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Would You Pay for Air to Breathe?

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RandomUser

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Erm...assuming you're not being sarcastic...

I would think so. From what I've heard of the US, it's very common to be "anti government". AFAIK, the republicans always wanted at least government as possible, but even the democrats regulate things only a tiny bit. It can very well be that a large population percentage understands that taxes pay for all that is necessary in a country that companies won't touch (and frankly: Sanders leading the poll vote seems to indicate that not even being unlikely).
But still...it's not the image foreigners have of Americans (sorry).
Don't worry about it, you're good. I mean they're probably some people out their that doesn't like paying taxes, but they are in the minority, and for reasons for not liking to pay taxes is mostly due in part of the tax money not being properly utilize to keep the country running or not maintaining such infrastructure, a theory of the tax dollars is the governing body is pocketing the money. That maybe far-fetch but not impossible.
 
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livipup

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I think if we don't make an effort to clean the air now that eventually things are going to get so bad cities will have to install industrial air purifiers throughout public spaces and that the governments will charge citizens a tax for maintaining them. It's the route we're heading toward if we don't focus on clean energy production and reducing carbon emissions from both factories and consumer vehicles. I know here in Canada a carbon tax was put in place, but that doesn't stop manufacturers from polluting. It's more of a money-grab for the government. There needs to be an actual limit on how much CO2 a factory is allowed to put out with no way to get around that limit.
 

chrisrlink

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Only a person serious enough to kill the human race would want such a thing to be reality. :blink:

eh hem.......right here

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I think if we don't make an effort to clean the air now that eventually things are going to get so bad cities will have to install industrial air purifiers throughout public spaces and that the governments will charge citizens a tax for maintaining them. It's the route we're heading toward if we don't focus on clean energy production and reducing carbon emissions from both factories and consumer vehicles. I know here in Canada a carbon tax was put in place, but that doesn't stop manufacturers from polluting. It's more of a money-grab for the government. There needs to be an actual limit on how much CO2 a factory is allowed to put out with no way to get around that limit.
i read an article where it's too late for reversing the effects of Global warming even if we plant a bunch of trees it's just too late

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/reducing-atmospheric-co2/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climat...-late-to-reverse-the-damage-say-some-experts/
 
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notimp

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I think if we don't make an effort to clean the air now that eventually things are going to get so bad cities will have to install industrial air purifiers throughout public spaces and that the governments will charge citizens a tax for maintaining them. It's the route we're heading toward if we don't focus on clean energy production and reducing carbon emissions from both factories and consumer vehicles. I know here in Canada a carbon tax was put in place, but that doesn't stop manufacturers from polluting. It's more of a money-grab for the government. There needs to be an actual limit on how much CO2 a factory is allowed to put out with no way to get around that limit.
Wow, thats almost entirely wrong.

Industrial air purifiers are already a thing - and they do too little in regards to their cost, so they basically dont work. But wherever they were set up in public squares, people championed them as a real milestone of technological achievement, so they reacted to them - very well.

Also - tell me how air pollution will be a pressing urge (in the west), in an age, where oil is starting to become a limited good, air filters are already a thing in all industrial applications, and most of the industry has moved to China and surrounding countries, where they have a _real_ issue with air pollution.

Carbon taxes get put in place, so there is a price on pollution - which has to be set by "the entire world", or it doesnt work. Thats what the climate summits are for, if you dont just see them as events for activists doing rain dances in front of congress buildings.

What I start to really wonder about is - how do you get people in the west to think like you do? Where does the notion come from, that air pollution will get worse at all?

Even if we stick to non regenerative energy (which we will) in some form or another - even switching to natural gas instead of coal, solves the entire problem.

Taxes also arent the "issue" that will happen, when we dont solve this by civic action. Civic action in general does nothing, Apart from making everyone mad - so policy gets put into place. So taxes would actually be a solution - while "activist voluntarily do something, for something, something climate" - is not.

