appropriate to state that transgender people suffering from various types dsyphoria are mentally ill.

Not all transgender people experience gender dysmorphia.
Gender dysmorphia is also not considered a mental disorder, although it is a condition acknowledged in the DSM-V.

cots said:
So stating that transgender people are mentally ill is no longer correct.

Being transgender is not a mental illness, correct.

cots said:
I'll do this, knowing that they used to be considered mentally ill and that like the author I mentioned, who I agree with, should still be considered as such. Thus I will address them how they wish, to avoid conflict, but in my heart and mind know that they are ill as I don't have to agree with the psychiatric community, but it would be the polite thing to do. It however won't for me personally, drop any of the related knowledge I've learned from dealing with trans people. It's not a reset button.

I don't think anybody cares what you believe, as long as you are treating people with the dignity and respect they deserve. However, that doesn't mean you aren't prejudiced against people who are trans, if you think they're all mentally ill.
If you believe being transgender is a mental illness, you are incorrect. See my previous response for details. The WHO, DSM, APA, and all other reputable, relevant organizations state that being transgender is not a mental illness.

cots said:
You can change the name of the Nintendo Virtual Boy to the Nintendo Switch and call it a radio instead of a video gaming console, but in my mind, it'll always be the Virtual Boy the video gaming console. That's something that you or the psychiatric community will have to realize that you can't fix, because there is nothing to edit, reclassify, or change because nothing is broken. It'll always be the Virtual Boy for me - and that's all that matters.

I'm not sure what your point is here. If your point is that reclassifying something from a mental illness to not a mental illness is arbitrary, you are mistaken. Our understanding has changed over time, and our classifications change accordingly. That's in part how science works, and you probably wouldn't want it any other way.

If your point is that being transgender has been arbitrarily renamed gender dysmorphia, that's not what happened. Gender dysmorphia is not the same thing as being transgender.

MadMageKefka · Jun 19, 2019

guicrith said:
Why cant everyone quit whining and except that everyone is hated by someone and everyone hates someone.
Thats how humans work, they hate what they have had a bad experience with, if your sample size for a group is 1 crazy activist then yeah you will hate that group.
All this "disliking people(for whatever reason, mean or irrational included) = though crime you need to be deleted from history for" nonsense has gone wayyy too far.

3 guys in Boston are having a "straight pride" parade and the media is going apeshit. Apparently youre only allowed to be proud if youre not a white, heterosexual male. What a time to be alive.

Lacius · Jun 19, 2019

guicrith said:
Why cant everyone quit whining and except that everyone is hated by someone and everyone hates someone.

Because that would make me complicit, and this thread demonstrates that a lot of the hate is based on falsehoods and prejudice.

Xzi · Jun 19, 2019

MadMageKefka said:
3 guys in Boston are having a "straight pride" parade and the media is going apeshit. Apparently youre only allowed to be proud if youre not a white, heterosexual male. What a time to be alive.

If this is the one I'm thinking of, it's no longer a "pride parade" when you bring guns. At that point it's a threat.

MadMageKefka · Jun 19, 2019

Xzi said:
If this is the one I'm thinking of, it's no longer a "pride parade" when you bring guns. At that point it's a threat.

I've heard nothing about guns, but if that is the case then I would be inclined to agree. A quick google search tells me that there is, in fact, going to be a parade. Floats and all.

Edit: It also kinda depends on the situation too. For example, if the NRA were to hold a parade I wouldn't really call it a threat if they had guns, for example.

Lacius · Jun 19, 2019

MadMageKefka said:
3 guys in Boston are having a "straight pride" parade and the media is going apeshit. Apparently youre only allowed to be proud if youre not a white, heterosexual male. What a time to be alive.

"Straight pride" exists as a counterprotest to "gay pride." There's nothing wrong with being straight, of course, but for a group that's not a marginalized other to proclaim pride is to implicitly say, "We are proud that we are not gay." That means, while "gay pride" is positive, "straight pride" is negative.

