Hacking Question Big N has killed TX ?

bundat · Dec 8, 2018

Dust2dust said:
I don't know why, I've got the Ironic song from Alanis Morissette floating in my head now. To their defense, one of the sites is dead now (just checked). But the other one is very much alive (that dark place).

I mean, the rules are there to prevent GBATemp getting a DMCA hit... can't get DMCA'd for linking to the official domain.

Cortexfou · Dec 8, 2018

Essasetic said:
When the forums are officially launched a new version of SX OS will come out.

maybe it's the opposite

bandithedoge · Dec 11, 2018

Freezerbomb said:
The brick code was to prevent crackers from cracking the DRM. It was a security system to protect the CFW. It doesn't affect users at all. It was removed because of the bad press. End of story. There was no malicious intent. Unlike the dude who made pikabricker...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

TX is one of the original console hackers lol.

They put hardcore DRM in a tool that literally enables piracy on the console. Pretty ironic. Bricking consoles is not a good thing, believe me. If a big AAA company started to include a DRM that breaks your computer, they'd be drowning in lawsuits. But even ignoring all of that, the brick code that TX included was pretty likely to activate on its own, essentially fucking over innocent users. I don't care it it's gone or not. Even if they really removed it, my respect and trust towards TX has dropped drastically. I don't want to pay 30 bucks for a closed-source piece of homebrew that has the ability to brick my console. This is one of the things that ruin many scenes.

And no, they are in no way "original". ReSwitched and fail0verflow basically discovered the exploit, while TX just used it in their shitty commercial product.

comput3rus3r · Dec 11, 2018

Dust2dust said:
I don't know why, I've got the Ironic song from Alanis Morissette floating in my head now. To their defense, one of the sites is dead now (just checked). But the other one is very much alive (that dark place).

The only thing Ironic about that song is that it doesn't give a single example of what irony is.

Deleted User · Dec 11, 2018

If you really think about it. Backing up your own carts to .xci can (and should) be done without piracy. How are you all getting these .nsp files you use on other "free" CFWs?

.... just saying.

SX OS is the only CFW you can use where you can dump your own cartridge and play it right away without converting it to some other format, or hang out on some discord channel waiting for your warez copies of these games.... or steal from from CDN, or whatever your preference is. So, contrary to the comments above, SX OS is really the best way to use CFW if you are legitimately interested in only playing backup copies of the games you own.

bandithedoge · Dec 11, 2018

Game_Over_Tom said:
If you really think about it. Backing up your own carts to .xci can (and should) be done without piracy. How are you all getting these .nsp files you use on other "free" CFWs?

.... just saying.

SX OS is the only CFW you can use where you can dump your own cartridge and play it right away without converting it to some other format, or hang out on some discord channel waiting for your warez copies of these games.... or steal from from CDN, or whatever your preference is. So, contrary to the comments above, SX OS is really the best way to use CFW if you are legitimately interested in only playing backup copies of the games you own.

What the hell man.

You can dump cartridges on any CFW using a free and opensource tool (which was stolen by TX) and convert the .xci to a .nsp with a free and opensource converter, which can be installed with yet another free and opensource tool (that was also stolen by TX).

Deleted User · Dec 11, 2018

bandithedoge said:
What the hell man.

You can dump cartridges on any CFW using a free and opensource tool (which was stolen by TX) and convert the .xci to a .nsp with a free and opensource converter, which can be installed with yet another free and opensource tool (that was also stolen by TX).

You must hang out here a lot.

proper .xci backups with certs are much safer. Much easier to work with too.

To each their own.

I'm not going to debate about it. Try not to poke your finger at SX OS claiming it's the CFW for piracy. My point is that it's actually the safest for people who are NOT pirates.

Freezerbomb · Dec 11, 2018

bandithedoge said:
\If a big AAA company started to include a DRM that breaks your computer, they'd be drowning in lawsuits.]

Cable box companies do this. I would link you to an example, but cable companies are also good at removing anything about hacking cable boxes from the internet.

Reecey · Dec 11, 2018

bandithedoge said:
What the hell man.

You can dump cartridges on any CFW using a free and opensource tool (which was stolen by TX) and convert the .xci to a .nsp with a free and opensource converter, which can be installed with yet another free and opensource tool (that was also stolen by TX).

game over is correct there is a huge difference also converting an original xci with an original certificate to nsp takes all that away and then your once again left with a basic nsp with much more chance of a ban going online with it. Backing up your gamecard to sd/usb cannot get any better for online safety I have been doing it now since sxos began with the certificate update and I have never received a ban but I would never consider going online with an installed nsp let alone a converted one.

Draxzelex · Dec 11, 2018

Game_Over_Tom said:
If you really think about it. Backing up your own carts to .xci can (and should) be done without piracy. How are you all getting these .nsp files you use on other "free" CFWs?

.... just saying.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/9h7nrd/how_game_sharing_works/

.... just saying.

V-Temp · Dec 11, 2018

Game_Over_Tom said:
If you really think about it. Backing up your own carts to .xci can (and should) be done without piracy. How are you all getting these .nsp files you use on other "free" CFWs?

.... just saying.

SX OS is the only CFW you can use where you can dump your own cartridge and play it right away without converting it to some other format, or hang out on some discord channel waiting for your warez copies of these games.... or steal from from CDN, or whatever your preference is. So, contrary to the comments above, SX OS is really the best way to use CFW if you are legitimately interested in only playing backup copies of the games you own.

This reads like an ad.

