Men’s Group wins lawsuit. U.S. Women may be forced to be drafted to wars.

The Catboy · Feb 25, 2019

SG854 said:
They have protested the draft for decades. It’s why we even have a voluntary army in the first place.

The question is, is it feasible to remove the draft or is it necessary in a desperate time of need of soldiers, since not all wars are unavoidable. Some are, but when an enemy attacks you have no choice but to fight.

A good example is WW2. There were European countries that had a chance to stop Nazi Germany from growing in power, and actually had a chance of defeating them when they were weaker. But they preached that war is a choice and we don’t need to fight. Eventually Germany got stronger and they declared war on the pacifist countries, so they were forced into war any way, and by then war was not a choice.

I actually can't find much about these groups protesting the draft, which is a real concern onto itself. It's actually that real concern that they could be working to fix as well. We have the internet now, we have Youtube, other groups have been using these platforms and getting results.
I going to be honest with you, if we didn't use the draft after 9/11, then I think you answered your question. We didn't need the draft when we were actually attacked and when we went to war with multiple countries because people were more than willing to sign up for the war. If/when we get attacked, people are going to sign up, there's no reason to force them to sign up when we already have history showing that the willing will sign up after an attack.

SG854 · Feb 25, 2019

Lilith Valentine said:
I actually can't find much about these groups protesting the draft, which is a real concern onto itself. It's actually that real concern that they could be working to fix as well. We have the internet now, we have Youtube, other groups have been using these platforms and getting results.
I going to be honest with you, if we didn't use the draft after 9/11, then I think you answered your question. We didn't need the draft when we were actually attacked and when we went to war with multiple countries because people were more than willing to sign up for the war. If/when we get attacked, people are going to sign up, there's no reason to force them to sign up when we already have history showing that the willing will sign up after an attack.

If your talking about men’s groups theres a diversity of opinions in them. There’s some that want the draft and there’s some that don’t. But remember some of the ones that want the draft are wanting it because they feel it’s a necessity, not because they are war crazy.

The draft is seen as a last resort when none that sign up for war are left.

If it’s a necessity then how do we solve the dilema of women. There are feminist also that have criticized the draft as sexist, and may want it removed, but then what if we don’t remove it, then what do we do with women? Is it fair or constitutional for a Woman to not have the draft but men do?

I personally don’t like wars and the draft like many people, just like I don’t like serial killers and rapists and wish they were gone. But they exist and we need a way to deal with them.

Hanafuda · Feb 25, 2019

Xzi said:
It is a de-railer, but it's also not relevant to this conversation.

Sure it is. If women aren't also subject to the draft (i.e. how it has always been before) , then if a draft happens, how long before some dude refuses and says he's a woman? I give it less than 24 hrs. Actually, I'm surprised someone hasn't already simply refused to register at turning 18, claiming identity as a female.

Anyway, to keep it on topic, let's just say the question is ... should a young man currently be allowed to get out of registering for the draft by claiming identity as a female? Obviously, if women are allowed to register too, then that 'loophole,' if you will, would disappear. I see that as a positive all around.

The Catboy · Feb 25, 2019

SG854 said:
If your talking about men’s groups theres a diversity of opinions in them. There’s some that want the draft and there’s some that don’t. But remember some of the ones that want the draft are wanting it because they feel it’s a necessity, not because they are war crazy.

The draft is seen as a last resort when none that sign up for war are left.

If it’s a necessity then how do we solve the dilema of women. There are feminist also that have criticized the draft as sexist, and may want it removed, but then what if we don’t remove it, then what do we do with women? Is it fair or constitutional for a Woman to not have the draft but men do?

I personally don’t like wars and the draft like many people, just like I don’t like serial killers and rapists and wish they were gone. But they exist and we need a way to deal with them.

You are right about diversity within men's rights groups, I honestly can't find much when it comes to cohesive ideas formed by men's rights groups.

I still pose the question, should the draft even exist anymore? If it's truly necessary, why didn't we use it after 9/11? Why didn't we use it during the Iraq war? Simple answer, because people actually wanted to sign up for these wars and did sign up. Calling the draft "sexist" or demanding women into the draft are easy methods of avoiding the problem. Issues like this require actual work to fix, require actual public awareness and require being loud. Rolling over and saying, "Well, we aren't going to remove it, so why try?" is a problem.

