Do "good" and "bad" people actually exist?

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@weatMod:

This should be moderated. :/ As its most likely propaganda.

Here is why:
There is no news source attached to it.
It is written in an agitative and non descriptive manner.
Personality rights are violated left and right - those images couldnt be published unredacted - there are laws against that.
There is no objective distance. The "matter of fact'ism" even shouting from the title (where is the "allegedly", where are the actual legal terms, if this is a report about a case in court) is disturbing.

The hook for the baited outrage is in the first line of text "a new mexican mother did nothing". You'd never open like this, if this was a report.

This is the creation of a disturbed mind - and/or someone involved in riling up some manufactured outrage for a reason.

--

Brings us to another excellent point though. Welcome to Facebook. Where stuff like this gets traction - because there couldnt even be theoretically enough people to screen all content that gets published.

Also welcome to your new all fancy tech job created by this innovation miracle that is social media - of looking at stuff like that for 8 hours a day, if you are living in the Philippines or a neighboring country. Because labor is cheap there. We certainly dont self police our discussion communities anymore. Let them do it... :/

Also media literacy. I take one look at this story and get what this is. Others might not. I've learned that stuff though.. :/

edit: Image in question seemingly originated on 4chan:
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/194646897
Thankfully the image and story seem fake. At first it seemed like some sort of anti-drug fear mongering, reefer madness style. Being from 4chan though, I expect it was made to shock and disturb people. Hopefully the person who made it only had shock as a goal, and don't actually fantasize about this. Worse yet, the story is true and they are or know one if the people in the story and posted their names and likenesses in spite of the legality.

Anyway, does anyone else think that using drugs makes one a bad person? Assuming that you aren't harming or endangering anyone else with your behavior.
 

notimp

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Here is the 80 IQ version with them industrial beats for easy feeling of yeah this is hip and happening of the previously posted video:



Its the launch video of the Bernie Sanders/Yanis Varoufakis initiative called DiEM25 that was publicly presented two days ago.

edit: They have set up a youtube channel already. ;) Look for DiEM25.

"Internationalists against globalists and fashists" in Varoufakis' own words. ;)

They also - like the centrists movement, are very much into "the green economy" to solve all the issues. ;) (Primarily savings not being invested into initiatives, that would actually grow economies.)

Still - we could discuss this in here... But then, I could also divert to the politics forum and have FUN discussions about how proper egality and the green economy are for the future of the planet (I'm mocking those people, if you havent caught it.. ;) ).

I'm just putting this here, so people can not use the "how would I be a good person/try not to be a bad persion" discussion to entertain some form of escapism from the reality surrounding them. :)

"Well its all how you grew up, nature and nurture -" is very comforting - but also entirely lethargic. As people are stuck at the "well can't do anything about it" stage. Thats BS. ;)
 
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GaaraPrime

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Are "good people" "good" by personal choice? Did they make the right decisions growing up? Were they lucky enough to be born into a loving family? Were they lucky enough not to suffer from mental illness? Were they lucky enough to have enough food on the table? Were they blessed with altruistic genes?

EDIT: As I posted on the second page

Well, what do you call people who tried to rob my dad and uncle and in the process murdered both of them? Good? Bad?

I would definitely say they are "bad" people and among the worst scum on earth.
 

notimp

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Yep, and thanks to facbook, we can all social graph them and put them into a place called Australia like the British did way back when. Problem solved. Scum of the earth Ossies. (Now to explain to them millennials, the last sentence I dont mean, I just posted to provoke.)

Social score - chinese government style. Vote for it. If you still can.

(Issues: "grouping people based on their potential future behavior", "giving them labels, they can never get rid off".)

Sorry for your loss.
 
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notimp

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Why do you find the need to group them together under a label anyways? ;)

I mean, you have a molester, a cannibal, amongst them three murderers, and a pseudo religious leader -

that for the most part have most in common, by all being featured once in a while on nightly US reality scare-sploitation television formats.

Then we all watch Silence of the Lambs, and speak out loud the Hannibal Lector lines, we remember. Then we made Dexter one of the most popular shows ever. Loved true detective. Then we cheer, when OJ got free. ;)

Those publicly visible stories of true evil basically serve the purpose of a public exorcism. There is a concept in the performing arts, where we look at things, to "feel them through - f.e a leading character", so we dont have or get the feeling to look for those situations for real. Its the cathartic moment we are after. The "I'd never even.... - I'm still a better person/this is still a better world".

There is another thing all of those public "real evil" stories have in common - they (their bad guys) only ever affected usually two dozen people at most. Because if its getting more, its starts to feel less like it could affect us personally. Its strange.

As soon as they affect more people, it becomes harder to use them as "picturebook excamples of real evil".

