‘Transgender’ Could Be Defined Out of Existence Under Trump Administration

SG854 · Oct 23, 2018

x65943 said:
Saying there is evidence does not make it exist. I have read into this way too much - like WAY TOO MUCH.

And just because something is a social construct, that doesn't mean it's easy to change. Consider that the career criminal and president were born essentially the same. But can you simply pray the crime away or make someone a functioning member of society just because his actions are learned? Of course not. Social conditioning is very strong and perhaps permanent in many cases. Just because something is learned behavior that doesn't make it possible to change. Think of wife beaters or pedophiles.

This doesn't make sense. Because isn't a common complaint among trans people that they are raised the opposite of what they actually feel. So if they are raised to match their sex at birth then wouldn't that be the default and wouldn't it be hard to turn transgender, since after all its hard to change how you are raised.

This would mean trans started acting trans by choice when they got older which contradicts that it was hard to change.
Or do you think trans were raised trans at birth which is why they act trans? That it's all a construct and there is nothing in the brain that affects this?

bi388 · Oct 23, 2018

TheArcuzHunter said:
Wait, what? sorry I don't understand that statement, *theorically* you can't control if you're gay or trans? Is that what you're saying?

Being trans is biological. You cannot control it, theres physical brain differences. So god made you born in a way that if you lived the way you want to, youd be 'sinning'.

Attacker3 · Oct 23, 2018

sarkwalvein said:
Well, being sincere is for the better.
I kind of read your post like it was a sarcastic comment, as if your were setting yourself on a pedestal.
My bad.

Nah don't worry about it man. Like, I'm not gonna start saying "Transgenders are evil and we gotta get rid of them!", but I'm also not gonna totally go along with something that's not actively helping them, and could be hurting them. If anything, that's being incredibly rude and disrespectful if you can't tell someone when they're doing something that's hurting them, or maybe not not hurting them, but not helping them in the way they think it is.

osm70 said:
OK, for the sake of the argument, let's assume these 2 things:

1. God exists

2. I am gay or trans or non-binary or whatever

Are you saying God will punish me for something I have no control of? If so, he's an asshole and I see no reason to obey him.

The idea of a God is to impose morals onto a populace through force. While there are objective morals, people made religions to enforce subjective ones as well. I am not sure about a god, but you don't have to worry about what you're doing is immoral objectively. You're not hurting anyone, so you should be fine. But, if a Christian God does exist, and you are gay, then yes, you will be punished. Just don't worry too much about it, life's too short to worry about if being gay is ok.

osm70 · Oct 23, 2018

TheArcuzHunter said:
Wait, what? sorry I don't understand that statement, *theoretically* you can't control if you're gay or trans? Is that what you're saying?

Yes, I am saying that being gay or trans or non-binary is not my fault. I was born that way and there's nothing I can do to change it.

TheArcuzHunter · Oct 23, 2018

bi388 said:
Being trans is biological. You cannot control it, theres physical brain differences. So god made you born in a way that if you lived the way you want to, youd be 'sinning'.

That's just big bullcrap.
I see that you aren't going to cooperate in "changing", so I'm not going to keep on arguing anymore. My last words: Please change, not for me, for God. Love yourself as you came to earth, not who you want to be.

bi388 · Oct 23, 2018

TheArcuzHunter said:
That's just big bullcrap.
I see that you aren't going to cooperate in "changing", so I'm not going to keep on arguing anymore. My last words: Please change, not for me, for God. Love yourself as you came to earth, not who you want to be.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-promised-study-shows-structural-differences/
https://bigthink.com/mike-colagross...ign-with-rather-than-what-they-were-born-with
https://www.the-scientist.com/featu...ifferent-from-those-of-cisgender-people-30027
Tfw science is bullcrap and people who believe in facts are not 'cooperating'

Attacker3 · Oct 23, 2018

bi388 said:
You cannot control it, theres physical brain differences. So god made you born in a way that if you lived the way you want to, youd be 'sinning'.

Actually, under the Catholic religion, mental illness is a reason for a sin to be exempt. In Catholicism, if you're mentally ill and do something, God is understanding and won't punish you. That's in Catholicism anyways.

bi388 · Oct 23, 2018

Attacker3 said:
Actually, under the Catholic religion, mental illness is a reason for a sin to be exempt. In Catholicism, if you're mentally ill and do something, God is understanding and won't punish you. That's in Catholicism anyways.

Well then if being gay or trans is considered by religion to be a mental illness, doesnt that make it ok? since youd be exempt.

osm70 · Oct 23, 2018

TheArcuzHunter said:
That's just big bullcrap.
I see that you aren't going to cooperate in "changing", so I'm not going to keep on arguing anymore. My last words: Please change, not for me, for God. Love yourself as you came to earth, not who you want to be.

Source?

Wurstmann · Oct 23, 2018

I am ok with defining gender solely based on your genitals. But once you have transitioned it should be adjusted and not say your old gender in the papers. Gender is binary except in very rare cases. Gender != sexual identity. Somebody with a penis should only be allowed to use men's bathrooms, no matter what they identify as. Just as someone with a penis but identifying as a woman should never be allowed to use women's parking spaces. Or participate in women's sports. And no, this is not about the imaginary pretend trans rapist, it's about not destroying safe spaces for a majority because of a minority.

Attacker3 · Oct 23, 2018

bi388 said:
Well then if being gay or trans is considered by religion to be a mental illness, doesnt that make it ok? since youd be exempt.