Plus I am going to bring up the issue of Trump's transgender military ban. Shouldn't these groups be fighting against that ban? If they want to make this about equality, then they need to actually MAKE this about equality, otherwise, the system is still unequal.

granville · Feb 25, 2019

There IS some diversity of opinion about certain issues in MRA groups, including the draft. I've seen some argue for, and others against it.

There actually do exist legitimate mens issues that are worth bringing up. The problem is that in actual practice there aren't any legitimate mens rights groups out there. MRA communities are all filled with the most vile kinds of people imaginable. Old school sexists, mgtows (embittered ex boyfriends/husbands) and incels generally being the core demographic. There's little desire from these groups to actually help men in a constructive way, it's largely just a circlejerk of sexists who just want to find ways to torment women.

Now to be fair (though it isn't even close to being an even comparison) there are obviously also toxic feminist groups out there who similarly hate men. They deserve to be treated with the same contempt as their MRA counterparts. But unlike MRA groups, it's actually quite easy to find many feminist groups that aren't embarrassing pools of filth. Most are receptive and supportive of men and their issues.

Fugelmir said:
I have a girlfriend :o. But she's Japanese and knows her place

There's only one "place" a girlfriend of yours would ever be- your imagination.

Fugelmir · Feb 25, 2019

granville said:
There exist legitimate mens issues that are worth bringing up. The problem is that in actual practice there aren't any good mens rights groups out there. Pretty much all you'll find are the vilest kinds of people imaginable. Old school sexists, mgtows (embittered ex boyfriends/husbands) and incels generally being the core demographic.

Looking at the general comments in their communities, they aren't even particularly interested in finding legitimate constructive ways to help improve the lives of men. Instead, the general desire is instead to return women back to being "property" of men. Many will admit this isn't likely to happen (though some still hope), so they settle instead to trying to find ways to "punish" women for achieving equality to men.

Now to be fair (though it isn't even close to being an even comparison) there are obviously also toxic feminist groups out there who similarly hate men. They deserve to be treated with the same contempt as their MRA counterparts. But unlike MRA groups, it's actually quite easy to find many feminist groups that aren't embarrassing pools of filth. Most are receptive and supportive of men and their issues.

There's only one "place" a girlfriend of yours would ever be- your imagination.

It's not a crazy claim. I dunno why you'd think it impossible.

WeedZ · Feb 25, 2019

granville said:
There IS some diversity of opinion about certain issues in MRA groups, including the draft. I've seen some argue for, and others against it.

There actually do exist legitimate mens issues that are worth bringing up. The problem is that in actual practice there aren't any legitimate mens rights groups out there. MRA communities are all filled with the most vile kinds of people imaginable. Old school sexists, mgtows (embittered ex boyfriends/husbands) and incels generally being the core demographic. There's little desire from these groups to actually help men in a constructive way, it's largely just a circlejerk of sexists who just want to find ways to torment women.

Now to be fair (though it isn't even close to being an even comparison) there are obviously also toxic feminist groups out there who similarly hate men. They deserve to be treated with the same contempt as their MRA counterparts. But unlike MRA groups, it's actually quite easy to find many feminist groups that aren't embarrassing pools of filth. Most are receptive and supportive of men and their issues.

There's only one "place" a girlfriend of yours would ever be- your imagination.

How do you know all this? Wasnt there some sort of tv special a few years back where a feminist with these same misconceptions pretended to be a dude to join one of these groups to expose it for everything you just stated, and then completely changed her mind? Stating that these groups were constructive, dealt with real male issues, and even became friends with several members.

grossaffe · Feb 25, 2019

Lacius said:
The men's rights movement is largely misogynistic and usually supports inequality skewed in favor of men. Since men aren't a marginalized group, the movement typically doesn't address any real issues.

Can you back this up?

Glyptofane said:
What do you mean? They are more likely to blow the enemies dick than they are to blow his brains out. You're naive.

Fugelmir said:
Women are vastly inferior to men. It's very dangerous to have the equality mindset.

Well I know who's opinions I do not need to see anymore.

