Charlottesville killer James Fields found guilty of all charges, faces six life sentences

Whole lotta love · Dec 9, 2018

Subtle Demise said:
Nazis or modern neo nazis? Modern neo nazis are already very niche, and even fewer of those actually act out their delusions.

I don't see the point of drawing a distinction between "Nazi's" and "Neo-Nazi's". They have the same ideologies and end goals. There would be no distinction between the two had Germany succeeded in WW2.

Why are you evading the question? Even if we do go with your arbitrary neo-nazi distinction, you should answer.

Subtle Demise said:
It's actually kind of funny, groups like ANTIFA keep drawing attention to these fringe groups and actually giving them more power lol.

FWIW, Anti-fascists have been an effective force disempowering white supremacists, at least according to Richard Spencer.

Richard Spencer cites anti-fascists at the reason he can no longer hold successful college tours.

Antifa is winning

Anti-fascists near me outted a GOP state senate candidate as a white supremacist and forced him to drop out of the race. They literally prevented a fascist from taking power. If that's not effective activism I don't know what is.

Glyptofane · Dec 9, 2018

Subtle Demise said:
Nazis or modern neo nazis? Modern neo nazis are already very niche, and even fewer of those actually act out their delusions. It's actually kind of funny, groups like ANTIFA keep drawing attention to these fringe groups and actually giving them more power lol.

Either way, his answers to your questions appear imply yes, only whites must be stripped of free speech and prosecuted for an ever broadening definition of hate speech.

Subtle Demise · Dec 9, 2018

Whole lotta love said:
I don't see the point of drawing a distinction between "Nazi's" and "Neo-Nazi's". They have the same ideologies and end goals. There would be no distinction between the two had Germany succeeded in WW2.

Why are you evading the question? Even if we do go with your arbitrary neo-nazi distinction, you should answer.

I don't think I've evaded anything. I don't have any figures for you. The distinction matters because the Nazis in Germany actually gained political power and killed millions, whereas modern nazis amount to little more than angry rednecks without the balls to actually follow through.

Whole lotta love · Dec 9, 2018

Glyptofane said:
Either way, his answers to your questions appear imply yes, only whites must be stripped of free speech and prosecuted for an ever broadening definition of hate speech.

Most white people aren't calling for ethnic cleansing.

Subtle Demise said:
I don't think I've evaded anything. I don't have any figures for you.

White supremacists are currently working to gain power, just like the Nazi's in Germany in the 20's and 30's while the liberals let them.

But sure, let's talk about contemporary white supremacy.

Subtle Demise said:
The distinction matters because the Nazis in Germany actually gained political power and killed millions, whereas modern nazis amount to little more than angry rednecks without the balls to actually follow through.

Yea... they never follow through.

Xzi · Dec 9, 2018

Glyptofane said:
Either way, his answers to your questions appear imply yes, only whites must be stripped of free speech and prosecuted for an ever broadening definition of hate speech.

Only when it comes to whites with a victim complex. The rest of us don't feel oppressed by the fact that we have to act civil toward everyone while expressing our views in public.

guicrith · Dec 9, 2018

Xzi said:
Only when it comes to whites with a victim complex. The rest of us don't feel oppressed by the fact that we have to act civil toward everyone while expressing our views in public.

Sadly I think Glyptofane is right, being civil is important, but its gone beyond "just dont be mean" now, saying you think its OK to dress up as a black character for Halloween will get you a hate mob for being "racist", playing a role in a movie without having the same "gender identity" as the character in real life will get you called a "transphobe" and wanting race not to be a factor in college admissions is "oppressing minoritys".

Alot of people think "diversity" has gone too far, me included, without advocating for a white ethnostate, genocide or killing people like the wacko that got convicted.

It should also be OK to hate someones religion, I hate all religions because I think they promote apathy and stupidity, just because you hate what someone believes doesnt mean you hate them or want to insult or punish them for their beliefs.

I believe in simple equality, everyone gets the same treatment, not equity where "oppressed" people get special treatment.

Xzi · Dec 9, 2018

guicrith said:
Sadly I think Glyptofane is right, being civil is important, but its gone beyond "just dont be mean" now, saying you think its OK to dress up as a black character for Halloween will get you a hate mob for being "racist", playing a role in a movie without having the same "gender identity" as the character in real life will get you called a "transphobe" and wanting race not to be a factor in college admissions is "oppressing minoritys".