Jimmy Savile we all agree on. The internal policy of the catholic church to insist on adhering to "church law" and not common law in dealing with their molestation cases - which were much more wide spread, and prolonged because of that - all of a sudden not so evil anymore.

The Huntley guy (whose case I didnt come across before) murdered two girls, which is about a third of the usual civil casualties number of a drone strike gone wrong. The first one personified evil, the socond one - a what do you know - necessary force. Bad Karma.

Its funny how that works...

If you only take the common narrative stories that are there to put your moral outrage into them, and then feel better as a human being afterwards - its easy to fingerpoint and say "those are bad people". Yes, thats what those moral tales are for.
(In germany we still have a tradition called "Kasperltheater", where a funny/chaotic/goodguy usually tries to hunt a robber, sockpuppet style. This whole happening has a very important act in it. Namely sometime in the middle of the play the Kasperl (good guy), and the robber are on the same "screen". And the Kasperl doesnt see the robber, and he ask in a fourth wall breaking dialog with the audience, where the robber could be, and if they see the robber - and the entire audience (children) gets basically 'freaking mad' (in a good way) ;) shouting where he is to the Kasperl, fingerpointing, footstomping and everything. :) When the Kasperl finally gets to the place where the audience guides him to, the robber is gone already. Thats catharsis. :) The children successfully identified the evil, and got four minutes of "oj weh", collective lamentment, and the lived in hope, that if they just shouted loud enough at the time, the Kasperl will catch the robber, then and there and good will prevail. ;) Its a fascinating thing. ;) )

But thats the easy way out. They (public common moral outrage narratives) almost don't count. ;) Much more interesting to look at stuff without the "everyone universally agrees" label on it. :)

(Philosophy is more an art than a science btw, which results in some funny moments, when algorithmic design tries to tackle moral problems scientifically. As in - thats not really possible. As in - it depends on the moral philosophy you are following... )

Also - its interesting, that we automatically deviate towards the "bad" part of the dichotomy.

I have yet to see one person stepping forward to say - look at that persons behavior, thats obviously a good person - how can we even question that. We are much too afraid, of what that person might do in the next moment. ;) They better be old and set in their ways... (Mother Theresa, ... ;) )

So the spectrum is weighted it seems.. ;)
 
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mattytrog

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I should have kept my mouth shut. I forgot I was replying to Mr. Wall-Of-Text.

Not difficult to understand, no matter what inspired intellectual eloquent spin you put on it.

People like those I mentioned, have forfeited their humanity. Therefore they are no better than vermin. And should be shot as such.

You can no longer call yourself a part of "humanity" to commit such acts. Therefore, it is free-for-all.

Quote...
The Huntley guy (whose case I didnt come across before) murdered two girls, which is about a third of the usual civil casualties number of a drone strike gone wrong.

So what? There will be casualities in war. Hence the name. War.

Your logic seems to dictate that (I`m paraphrasing here) "A nonce murdered two girls... So what? How many have died in drone strikes?"

People die. All day, every day. It`s how we get there is the interesting bit.

That "bad" person murdered them girls. I judge someone as bad by the actions they have done. As proved in a court of law in this example.

Depends on your definition of a bad person.

For example... A cheat.

A man cheats on his wife. Not a very nice thing to happen at all to the wife. But does that really place him in league with the monsters I mentioned? Does it make him a "bad" person? Course not. Just one persons definition of bad.

But there are universally accepted criterion of "bad" in the examples above.

So... for the NT;DR (notimp; didn`t read) out there... Yes bad people exist. And they are beyond redemption. And should be exterminated like the vermin they are. You leftists don`t like it? Suck it up you bunch of panzies.
 

spiderman1216

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The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
Except they aren't the circumstances of one's birth usually determine what they will do in the future assuming no one helps them.
 

PanTheFaun

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I don't believe there is such a thing as good or evil. Everything is based on certain morals and values of every individual, culture, or country.
What may be a good thing to you may be a seriously heinous thing to me.
 

notimp

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People like those I mentioned, have forfeited their humanity. Therefore they are no better than vermin. And should be shot as such.
Or simply imprisoned, in the 75% of countries that dont have the death penalty anymore ('merica f*ck yeah).

Also - my point being that your average US Army drone pilot, or catholic church bishop simply carouselling sex offenders around to other municipalities and hiding them from the law are morally really not any better off than the murderers and molesters, that are paraded for your enjoyment on late night television programs.

Then I explained, that being engulfed by common moral outrage narratives ("It could happen to you!") really serves the purpose of "getting you off" (catharsis) on moral superiority grounds. Probably while liking your gorefest horror flix, just as much as the next guy, but not acting on those notions.

