The benefits of Brexit - the future of the United Kingdom

Nightwish · Nov 17, 2018

Potential good things about Brexit:

Freedom to clamp down on the City's financial speculation nonsense
Freedom to reverse disastrous privatizations
Freedom to float the currency
Freedom to focus on employment and growth instead of non-existent inflation
Ability to focus on work that is needed with the full capacity of a state, instead of leaving infrastructure to rot like a Genovese bridge for the good of meaningless debt ratios
Freedom to have capital controls against those who live off the state
Ability to do a Japan and stop financing debt peddlers; hell, stop issuing debt all together
Not forced to sign agreements like CETA that force the state to use it's power against its citizens
Freedom to have independence in essential necessities like food. Not steel, that's just dumb

It's not hard to do better than the Euroland. In fact, congratulations, you already do. Of course, if even your opposition is clueless and loves austerity as much as Osborne, you're going to fail, so start questioning economic dogma that doesn't fit the real world.

JoeBloggs777 · Nov 17, 2018

kumikochan said:
It's not about you gee. Your wife who wasn't from Europe had less rights and not you. That is perfectly fine !!! Everybody in the union can freely travel to union countries. So ofcourse a member from the union is gonna have automatically more rights then your wife who isn't from the union. That is perfectly fair !!! We'll see how that will work out for you not being a citizen of the union anymore. Ey atleast i can travel visa free to 165 countries over the world and counting One of the many benefits of a union citizen

no your wrong it is about me, you as a EU citizen cannot excerise your treaty rights in your own country. I'm the one who's sponsors my wife, I'm the one who has to meet the minimum financial requirement not my wife.

EU members have more rights than my wife and more rights than me, i don't see how you can say i have the same rights.

the following are facts, Family permits are treaty as a priority over British visa applcations, a British citizen has to meet the minimum financial requirement a EU citizen does not. A EU citizen has a virtual legal right to a Family permit while a british citizen has to prove their relationship is genuine. the partner of a EU citizen has the right to work, while if your partner came to the UK on a fiancee they cant work until they have FLR.

I'll not start about EU citizens or their family members claiming benefits in the UK, or claiming benefits for their kids back in thier own EU country.

under EU law a minor is someone who is under 21, under UK law a minor is someone under 18. so if your partner had kids already EU citizens are at an advantage there to.

how fair is it that a family member of a EU citizen can freely work and claim benefits in their name, while if your British, your partner cannot claim benefits in their own name til they have ILR (at least 5 years now)

I'll quickly mention the poor NON EU workers who cant claim most benefits until they have ILR. thats at least 5 years of paying taxes and getting nothing back or worse threatened with deportation if you do.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/heart-doctor-nurse-wife-given-13348027

so the Uk gov, Brussels, UK and EU courts have done nothing to sort this out, so people like me voted out.

Burai-ha · Nov 17, 2018

kumikochan said:
Ey atleast i can travel visa free to 165 countries over the world and counting One of the many benefits of a union citizen

What? The European Union doesn't issue passports, that's up to the countries.
A French citizen has a stronger passport than a Belgian citizen for example, despite both countries being part of the Union.

kumikochan · Nov 17, 2018

Burai-ha said:
What? The European Union doesn't issue passports, that's up to the countries.
A French citizen has a stronger passport than a Belgian citizen for example, despite both countries being part of the Union.

a belgian citizen can travel visa free to around 165 countries over the world, i never said anything about a passport but was talking about travelling visa free. French people can visit 184 countries and belgian people can visit 185 countries visa free. Just looked it up so how is that more then a Belgian citizen can ?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

JoeBloggs777 said:
no your wrong it is about me, you as a EU citizen cannot excerise your treaty rights in your own country. I'm the one who's sponsors my wife, I'm the one who has to meet the minimum financial requirement not my wife.

EU members have more rights than my wife and more rights than me, i don't see how you can say i have the same rights.

the following are facts, Family permits are treaty as a priority over British visa applcations, a British citizen has to meet the minimum financial requirement a EU citizen does not. A EU citizen has a virtual legal right to a Family permit while a british citizen has to prove their relationship is genuine. the partner of a EU citizen has the right to work, while if your partner came to the UK on a fiancee they cant work until they have FLR.