WeedZ said:
How do you know all this? Wasnt there some sort of tv special a few years back where a feminist with these same misconceptions pretended to be a dude to join one of these groups to expose it for everything you just stated, and then completely changed her mind? Stating that these groups were constructive, dealt with real male issues, and even became friends with several members.

There was a documentary called The Red Pill that was shot by a feminist who decided to go into the world of Men's Rights Activists. She went into it expecting misogyny and the like, instead she came out of it with a whole new respect and empathy for them and also questioning her own identity as a feminist.

Deleted User · Feb 25, 2019

The draft should be replaced with incentives to serve.

grossaffe · Feb 25, 2019

Snugglevixen said:
The draft should be replaced with incentives to serve.

For the record, there are incentives to serve, and there hasn't actually been a draft since the early seventies. Men just have to register for the draft in case they decide they need a draft.

Fates-Blade-900 · Feb 25, 2019

Natural said:
Why should it not be like that? Men had to sign the draft for the right to vote so why shouldn't women?

Because women have drawbacks, guys do not. (What drawbacks? Just think about it.)

Fates-Blade-900 · Feb 25, 2019

Glyptofane said:
He's right. It's supposed to be innate. Everyone knows if anyone has to die, it should always be men first.

He is, sadly some people can't seem to see that.

Captain_N · Feb 25, 2019

Well women want equal rights. They can fight just like men can. A gun knows no sex or any of the 96 dumb made up genders there are...

granville · Feb 25, 2019

WeedZ said:
How do you know all this? Wasnt there some sort of tv special a few years back where a feminist with these same misconceptions pretended to be a dude to join one of these groups to expose it for everything you just stated, and then completely changed her mind? Stating that these groups were constructive, dealt with real male issues, and even became friends with several members.

The movie is called The Red Pill. It was named after one of the most popular MRA communities online (a subreddit). Which is ironic because I doubt Cassie Jay actually visited TheRedPill subreddit herself. If she had, she likely wouldn't have had such a sympathetic opinion of MRAs.

The vast majority of MRAs (as they exist today) are not actually interested in legitimate men's issues. Actually visit their communities yourself and take a look at how they behave and what they believe when not on camera pretending to act like normal people. In reality, 99% of the MRA popular are just angry men complaining about how women are all a bunch of worthless brainless spoiled whores who deserve to be treated like children. Any hint of being respect towards women will get you called beta, cuck, autistic etc etc. And there's also a fair share of anti-semitism and racism frequently sprinkled in.

My guess is that the MRAs Cassie Jay interviewed saw an opportunity to put on a nice guy facade and trick her into giving them attention. They probably figured she wouldn't bother looking far into how they actually behave online when her back is turned, and that many viewers wouldn't bother checking either. Again I hate to encourage people to go to these sites, but it's important to know how MRAs actually behave and that it's not remotely accurate to the people Cassie Jay interviewed.

Incidentally, MRA feedback to Cassie Jay's movie was extremely hostile. Going through the threads about the movie on several popular MRA sites (including TheRedPill subreddit), most are shitting all over the movie and calling Cassie Jay a greedy selfish attention whore (and "AWALT" as they call it)...

Xzi · Feb 25, 2019

Hanafuda said:
Sure it is. If women aren't also subject to the draft (i.e. how it has always been before) , then if a draft happens, how long before some dude refuses and says he's a woman? I give it less than 24 hrs. Actually, I'm surprised someone hasn't already simply refused to register at turning 18, claiming identity as a female.

You worry about the silliest things. Nobody is going to re-think the gender they identify as just to avoid a draft that will likely never happen.

Besides, dodging the draft is easy. Just claim bone spurs like Donald Trump, or shit yourself in front of the recruiter like Ted Nugent.

WeedZ · Feb 25, 2019

granville said:
The movie is called The Red Pill. It was named after one of the most popular MRA communities online (a subreddit). Which is ironic because I doubt Cassie Jay actually visited TheRedPill subreddit herself. If she had, she likely wouldn't have had such a sympathetic opinion of MRAs.