Alot of people think "diversity" has gone too far, me included, without advocating for a white ethnostate, genocide or killing people like the wacko that got convicted.

What you're talking about is PC culture, and I agree it's gone too far when comedians have to apologize for tweets made a decade ago. At the same time, people need to realize that sexism and racism have always been prevalent in parts of this country to this very day, so it's not surprising to see some hypersensitivity to those behaviors as society progresses. Just look at Whole lotta love's post for reasons why we always have to be on guard in order to keep this country from sliding backwards into absolute ignorance and bigotry toward anyone who isn't exactly like us.

SG854 · Dec 9, 2018

Xzi said:
What you're talking about is PC culture, and I agree it's gone too far when comedians have to apologize for tweets made a decade ago. At the same time, people need to realize that sexism and racism have always been prevalent in parts of this country to this very day, so it's not surprising to see some hypersensitivity to those behaviors as society progresses. Just look at Whole lotta love's post for reasons why we always have to be on guard in order to keep this country from sliding backwards into absolute ignorance and bigotry toward anyone who isn't exactly like us.

Sexism and Racism will always be around and will never go away. It’s an impossible and pointless task to eradicate it completely. You’ll never succeed. You’ll eventually get to a point of diminishing returns.

What’s a more important question to ask is are systemic disadvantages explained by racism/sexism or something else.

Xzi · Dec 9, 2018

SG854 said:
Sexism and Racism will always be around and will never go away. It’s an impossible and pointless task to eradicate it completely. You’ll never succeed. You’ll eventually get to a point of diminishing returns.

I'm not suggesting we try to eradicate it completely, only that we keep the mouth breathers down in the cellar, so to speak. Open racism/sexism should be shamed and mocked, and most of all we need to reject any racism and sexism from our leaders and politicians going forward. It's very easy to normalize those behaviors otherwise.

SG854 said:
What’s a more important question to ask is are systemic disadvantages explained by racism/sexism or something else.

There are obvious systemic issues when it comes to race and/or gender, just look at the law's distinction between cocaine and crack. Or take for instance the black security guard who stopped a mass shooting and then was killed by police the second they arrived. Not a peep from the NRA, an organization which has always failed to stand up for minority gun rights. We have a lot of sweeping justice system reforms which need to happen, but as long as one of two major political parties refuses to admit that there's a problem, progress is largely stonewalled.

SG854 · Dec 9, 2018

Xzi said:
I'm not suggesting we try to eradicate it completely, only that we keep the mouth breathers down in the cellar, so to speak. Open racism/sexism should be shamed and mocked, and most of all we need to reject any racism and sexism from our leaders and politicians going forward. It's very easy to normalize those behaviors otherwise.

There are obvious systemic issues when it comes to race and/or gender, just look at the law's distinction between cocaine and crack. Or take for instance the black security guard who stopped a mass shooting and then was killed by police the second they arrived. Not a peep from the NRA, an organization which has always failed to stand up for minority gun rights. We have a lot of sweeping justice system reforms which need to happen, but as long as one of two major political parties refuses to admit that there's a problem, progress is largely stonewalled.

The crack cocain has an alternate explanation that isn’t racist.

The strict drug laws were heavily pushed by the black Caucasus because they said it was destroying black families. You can point to Nixon but Black leaders were also involved.

If crack cocain is racist because majority that are busted are Black, then methamphetamine is racist against Hispanics and Whites, since the same amount of Meth in possession gives you identical prison sentences as crack, which only 2% of blacks are busted for.

Its 54% white, 39% Hispanic, 2% black in prison for meth. Nearly the same amount of people in prison for crack are in prison for meth. About 5,000.

Xzi · Dec 9, 2018

SG854 said:
The crack cocain has an alternate explanation that isn’t racist.

Uh huh.

SG854 said:
The strict drug laws were heavily pushed by the black Caucasus because they said it was destroying black families. You can point to Nixon but Black leaders were also involved.

Getting a token black person to sign off on something is not the same as widespread support among the black community. It used to be Jesse Jackson, and now it's apparently Kanye or someone equally ridiculous.

SG854 said:
Its 54% white, 39% Hispanic, 2% black in prison for meth. Nearly the same amount of people in prison for crack are in prison for meth. About 5,000.