Your feelings of urgency, inevitability, accumulation, trend projection, solution proposal, ... everything is entirely wrong. Yet you feel strongly about it happening.

You also are for democracy I suppose?

This one is much easier to confront than "global warming" - because its local. We in the west dont have much of that problem. China does. In China no one cares, because they are too busy becoming billionaires in a - currently - 6% annual growth economy, that doesnt care about air pollution IN THE LEAST.

(They are working on mitigating the issue in the future, and are actually on the forefront of developing technology to do it - but they wont employ it, if it harms their developmental trajectory one bit. Because then their government and prosperity is history faster than they can even thing about the long term...)


In some cities, we have an issue with air pollution coming from traffic _on some days of the year_, that basically would be entirely solved, if only half of the people would use their cars to drive to work every day. Which requires the implementation of public traffic infrastructure, which is expansive, but doable. Or it would be solved by Uber (more economical driving). Or by electric vehicles - which to produce takes 30% less workers than in the past - a major german car manufacturer just announced. And has a far, far worse "value add" by complex engineering, so buy your cars from china, as soon as you can - because they will be just as good.

Which is why people ask themselves for years now, why on earth the german car industry has told policy makers, that the future would be electric, and they should pivot towards that with legislation as well. Its them destroying their industrial base, handing over marketshare to other countries, and wanting their own govenrnments to support that. Because of their recommendation. And something, something climate. What? While at the same time, we are supposed to pay more for natural gas from america, than for example russia, which is closer, because of political reasons, so we still dont shut down cole based power plants as quickly. What?

But thats just politics - so that will be made to work, eventually - while I have no idea - what to do with all the crazed climate activists on the streets, that have no ideas or proposals of what to do themselves. But aspirations and dreams... That wont be economically viable to even 15% of what they expect them to be.

And then marketing is supposed to pick up the difference and sell those ideas around the world, or what?

Do me a favor. At your next raindance meet ups, start to think about what you are actually doing.
 
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A little thing should be changed on that click bait title of yours.

The whole content states if you would pay for "air", but its referring to clean and breathable air.

My answer would be no, I wouldn't pay for plain and simple air, but if I'd needed to safely breathe and survive, then I would pay for medical oxygen.
 

FAST6191

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I swear, if they tried charging, I'd go to them and take a deep breath. And then exhale in their face.
Given the likely scenario when this happens is if the air becomes less desirable then it would probably play out like someone saying "I will not pay for your water as I have a well that produces slightly brackish and sulphurous water" before proceeding to drink that in front of me.

Also somewhat surprised nobody has particularly considered what happens when humanity decides to do the whole living in space thing.
 

livipup

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KingVamp

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Also somewhat surprised nobody has particularly considered what happens when humanity decides to do the whole living in space thing.
You mean that any attempt to monetize air wouldn't cause riots in an small enclosed area? Once stabilized, you wouldn't need any personal oxygen, unless you have health problems or you are leaving the habitat.

In fact, trying to monetize anything before a stable habitat has been long establish would cause riots.
 

notimp

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I mean we already pay for water.
In most of Europe people actually rebelled at the notion, of selling their water facilities to private (not communally owned) companies.

(Communal companies: Profits get used for the same thing tax income is used, and nothing else.)

Thats actually a hot topic issue where people will protest on the streets to never let it happen, where I am from.

And when some neoliberals tried to present it as a great new opportunity in my country, they got hit in the mouth immediately and afterwards got ridiculed in all media outlets. They dropped the suggestion so fast, you should have seen it.

To pay for water has the intended effect to "cap its miss-use". Make people think about taking long showers, fixing a leaky faucet, stuff like that. Or a revenue stream for the state, if you want to look at it from that perspective - but then the state uses that money for common good projects.

Now if you sell out your water infrastructure, thats on you. You could have prevented that politically.

But apart from that - valid point.