I'll not start about EU citizens or their family members claiming benefits in the UK, or claiming benefits for their kids back in thier own EU country.

under EU law a minor is someone who is under 21, under UK law a minor is someone under 18. so if your partner had kids already EU citizens are at an advantage there to.

how fair is it that a family member of a EU citizen can freely work and claim benefits in their name, while if your British, your partner cannot claim benefits in their own name til they have ILR (at least 5 years now)

I'll quickly mention the poor NON EU workers who cant claim most benefits until they have ILR. thats at least 5 years of paying taxes and getting nothing back or worse threatened with deportation if you do.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/heart-doctor-nurse-wife-given-13348027

so the Uk gov, Brussels, UK and EU courts have done nothing to sort this out, so people like me voted out.

i find that all quite fair, i think it's just you being salty having to deal with strict laws when it comes to people living outside of the union

Burai-ha · Nov 17, 2018

kumikochan said:
a belgian citizen can travel visa free to around 165 countries over the world, i never said anything about a passport but was talking about travelling visa free. French people can visit 184 countries and belgian people can visit 185 countries visa free. Just looked it up so how is that more then a Belgian citizen can ?

Well, visa free travelling is based on reciprocal agreements between different countries. The european union itself cannot make agreements on behalf of every european country.
Maybe I made a mistake about France and Belgium, but that was not my point. If a Belgian citizen can travel visa free in more countries than a french citizen, what does being in the union have to do with that?
Each country has its own agreements. Greece has less, Belgium and France have more, for example.

kumikochan · Nov 17, 2018

Burai-ha said:
Well, visa free travelling is based on reciprocal agreements between different countries. The european union itself cannot make agreements on behalf of every european country.
Maybe I made a mistake about France and Belgium, but that was not my point. If a Belgian citizen can travel visa free in more countries than a french citizen, what does being in the union have to do with that?
Each country has its agreements. Greece has less, Belgium and France have more, for example.

Most union countries because of being in the union can travel visa free all over the world because of trade deals the union has with those countries so you automatically benefit from those deals the union has in place with those countries. Ofcourse it depends on certain countries having more deals then others with certain countries but the union has atleast deals with around 160 countries over the world so every union citizen can freely travel without a visa to those 160 countries. France and Belgium have extra deals so that's why you can visit 184 countries and i can do 185 but if we wouldn't be in the union that number would be way less. Travelling freely without a visa to 184/185 countries is a huge benefit wich i don't want to lose anytime soon.

Burai-ha · Nov 17, 2018

kumikochan said:
Most union countries because of being in the union can travel visa free all over the world because of trade deals the union has with those countries so you automatically benefit from those deals the union has in place with those countries. Ofcourse it depends on certain countries having more deals then others with certain countries but the union has atleast deals with around 160 countries over the world so every union citizen can freely travel without a visa to those 160 countries. France and Belgium have extra deals so that's why you can visit 184 countries and i can do 185 but if we wouldn't be in the union that number would be way less

I don't think the United Kingdom passport is going to become weaker, though. All those deals that the EU has probably won't be denied to the UK.
I think this is the main issue with passports, we will see how it's going to evolve: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...t-eu-commission-france-schengen-a8595991.html

kumikochan · Nov 17, 2018

Burai-ha said:
I don't think the United Kingdom passport is going to become weaker, though. All those deals that the EU has probably won't be denied to the UK.
I think this is the main issue with passports, we will see how it's going to evolve: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...t-eu-commission-france-schengen-a8595991.html

well the deal that the UK has with the union and got approved makes it so like the UK never even left the union. Not a lot has changed

JoeBloggs777 · Nov 17, 2018

kumikochan said:
a belgian citizen can travel visa free to around 165 countries over the world, i never said anything about a passport but was talking about travelling visa free. French people can visit 184 countries and belgian people can visit 185 countries visa free. Just looked it up so how is that more then a Belgian citizen can ?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

i find that all quite fair, i think it's just you being salty having to deal with strict laws when it comes to people living outside of the union

where's these strict laws when it comes to people living outside of the Union when their partner is a EU citizen, I think you don't know the meaning of the word fair.