It's a disproportionate amount of whites and Hispanics that use and make meth. Roughly the same amount of cocaine/crack use across races, same with marijuana AFAIK. A disproportionate amount of minorities are arrested for those drugs, however.

smf · Dec 9, 2018

Subtle Demise said:
Are neo nazis any different than the groups that originated the "kill whitey" phrase?

No, of course not.

Subtle Demise said:
Again, free speech needs to be protected because it's still the most effective weapon against oppressive regimes and special interest groups who want to give themselves more rights than others because things exist in the world tbat hurt their feelings.

And you should have that right. But I fail to see how stopping what the neo-nazi's is doing would impact that. If you can't see the difference then that would point to a lack of education.

Subtle Demise said:
I'll fight to the death about it if necessary.

Well that would solve the problem. Your attitude stinks, it's either misguided or driven by your desire to abuse free speech. Exactly the two types of people who don't deserve free speech, there are responsibilities that go along with freedoms.

Subtle Demise said:
Nazis or modern neo nazis? Modern neo nazis are already very niche, and even fewer of those actually act out their delusions. It's actually kind of funny, groups like ANTIFA keep drawing attention to these fringe groups and actually giving them more power lol.

Try replacing ANTIFA with Trump and neo nazis with Muslims. If the american position is white neo nazis shouldn't be judged poorly by the acts of a minority that share their views, but people from certain "muslim" countries should have their travel banned because allowing any of them is too dangerous, then that sounds kinda racist.

Would you fight to the death to protect the free speech of people who wanted to march to promote paedophilia and the removal of laws that prevent it?

And the right of free speech of Harvey Weinstein when he propositioned actresses? It doesn't look like many are bothered about that.

Subtle Demise · Dec 9, 2018

Whole lotta love said:
Most white people aren't calling for ethnic cleansing.

You're right! We're not. Again, it's a fringe minority, and those examples are a minority of that minority. They probably would have done the same crime even if race wasn't a motivating factor.

Xzi said:
Only when it comes to whites with a victim complex. The rest of us don't feel oppressed by the fact that we have to act civil toward everyone while expressing our views in public.

Why does anyone have to be civil to anyone else? State-mandated kindness causes more harm than good. It would be far from sincere as well, and breed nore resentment and violent acts, since they can no longer vent with words their opinions, however misguided they may be.

smf said:
Well that would solve the problem. Your attitude stinks, it's either misguided or driven by your desire to abuse free speech.

Wishing death on someone for a differing opinion lol. If you think I agree with nazis on anything, then you are mistaken. They oppose free speech as much as antifa on the other side. Also, rights by their nature are not something that can be abused. They are not privileges that can be taken away, despite governments around the world insisting they can do so. Rights are all-encompassing. All speech is protected speech.

So I'm wondering something, why don't antifa ever go protest actual Klan and skinhead rallies? Instead they impede traffic and harass people who want nothing to do with either side. It's little wonder people have stated their desire to run them over honestly. I wish they would go protest a neo nazi rally so that both sides can cut each other down before either one does real harm to society.

Xzi · Dec 9, 2018

Subtle Demise said:
Why does anyone have to be civil to anyone else? State-mandated kindness causes more harm than good. It would be far from sincere as well, and breed nore resentment and violent acts, since they can no longer vent with words their opinions, however misguided they may be.

I didn't say anything about state-mandated. It should be pretty obvious why we have to remain civil to one another, though, the fabric of society unravels otherwise. People slowly stop providing goods and services for others. It is called a "civilization" for a reason, and not "group of retard trolls that run in circles bashing each other on the head with rocks." Of course, it has become clear in recent years that some people in this country do prefer the latter, and for them I think we should provide free plane tickets to Russia.

Subtle Demise · Dec 9, 2018

Xzi said:
I didn't say anything about state-mandated. It should be pretty obvious why we have to remain civil to one another, though, the fabric of society unravels otherwise. People slowly stop providing goods and services for others. It is called a "civilization" for a reason, and not "group of retard trolls that run in circles bashing each other on the head with rocks." Of course, it has become clear in recent years that some people in this country do prefer the latter, and for them I think we should provide free plane tickets to Russia.