Now, its a little harder to own air though.. ;)
 
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Super.Nova

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Maybe not everyone noticed, but we already are paying for cleaner air to breathe.
Particularly, people who buy air filters and such as pollution has passed the threshold their respiratory systems can withstand and developed symptoms.

Still, seeing how things are progressing, we'll be buying cleaner air very soon.
 

notimp

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If you are in a part of the world thats currently heavily into industrial production, the arguments get different, yes.

China has real issues with Air pollution these days. Europe and the US "on most (95%) days of the year" (problematic out, but still) have not.

Chinese activist initiative on that topic (spearheaded by a TV spokespersons, shut down by the government within a month):


Keywords to search for: Under the dome (title of the shut down innitiative), or google for

china air pollution tv moderator

(Strange search terms, but good results.. ;) )
 
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FAST6191

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You mean that any attempt to monetize air wouldn't cause riots in an small enclosed area? Once stabilized, you wouldn't need any personal oxygen, unless you have health problems or you are leaving the habitat.

In fact, trying to monetize anything before a stable habitat has been long establish would cause riots.

I don't see it, especially if there are going to be privately owned ships/stations/rotating habitats/domes.

We already have ships where there is an expectation of payment (in an enclosed area with no competition) for various things like that. I would see it as an extension of that.
 

KingVamp

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I don't see it, especially if there are going to be privately owned ships/stations/rotating habitats/domes.

We already have ships where there is an expectation of payment (in an enclosed area with no competition) for various things like that. I would see it as an extension of that.
We are also talking about space. Much harsher and no longer surrounded by the things that are meant to keeps us alive.

Sure, there might be an initial price, but doubt the initial years after wouldn't be on a rations system.
 

Alexander1970

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We have to pay for water since years and water is also an free ressource from mother earth.

Only why the "society" or better said the peoples who stand behind all that controls us,its "better" for us to poor things in the water so it tastes better and its healthier for us and it don´t ruins the water conductions.While our water is not good because of the things that are in the air and get to into.:wacko:

The same WILL happen to air.Why ? Because its all of the damned MONEY !
 

notimp

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We have to pay for water since years and water is also an free ressource from mother earth.
Second try. People have stop to use limericks as a replacement for logic. ;)

It makes sense to "put a price on drinking water", which people can waste. So they use it more consciously.

It doesnt make sense to "put a price on breathing air", which people cant waste. So they wont breathe more consciously.

Thats really the difference in as far as that argument is concerned for the end user.

Also you have to factor in abundance. And as long as you dont have a high number of people living under water.... They pretty much will tell you "hey - your buy 'better air' concept" really is an artifical construct, isnt it? Clean drinking water, much more of a real concept.

And you have to factor in "ownability". At that point we are back to "air in jars" (or cans) - which really doesnt work. (Its a scam.)
Or airfilters, which is a question you can answer on your own. Do you pay for air filters?

So water and air - actually are quite different in those ways.
 
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FAST6191

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I have met plenty of people that were a waste of air.

I also can't quite get behind your logic there with regards to water. In many cases you are free to live off grid as far as water is concerned. The water piped to you then becomes something of a luxury, though many places have gone further and made it some flavour of public commodity because the maths works out for it.

Similarly it need not just be baseline air but premium quality/treated air, which also brings it in line with water which is typically treated and transported to you. Artificial construct? At this point marginally more so than water -- most people can still breath normal air in most of the world well enough where the average modern day first world human guzzles untreated out of a river or even a lot of wells and their arse will probably be a water cannon in fairly short order, to say nothing of probably not enjoying the taste. Whether that remains to be the case for air in the future, or certain locations in the future, is a different matter, and that was where many presumed the OP was heading.

As for air filters there are several main cases.

1) Allergies or medical.
2) Workshop type environments -- wood dust is not good stuff to be inhaling, nor a lot of other things in workshops.
3) Item storage and servers.

Dodging getting legionnaires disease via air conditioning also counts for a few there.
 

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