I think you'll find a Brit can travel visa free to more countires than a Belgian citizen, nothing to do with being a EU citizen.

that reminds me when I went to Greece the Brits didn't even need to go thru immigration, they opened a door and let 100s of Brits thru , we just had to show the outside of the passport and everyone else had to go thru immigration.

kumikochan · Nov 17, 2018

JoeBloggs777 said:
where's these strict laws when it comes to people living outside of the Union when their partner is a EU citizen, I think you don't know the meaning of the word fair.

I think you'll find a Brit can travel visa free to more countires than a Belgian citizen, nothing to do with being a EU citizen.

that reminds me when I went to Greece the Brits didn't even need to go thru immigration, they opened a door and let 100s of Brits thru , we just had to show the outside of the passport and everyone else had to go thru immigration.

186, hmmmm doesn't sound that much more to me. Sure that will decline soon when the brexit finally happens

Like i already explained, out of those 186 countries 150 or so are thanks to deals the union has with certain countries. You basically leaving the union will decline that number by a lot and you'll have to strike new deals as a country outside of the union before you'll benefit of that again. Also you going to Greece had nothing to do with you being a brit but you being a Union member

JoeBloggs777 · Nov 17, 2018

kumikochan said:
186, hmmmm doesn't sound that much more to me. Sure that will decline soon when the brexit finally happens Like i already explained, out of those 186 countries 150 or so are thanks to deals the union has with certain countries. You basically leaving the union will decline that number by a lot and you'll have to strike new deals as a country outside of the union before you'll benefit of that again.

i doubt it, like I said no problem in Greece .
being a EU citizen doesn't get you any more benefits , citizenship thank god is out of the hands of the EU.

kumikochan · Nov 17, 2018

JoeBloggs777 said:
i doubt it, like I said no problem in Greece .
being a EU citizen doesn't get you any more benefits , citizenship thank god is out of the hands of the EU.

You're wrong, you're still a union member. You travelling freely to those countries is because you being a union member. As soon as you leave the union on that day it won't be that simple anymore

JoeBloggs777 · Nov 17, 2018

kumikochan said:
You're wrong, you're still a union member. You travelling freely to those countries is because you being a union member. As soon as you leave the union on that day it won't be that simple anymore

I doubt there are any countries I couldn't travel visa free to with my British passport once we leave the union. and anyway you need a visa for certain countires even if you are from a certain Eu country.

like the Brits need a visa for Tukey, I was going to book a holiday in Turkey but becuase of the lack of time I didn't bother and went to Spain instead.

Lucifer666 · Nov 17, 2018

brickmii82 said:
I'm gonna be flat out honest here. I think it's actually a great thing that you've chosen to leave the EU. The more I learn about it as an organization the less Im fond of it. It's like a bunch of countries faking friendliness in the interest of playing nice to create an aristocracy. It's a big ass political circle jerk. The UK will be fine. She's a tough lass and been around the block a time or two.

I was scrolling down while reading your post and was honestly waiting for the American flag. I can't tell if you're just uninformed, or if you actually know about the effects of being in the EU and are very, very evil for some reason.

The EU is not perfect but there are no viable reasons to leave, especially when EU membership is incredibly desirable to so many other countries out there. It has political and economic benefits to every member. Perhaps not enough even, but it's still something to work on rather than abandon. Claiming that leaving 'allows us to take control' over anything is incredibly stupid and arrogant. Farage and his idiots talk about leaving the EU analogously to gaining independence from an invading state, and it is a completely disrespectful comparison used to promote b******t propaganda. We entered willingly, got a bit bored and started dreaming 'bout the good old days that actually were not better. We are not inherently 'above' anything the EU is 'forcing' us to do. Sure we'll definitely survive, but we will also definitely be worse off because of an utterly senseless decision

JoeBloggs777 · Nov 17, 2018

Lucifer666 said:
We entered willingly,

no back in 1973 we voted to join the EEC not what we have now.

brickmii82 · Nov 18, 2018

Lucifer666 said:
I was scrolling down while reading your post and was honestly waiting for the American flag. I can't tell if you're just uninformed, or if you actually know about the effects of being in the EU and are very, very evil for some reason.