The vast majority of MRAs (as they exist today) are not actually interested in legitimate men's issues. Actually visit their communities yourself and take a look at how they behave and what they believe when not on camera pretending to act like normal people. In reality, 99% of the MRA popular are just angry men complaining about how women are all a bunch of worthless brainless spoiled whores who deserve to be treated like children. Any hint of being respect towards women will get you called beta, cuck, autistic etc etc. And there's also a fair share of anti-semitism and racism frequently sprinkled in.

My guess is that the MRAs Cassie Jay interviewed saw an opportunity to put on a nice guy facade and trick her into giving them attention. They probably figured she wouldn't bother looking far into how they actually behave online when her back is turned, and that many viewers wouldn't bother checking either. Again I hate to encourage people to go to these sites, but it's important to know how MRAs actually behave and that it's not remotely accurate to the people Cassie Jay interviewed.

Incidentally, MRA feedback to Cassie Jay's movie was extremely hostile. Going through the threads about the movie on several popular MRA sites (including TheRedPill subreddit), most are shitting all over the movie and calling Cassie Jay a greedy selfish attention whore (and "AWALT" as they call it)...

That's not actually what I was talking about. There was another situation like this red pill one where the women dressed and acted like a man, attended their meetings, went to their outings, etc. They didn't know she was a women and they didn't know they had been infiltrated. But still, how do you know? As cassie Jay said, from the bit I looked up a little bit ago, her only experience with these groups is what she saw online. I assume that's the case with you.

J-Machine · Feb 25, 2019

war is amazingly efficient right now. being a lady wont matter in a world where child soldiers can kick yer arse.

spectral · Feb 25, 2019

While I disagree with the entire concept of a military draft other than in the direst of need to defend a homeland directly, this makes sense with how things are atm. It's been pointed out that these aren't the "rights" women want. Well too bad, if you want equality you take the good with the bad. Otherwise you aren't looking for equal rights, you're looking for privilege.

granville · Feb 25, 2019

WeedZ said:
That's not actually what I was talking about. There was another situation like this red pill one where the women dressed and acted like a man, attended their meetings, went to their outings, etc. They didn't know she was a women and they didn't know they had been infiltrated. But still, how do you know? As cassie Jay said, from the bit I looked up a little bit ago, her only experience with these groups is what she saw online. I assume that's the case with you.

I wish I only saw this crap online. It would be very easy to ignore. Unfortunately I grew up with several MRA cousins.

One was more of the classic sexist variety. He's pretty old and had a sort of "arranged marriage" with my cousin. He kept her on a tight leash and wouldn't let her work, vote etc under threat of being beaten (which often happened, he was a raging alcoholic especially in his youth). She hated him all her life, but she was conditioned by her traditionalist parents to put up with it. She wasn't particularly well educated even as a child, her parents steered her into the direction of becoming a drone-like housewife for a rich husband. Her husband was indeed reasonably wealthy and was able to even exert power and control over his adult female children and grandchildren as well.

Another cousin is more of an incel, he lives in his parent's basement and has always been very bitter and nasty towards women. Probably jealousy, I don't think he's ever been in any sort of relationship. Though he constantly makes lewd and sexist (or racist) remarks thinking it will impress girls. Granted there ARE pick up artists who have the good looks and can push the right buttons to trick certain women into falling for them, but he doesn't have such "qualities" and just gets treated as an obnoxious dolt. He once got into an argument with my mom over women voting, resulting in him smashing her in the face with some rotten fruit. He has smacked her on other occasions (without any reasonable provocation) along with physically and verbally assaulting other women who used to work at his mother's family business.

He also has a brother with a somewhat similar attitude, but the brother actually managed to get a woman to marry him. Seemed to softened him up slightly on the sexism compared to his brother, though definitely not entirely. He was better looking and had the sense to keep the insults restrained while pursuing her. She only started getting a taste of his behavior after they were married and had some kids.

I've known other people like this as well. You run into a lot of them especially when you live in the deep south (Tennessee and now Florida). But these three were the ones i've been most closely familiar with, having grown up with them. Wish I didn't, it's extremely unpleasant.

trogoldito · Feb 25, 2019

I've been arguing for this to happen for years. If women want equal rights then they should be treated equally in all respects. Drafting included. Gotta take the good with the bad.

Men’s Group wins lawsuit. U.S. Women may be forced to be drafted to wars.

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