OrangeFlavored · Dec 11, 2018

bandithedoge said:
They put hardcore DRM in a tool that literally enables piracy on the console. Pretty ironic. Bricking consoles is not a good thing, believe me. If a big AAA company started to include a DRM that breaks your computer, they'd be drowning in lawsuits. But even ignoring all of that, the brick code that TX included was pretty likely to activate on its own, essentially fucking over innocent users. I don't care it it's gone or not. Even if they really removed it, my respect and trust towards TX has dropped drastically. I don't want to pay 30 bucks for a closed-source piece of homebrew that has the ability to brick my console. This is one of the things that ruin many scenes.

And no, they are in no way "original". ReSwitched and fail0verflow basically discovered the exploit, while TX just used it in their shitty commercial product.

I mean I wouldn't say it's any more strange for a piracy company to make use of DRM than some other company. If anything you could argue that they need it even more. Their target market are pirates! Of course everybody is going to pirate the thing if they don't do that! Whatever you think of the concept of DRM, fact remains that these guys are a business and I don't think SX could really exist as a product without some kind of protection like this.

Not really trying to defend them or take sides here, but just seen way too many "they're enabling piracy so they should encourage piracy of their own software too!" type comments which don't make a hell of a lot of logical sense to me. As far as the brick code I do agree that was kind of shortsighted of them. Regardless of how likely it was to trigger by mistake or whether this has actually happened or not, the whole Gateway debacle was still fresh enough in everyone's mind that they should have known better than to bait that kind of controversy around their product, and it doesn't seem like it really did a damn thing to stop any serious reverse engineering attempts either.

Essasetic · Dec 11, 2018

Well... This thread turned into (somehow) even more of a shithole than it already was.

Erol · Dec 12, 2018

bandithedoge said:
They put hardcore DRM in a tool that literally enables piracy on the console. Pretty ironic. Bricking consoles is not a good thing, believe me. If a big AAA company started to include a DRM that breaks your computer, they'd be drowning in lawsuits. But even ignoring all of that, the brick code that TX included was pretty likely to activate on its own, essentially fucking over innocent users. I don't care it it's gone or not. Even if they really removed it, my respect and trust towards TX has dropped drastically. I don't want to pay 30 bucks for a closed-source piece of homebrew that has the ability to brick my console. This is one of the things that ruin many scenes.

how many consoles actually got bricked by SX?

Deleted User · Dec 12, 2018

Erol said:
how many consoles actually got bricked by SX?

None.

It's all scene drama. Once the boot.dat was unpacked and that code was visible. Everyone panicked and the TX Hate Train rolled out of the station. It's still chugging along today.

If you watch this thread closely it will make another appearance soon.

VampireOniX · Dec 12, 2018

Game_Over_Tom said:
None.

It's all scene drama. Once the boot.dat was unpacked and that code was visible. Everyone panicked and the TX Hate Train rolled out of the station. It's still chugging along today.

If you watch this thread closely it will make another appearance soon.

Actually... Wrong. There were a few peeps who actually did try to break the DRM and bricked their switches. It was only like 3 or 4 tho.

Falo · Dec 12, 2018

The Brick code has nothing to do with the DRM or trying to break it.

That piece of code was included in every single crypto function (the boot.dat has more then 200 of these) and it activates when the CPU execution speed is slower then expected (a common tactic to detect debuggers) but on a switch, there are 1000's of reasons why a CPU could be a little bit slower on boot (like Nand/SD card fragmentation).

So saying it is impossible to trigger on a normal user is bs.

Side Note: that code was never removed, just the nand-locking part of it was, so if you boot SX OS into a Blackscreen, then you did trigger the brick code.

Deleted User · Dec 12, 2018

That's cool. I still haven't seen a single case outside of the DRM situation.

Go ahead and panic anyway.

*choo choo! All aboard!

V-Temp · Dec 12, 2018

Game_Over_Tom said:
That's cool. I still haven't seen a single case outside of the DRM situation.

Go ahead and panic anyway.

*choo choo! All aboard!

I mean, the fact of the matter is that it is indeed true. There was (and well still is, just defanged) brickcode included and it *could* have triggered at any moment because the implementation was frankly retarded if the intent was to only stop debuggers. There is a definite short-sightedness and "profits first" sort of logic in putting the bricker logic tied to CPU execution.

There are many finitely small but finitely greater than zero ways for a Switch to execute slower than expected as if it were being debugged that could have triggered the brick.

Hexkyz having found it and exposed it by triggering it and bricking his Switch was the only reason this garbage was removed before it *did* brick someone unrelated to cracking it. The problem with finitely small but finitely non-zero probability is that no matter how small, it will inevitably trigger and it results in the scenario of Gateway bricking because some DRM got proced randomly.

Obfuscation through bricking isn't really obfuscation. It's just a more nefarious version of obfuscation through obscurity, its not effective and it underlies an inability to properly obfuscate through secure operations than anything else. And, ultimately, it didn't actually achieve anything. Hexkyz cracked it all open anyway in short order.

Also if we want to be pedantic, as @Falo notes, any one who has triggered the black boot on SX (which is definitely not 0 people) has actually run through the bricker. They're just lucky the bricker had already been neutered by then.

bandithedoge · Dec 12, 2018

I don't care if it actually triggered for normal people or if it was removed. The fact that they deliberately included brick code is an absolute asshole move which makes my trust toward them drop to 0.

Hacking Question Big N has killed TX ?

¿

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted User

Guest

Well-Known Member

Deleted User

Guest

Likes tacos

Mario 64 (favorite game of all time)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

General Spectator

Well-Known Member

Deleted User

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted User

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Popular threads in this forum