The guy killing those two girls, that "moral monster", likely was a mental case, that now gets paraded around by TV producers for your enjoyment. And the next school shooter - somehow will be seen as less morally appalling, because even though no one mentions it (for good reasons, because you have to make monsters out of those cases), every one can imagine a history of abuse - that came beforehand.

And then you all look up and put a hand over your heart, when the national anthem plays, and one of your presidents holds a war speech. ("Dear fellow americans, ...") Or your financial industry ruined the worlds economy again. Or some embargo of yours also affects refugee camps.

Or sheer neglect made sure, that more people died from the clean up work of 9/11 (cancer mostly) than from the terrorist attacks on that day.

So the guys killing two people because they are mentally deranged, those are your TV presentable monsters, and the rest, mostly is fate - or something youd rather not think about.

And to be honest thats not even a moral beatdown, thats just how humans work. They are afraid of what they can imagine. They are fascinated by every gory detail. Nothing sells papers as well as a bad news story. Their movie blockbusters are sponsored by army and navy. And they have learned to differentiate between morally good killings, and bad ones (the bad ones are gory, the good ones are clean - except when the world refuses to sell you your tested death penalty drugs any longer, then things become murky... (oh the humanity, on that one...)). Then they watch baseball on the weekends.

- Also, please dont take youtube videos with the words "Proof that..." seriously. As you might have noticed, there is no quality control on youtube or social media. Every persons output is just as "interesting" to the algorithm (sorting by popularity) as the next ones, as long as it draws views. As a society you had years of fun with selling people on the Bigfoot myth. ;) Thats nothing new either.

- Also, sorry for the 'merica bashing, but I actually live in a country that doesnt start wars, or kills other humans for revenge, so its just easier to give those examples - with american (news) stories. Everyone knows them and people can relate.

edit: This (the grotesque evil stuff is mainly out there for catharsis purposes, and because people are interested in those stories, while other "bad" stuff is seen as strangely normal in our societies) touches on a concept called "The banality of evil". Hannah Arendt (public intellectual) famously disected in the 1960s - if you want to read up on it: https://aeon.co/ideas/what-did-hannah-arendt-really-mean-by-the-banality-of-evil

Once you come to the conclusion, that the potential for "evil" is actually all around you, as is the potential for good - the notion of "some people being categorically so - without the propensity to change, or the impact of the situation (as in predetermined)" becomes actually quite scary. As in - it could even be someone you know.

And we are better off to drive those "monster" narratives, so people have definite social guidelines. And go for integration efforts on everyone else.

But the difficult questions of there being such a thing as good and bad, doesnt take place at the "those are the social outcast monsters for your late night enjoyment" level. They usually take place in your every day life. Which is why "I know - those are the bad people!" is such a cop out.

Which is also, why everyone in here avoided to touch on any political, societal or economic problems - because those are hot issues. (Its not decided yet.)

Which is also why law, and public opinion, are distinctly different things on purpose. And also why we as western societies have stoped using good and bad as guidelines for any public action. Its just that not everyone has caught up yet.

(Moral outrage can drive social movements, which can drive political action, but thats a process, that has you specifically not setting up witchhunts on day two of the thing catching traction. Its almost like, people thought about that... Or did that in the past.)
 
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LizzieNya

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I believe we're all "bad" in some way shape or form on the inside. How one chooses to present themselves shows if someone is a "good" or "bad" person.
 

spotanjo3

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Are "good people" "good" by personal choice? Did they make the right decisions growing up? Were they lucky enough to be born into a loving family? Were they lucky enough not to suffer from mental illness? Were they lucky enough to have enough food on the table? Were they blessed with altruistic genes?

EDIT: As I posted on the second page

Huh ? Thats your belief!

To my understanding, we are all corrupted and we are not perfect.
 

Iamapirate

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I don't think people are wholly good or evil. Even Hitler himself was a vegetarian and a dog person.

I think some people might be more inclined towards evil (genetically, environmentally or a combination of the two) but I generally think most people have a capacity for good and evil.
 
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Alexander1970

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All human beings came and come "neutral" to this world.Should one think so...

The NINE months in Mama´s belly "shape" this innocent,little creatures into whatever Mama want (or maybe NOT):

- Smartphone Junkies
- Drug Dealers
- Alcoholics
- mentally "unstable" people
- Incureable creatures
- ruthless Killers
- (you can go on with the list if you want......)

BUT ALSO:

- Music Lovers
- Food "wizards"
- people who cares about others
- empathetic Characters
- Intellectual "masters"
- sporty Ones
- (again you can go on with the list...)


GOOD or BAD people ? You always get what you make of it.:)
 

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