Well, some people are rude, but most aren't. I don't see society falling apart because of a few bad apples. If anything is going to cause the collapse of American civilization, it's the unsustainable welfare state, shocking national debt, the militarization of the police due to the us vs. them mentality that keeps being pushed by politicians and the media. This in turn brings extremists from all over the political spectrum, while I'm sitting here as a centrist watching it all crumble down. Trying to bring some logic and a liberty-focused mindset and apparently I'm the extremist lol. Oh well, might be fun watching it burn.

FAST6191 · Dec 9, 2018

I find it immensely disconcerting that "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" and the spirit of https://joshhighland.com/2007/08/28/mentors-last-words-the-hacker-manifesto/ are now such radical positions, especially on a place like this, that it needs to be continually justified.

smf · Dec 9, 2018

Subtle Demise said:
Why does anyone have to be civil to anyone else? State-mandated kindness causes more harm than good. It would be far from sincere as well, and breed nore resentment and violent acts, since they can no longer vent with words their opinions, however misguided they may be.

Nobody said anything about kindness. You can hate who you want, but you shouldn't be able to run a group that promotes that whites are superior.

You're incorrectly assuming that venting has no negative consequences.

Subtle Demise said:
Wishing death on someone for a differing opinion lol.

I didn't. You volunteered and I don't have the power to stop you. I was merely pointing out that if all people who think free speech should be able to violate the constitution, fought to the death, then that would solve that problem.

Subtle Demise said:
All speech is protected speech.

No, it's not.

"Protected speech means speech that is protected from government regulation and censorship, depending upon the nature of the speech and the nature of regulation."

Subtle Demise said:
It's little wonder people have stated their desire to run them over honestly.

So you think fields was justified. Makes sense.

Subtle Demise · Dec 9, 2018

smf said:
Nobody said anything about kindness. You can hate who you want, but you shouldn't be able to run a group that promotes that whites are superior.

You're incorrectly assuming that venting has no negative consequences.

Of course there should be consequences, but not from the government as you suggest should happen. If someone calls me a racial slur, their consequence from me is I can call them one back, or I go tell friends and family how racist they are, things of that nature. You can't make it illegal to use slurs.

smf said:
No, it's not.

"Protected speech means speech that is protected from government regulation and censorship, depending upon the nature of the speech and the nature of regulation."

Not sure where that quote comes from, but the Constitution simply says "freedom of speech" that's it. It's broad on purpose, to limit government regulation as much as possible. If government is making regulations against speech, it is acting against the Constitution. Period.

smf said:
you think fields was justified. Makes sense.

The only time killing is justified is in defense of yourself or someone else. I was referring to comments of a video I saw of antifa members blocking traffic of people who have nothing to do with white supremacy, and many of them were saying they would floor the gas or similar. Should those people be imprisoned for writing that? Again I'll ask, why don't antifa go protest actual Klan rallies? Why do they harass random passersby simply for being white?

Glyptofane · Dec 10, 2018

Too much garbage to quote, but what are neo-nazis doing that is so offensive really. They aren't even identifying with the term you pinkos have ascribed them to btw, I just use it for your sake of understanding.

I think this loser should have got manslaughter charges at most. I wouldn't be caught dead at one of these trap events, but to me, the evidence seems clear he was not motivated to murder anyone directly, just freaked the hell out, floored, and some cow had a heart attack. Antifa should be held equally accountable for events that day.

Xzi · Dec 10, 2018

Glyptofane said:
Too much garbage to quote, but what are neo-nazis doing that is so offensive really.

Wow. Other than killing people and using terrorist tactics to influence our politics, nothing I suppose.

Glyptofane said:
They aren't even identifying with the term you pinkos have ascribed them to btw, I just use it for your sake of understanding.

Well we certainly need to be sensitive to how each bigoted narcissist self-identifies. :rolleyes:

Glyptofane said:
I think this loser should have got manslaughter charges at most. I wouldn't be caught dead at one of these trap events, but to me, the evidence seems clear he was not motivated to murder anyone directly, just freaked the hell out, floored, and some cow had a heart attack. Antifa should be held equally accountable for events that day.

People who had nothing to do with the murder should be held equally accountable for the murder? Yeah that's...not the way the law works.

And it doesn't matter in the least what his intent was, he plowed into a crowd of pedestrians with a car. When that happens, the best case scenario is that only one person dies. Several more were injured of course. Idiots prone to randomly panicking shouldn't ever get behind the wheel of a car in the first place.

Charlottesville killer James Fields found guilty of all charges, faces six life sentences

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