Well, my understanding is that it's not really ok, but God won't punish you for being gay in itself. Sodom and Gomorrah were burned because people were indulging in homosexual acts for the sake of pleasure itself, which is a big no no in almost any religion. If you're gay, admit to yourself that it's a sin and repent, then I don't think in Catholicism you would be punished. If you act on it, and then repent after, you'd probably be fine. See the thing is this was crafted way back when people just saw homosexuality as a thing you can control. Now that we know that it's just something you are born with, then God is probably more forgiving of it than people thought when the Bible was written.

FAST6191 · Oct 23, 2018

Attacker3 said:
But, if a Christian God does exist, and you are gay, then yes, you will be punished. Just don't worry too much about it, life's too short to worry about if being gay is ok.

But they tell me I will be sitting in fire for eternity (which is a rather long time) at a table unable to reach food because I am only allowed to use these massive sticks or something.

x65943 · Oct 23, 2018

SG854 said:
This doesn't make sense. Because isn't a common complaint among trans people that they are raised the opposite of what they actually feel. So if they are raised to match their sex at birth then wouldn't that be the default and wouldn't it be hard to turn transgender, since after all its hard to change how you are raised.

This would mean trans started acting trans by choice when they got older which contradicts that it was hard to change.
Or do you think trans were raised trans at birth which is why they act trans? That it's all a construct and there is nothing in the brain that affects this?

I think gender itself is a social construct. For whatever reason people start to act certain ways.

Consider that men and women don't act the same way in every culture. In some contexts men act more stereotypically "Western feminine".

If it was in born I am just saying you would see more consistency in how men and women act across cultures.

Now this doesn't end the debate. But I think there is not enough evidence either way. And personally through the principle of parsimony where the most simple explanation is usually correct - I think it's a construct.

SG854 · Oct 23, 2018

x65943 said:
I think gender itself is a social construct. For whatever reason people start to act certain ways.

Consider that men and women don't act the same way in every culture. In some contexts men act more stereotypically "Western feminine".

If it was in born I am just saying you would see more consistency in how men and women act across cultures.

Now this doesn't end the debate. But I think there is not enough evidence either way. And personally through the principle of parsimony where the most simple explanation is usually correct - I think it's a construct.

Except it is universal. Look towards countries with the most gender equality. They have the biggest male and female differences. When you neutralize environment as much as you can gender differences get bigger not smaller. Because people are free to choose what they desire most.

Countries with less gender equality have less male and female differences in career choices because women are forced to choose careers they don't want in order to survive. They take whatever they can get. There main concern is making that dollar. Women and men are capable of many of the same things, but women gravitate towards certain things because of evolution.

These differences are observable in a babies early months of birth. Males look at objects more, female looks at faces more. This is before any socialization happens. Females that have Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia have male like characteristics later in life. Gender differences is even observable in other animals like monkeys. Male monkeys prefer trucks with wheels, while females prefer dolls.

Saying its a gender construct invalidates that Transgenderism exists that its all made up. And we should from birth raise kids to match their sex since this will save a lot of headaches, this will stop future bullying and future problems from being transgender.

Jhyrachy · Oct 23, 2018

Saying that gender is a social construct is misleading at best, malicious at worst.

There are tangible differences in how a 'female' brain is wired in comparison to a 'male' one (not so fun fact: a lot of transgender people will find to have a 'female' brain in a male body and also the other way around)

We have to learn why is that so and to embrace the differences that we have, not try to deny them

Ev1l0rd · Oct 23, 2018

TheArcuzHunter said:
Just telling you gay/bi/lesbi/trans/etc etc, you could change. Even if your life is hell right now, you can change, and it will all be better. Be happy with who you are, and if you aren't, don't stop trying, fight against the thought of being someone you want to be (for example female if you're male) that you really aren't, and if you do, you will be forgiven!

Trivializing ones gender identity and sexuality is what you're doing here.

Being gay/bi/lesbian isn't a "choice". There is scientific research that indicates it isn't. Suppressing it leads to much worse instances such as priests sexually abusing young boys. Not suppressing it would result in there being a whole lot less holy water being sprayed over these kids backs, which is a good thing.

Same w/r/t being trans: suppressing it leads to suicidical thoughts and loads of unhappiness and telling people just to be happy with it when we have the means to change it is the same as telling a depressive person they should just stop being sad. It's ineffective and flat out offensive to the person in question.

Kingy · Oct 23, 2018

Nobody's being "defined out of existence" or "dehumanised", it's just simply a new definition of "sex", which is correct. This doesn’t deny any person’s humanity or existence.

Awstoned · Oct 23, 2018

i mean no offense

but why is this on a video game forum

VinsCool · Oct 23, 2018

Awstoned said:
i mean no offense

but why is this on a video game forum

Because a section was specifically created for that. Nothing wrong with having other discussions in here.

Jhyrachy · Oct 23, 2018

Ev1l0rd said:
Same w/r/t being trans: suppressing it leads to suicidical thoughts and loads of unhappiness and telling people just to be happy with it when we have the means to change it is the same as telling a depressive person they should just stop being sad. It's ineffective and flat out offensive to the person in question.

This part is a lot more complex because 'Trans people' is just a blanket term to cover them all while people have differents needs.

Some people will embrace the transgender identity while overs, even while transitioning, will reject it stating that they just want to be a 'male' or a 'female', nota an 'MtF' or an 'FtM'

Depression and suicide also is linked to the quality of the surgery and procedure they perform because it impacts all their life, including the sexual one. That's why I had patients who performed estethic surgery but not genital surgery

‘Transgender’ Could Be Defined Out of Existence Under Trump Administration

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