It's similar to the "blue lives matter" movement. It exists as a counterprotest to the "black lives matter" movement. There is nothing wrong with being a police officer, and they should generally be celebrated (despite some systemic issues), but to proclaim "blue lives matter" as a response to "black lives matter" is to implicitly say, "Blue lives matter more than black lives."

Xzi · Jun 19, 2019

This Tweet had me in stitches:

lil-arab-sweatyhairy-isnt-a-straight-pride-parade-just-traffic-57704244.png

MadMageKefka · Jun 19, 2019

Lacius said:
"Straight pride" exists as a counterprotest to "gay pride." There's nothing wrong with being straight, of course, but for a group that's not a marginalized other to proclaim pride is to implicitly say, "We are proud that we are not gay." That means, while "gay pride" is positive, "straight pride" is negative.

It's similar to the "blue lives matter" movement. It exists as a counterprotest to the "black lives matter" movement. There is nothing wrong with being a police officer, and they should generally be celebrated (despite some systemic issues), but to proclaim "blue lives matter" as a response to "black lives matter" is to implicitly say, "Blue lives matter more than black lives."

Its not a counter protest to the protest itself, but a protest to the message specifying a single group. The idea is that all walks of life deserve respect, not one particular one. Here you say that straight groups being proud shows a negative view on gay, so by that same logic, wouldn't positive views on being gay show negatively on straight? Oh, but you say its because the straight group isn't marginalized. So because one group is in a different situation, they aren't entitled to the same things? Sounds like discrimination to me... Who are you to say if someone is allowed to feel marginalized or not? This logic is everything that is keeping us from making any real progress in the world. Even when fighting for equality we remain divided. Its insane.

Lacius · Jun 19, 2019

MadMageKefka said:
Its not a counter protest to the protest itself, but a protest to the message specifying a single group. The idea is that all walks of life deserve respect, not one particular one. Here you say that straight groups being proud shows a negative view on gay, so by that same logic, wouldn't positive views on being gay show negatively on straight? Oh, but you say its because the straight group isn't marginalized. So because one group is in a different situation, they aren't entitled to the same things?

The difference is gay pride was born out of the need to exist without persecution. All walks of life deserve respect, yes, but only one of these two groups has to actively fight to get it, and that's gay pride. The history of straight pride is also one of ridicule and criticism against the LGBT community, and I suggest you look into that history before posting nonsense.

Gay pride comes from a place of necessity to be treated with respect. Straight pride comes as a petty response to gay pride. That's a big difference, and it's what makes one positive and one negative.

MadMageKefka said:
Sounds like discrimination to me...

Nobody is claiming that straight pride parades shouldn't be allowed to take place, so it's not discrimination. The fact that you aren't using the the word discrimination properly is evidence, however, that straight pride probably doesn't need to exist.

MadMageKefka said:
Who are you to say if someone is allowed to feel marginalized or not?

Heterosexuals, objectively, are not a marginalized group. That's another term you're misusing. Heterosexuals are the majority, and LGBT people are the minority. In addition, LGBT people are still very much treated as unequal under the law.

MadMageKefka said:
This logic is everything that is keeping us from making any real progress in the world.

No, what's hindering progress is the idea that heterosexuals are as marginalized a group as LGBT people. If that is the perception, then progress cannot be made with regard to gay rights.

It's similar to the "all lives matter" mantra in response to "black lives matter." We can all agree that all lives matter, but using it as a response to "black lives matter" distracts from the issue and prevents progress. It would be like somebody stealing an old woman's purse, and in response to the old woman's cries, a man says, "all purses matter." All purses do matter, but that doesn't do anything to solve the specific problem being addressed, and it hurts the old woman. "All lives matter" hurts "black lives matter." "Straight pride" hurts "gay pride."

MadMageKefka · Jun 19, 2019

Lacius said:
The difference is gay pride was born out of the need to exist without persecution.