The EU is not perfect but there are no viable reasons to leave, especially when EU membership is incredibly desirable to so many other countries out there. It has political and economic benefits to every member. Perhaps not enough even, but it's still something to work on rather than abandon. Claiming that leaving 'allows us to take control' over anything is incredibly stupid and arrogant. Farage and his idiots talk about leaving the EU analogously to gaining independence from an invading state, and it is a completely disrespectful comparison used to promote b******t propaganda. We entered willingly, got a bit bored and started dreaming 'bout the good old days that actually were not better. We are not inherently 'above' anything the EU is 'forcing' us to do. Sure we'll definitely survive, but we will also definitely be worse off because of an utterly senseless decision

Evil or uninformed ... that leaves a great deal of room for a civil dialogue. I was gonna write a long post with links and counter-points, but after that, nah. For all that EU promise of equality, you sure threw out that American stereotype like it was just fine. But that's ok, enjoy your soapbox.

Lucifer666 · Nov 18, 2018

brickmii82 said:
I was gonna write a long post with links and counter-points

but you didn't. post I quoted was months back

brickmii82 said:
For all that EU promise of equality, you sure threw out that American stereotype like it was just fine.

There is no correlation between these things. Making a joke about someone from a country that operates as though the world is only comprised of its 50 states and nothing else not knowing about EU dynamics hardly constitutes a systematic human rights issue.

I am sorry you found my hot take on Americans and their understanding of how things work outside of the border offensive, it really was just banter and if you won't take the joke then I will heartily apologise.

Phenj · Nov 18, 2018

>Brexit
>Future of the UK

Choose one.

smf · Nov 18, 2018

Nightwish said:
It's not hard to do better than the Euroland. In fact, congratulations, you already do. Of course, if even your opposition is clueless and loves austerity as much as Osborne, you're going to fail, so start questioning economic dogma that doesn't fit the real world.

None of the things you list had anything to do with the EU & won't change after we leave, especially if the euro sceptics take over the government. Rees Mog becoming chancellor will make Osbourne look like a dream.

We live in such a divided country and it was only the EU forcing us to protect the interests of the minority. Without that stabilising influence we're going to have some real rocky times ahead of us. Rees Mog has said we'll be past that in about 50 years. The old leave voters who were scared by hate filled propaganda won't be alive to see it, leaving the young who mostly voted to remain the task of rejoining the EU.

Burai-ha said:
I don't think the United Kingdom passport is going to become weaker, though. All those deals that the EU has probably won't be denied to the UK.

It won't be the leaving the EU which will make it harder. It's the hostile environment for foreigners.

You can't expect to run a campaign of "stop foreigners coming here and abusing _OUR_ country" and then expect other countries to roll over.

I still don't get how they are going to reduce immigration without destroying the economy and our ability to do trade deals with other countries. India for example are really annoyed with us taking university fees for Indian students and then forcing them to leave the country on graduation day. That is one of the countries that leavers go on about as being important in the future. Expect huge numbers of Indian migrants coming here if we do a trade deal with them.

The UK economy has benefited hugely from immigrants and will suffer for their loss.

JoeBloggs777 said:
no back in 1973 we voted to join the EEC not what we have now.

Is it the EU forcing us to protect the environment or human rights which upset you? Or is it foreigners coming here and contributing to our economy?

JoeBloggs777 · Nov 18, 2018

smf said:
Is it the EU forcing us to protect the environment or human rights which upset you? Or is it foreigners coming here and contributing to our economy?

human rights, you mean the low lifes that May tried to deport but couldn't because of their 'human rights' yet these same courts do F*ck all for law abiding British citizens when it comes to their human rights and a right to a family life.

google 'spouse visa refused' where are these peoples human rights ? they have to rely on the British courts.

my wife was a 'foreigner' even thou shes a British citizen now, she contributed a lot paying the higher rate of tax working as a A&E doctor. Foreigners from out side the EU have to contribute to the economy as they can't claim most benefits until they have ILR. while EU foreigners can almost instantly and having possibily contributed little or even nothing.

The benefits of Brexit - the future of the United Kingdom

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

all the world needs is me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

all the world needs is me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Popular threads in this forum