Considering the lashback on straight pride, its pretty evident this is becoming the case.

Lacius said:
Heterosexuals, objectively, are not a marginalized group. That's another term you're misusing. Heterosexuals are the majority, and LGBT people are the minority. In addition, LGBT people are still very much treated as unequal under the law.

I said FEEL marginalized. You know, kinda like how some men FEEL like women, even though OBJECTIVELY they arent?

Lacius said:
Nobody is claiming that straight pride parades shouldn't be allowed to take place, so it's not discrimination.

Yes, yes they absolutely are.

Lacius · Jun 19, 2019

MadMageKefka said:
Considering the lashback on straight pride, its pretty evident this is becoming the case.

The backlash is warranted. See above. It's a movement born out of hate and ridicule, and there's no need for it.

MadMageKefka said:
I said FEEL marginalized.

Straight people are not a marginalized group in society. Respectfully, I suggest you learn what the word means.

MadMageKefka said:
You know, kinda like how some men FEEL like women, even though OBJECTIVELY they arent?

If you continue to refuse to acknowledge a difference between sex and gender, you're going to continue to make silly mistakes like this one.

MadMageKefka said:
Yes, yes they absolutely are.

I'm not necessarily against barring straight pride parades, given their history, but who is advocating that they be banned? I imagine that would violate some First Amendment rights.

Damon_girl · Jun 19, 2019

Funny how there was never a difference between sex and gender before until this new age of PC babies were born and demanded to feel special...

MadMageKefka · Jun 19, 2019

Lacius said:
The backlash is warranted. See above. It's a movement born out of hate and ridicule, and there's no need for it.

No, I actually mean lash back which means to fight back. I made a stupid mistake earlier. Take your victory there and stop trying to use it as the basis of your argument. What's next? Spelling? Clearly some people feel the need for straight pride, but you dismiss their concerns as unimportant, even advocate violating the group's rights simply because you don't agree. This is exactly what I mean.

Lacius said:
Straight people are not a marginalized group in society. Respectfully, I suggest you learn what the word means.

Men are not women. Respectfully, I suggest you learn what a penis is.

Lacius said:
If you continue to refuse to acknowledge a difference between sex and gender, you're going to continue to make silly mistakes like this one.

That's kinda what started this entire conversation, so yea, I'm going to continue to refuse a difference between sex and gender.

Lacius said:
I'm not necessarily against barring straight pride parades, given their history, but who is advocating that they be banned? I imagine that would violate some First Amendment rights.

I'm really not invested in this enough to take the time to find quotes and post them here. Its clear we aren't going to agree on anything here, really not sure what the point is any more. Just check around social media, primarily Twitter.

Lacius · Jun 19, 2019

Damon_girl said:
Funny how there was never a difference between sex and gender before until this new age of PC babies were born and demanded to feel special...

You mean the 1960s?

MadMageKefka · Jun 19, 2019

Lacius said:
You mean the 1960s?

Pretty sure 1960 just had boy and girl...

Lacius · Jun 19, 2019

MadMageKefka said:
Pretty sure 1960 just had boy and girl...

That's not what we're talking about.

Edit: Also, you're not correct either.

MadMageKefka · Jun 19, 2019

Lacius said:
That's not what we're talking about.

Edit: Also, you're not correct either.

Not what YOU'RE talking about maybe.... not sure who you think "we" is. And yes, yes I am. Check any 1960 birth certificate. Pretty sure helicopter isn't on any of them.

AmandaRose · Jun 19, 2019

MadMageKefka said:
Not what YOU'RE talking about maybe.... not sure who you think "we" is. And yes, yes I am. Check any 1960 birth certificate. Pretty sure helicopter isn't on any of them.

Show me any example where anyone in the world has helicopter on their birth certificate. Because to claim someone does is quite frankly ludicrous.

Can We Stop With The Name Calling Already ...

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