‘Transgender’ Could Be Defined Out of Existence Under Trump Administration

x65943 · Oct 23, 2018

SG854 said:
Its not just that one piece. There is lots of other evidence that its not a social construct in addition to that. I've also read much of the research myself and come to that same conclusion. Why not train trans people to stop being trans? Pray the trans away. I mean after all, its all a construct.

Saying there is evidence does not make it exist. I have read into this way too much - like WAY TOO MUCH.

And just because something is a social construct, that doesn't mean it's easy to change. Consider that the career criminal and president were born essentially the same. But can you simply pray the crime away or make someone a functioning member of society just because his actions are learned? Of course not. Social conditioning is very strong and perhaps permanent in many cases. Just because something is learned behavior that doesn't make it possible to change. Think of wife beaters or pedophiles.

Ev1l0rd · Oct 23, 2018

TheArcuzHunter said:
I don't know how say this more clearly (if that's how you say it, sorry, bilingual and english isn't my main), but even if it makes you happy,it doesnt mean its right, even if you want people to accept the way you want to be, you can't, because it isn't right in God's Sight. I know what you might think. "Religious crap, get it out of here!", "God is dead", "God doesn't exist!", "God is a lie/myth we keep telling ourselves to feel safe/comfortable", But I believe in God, and everyone can tell their opinion and this can go on forever. God created Adam and Eve, not Adamella and Evoy, it's in the Bible. "That's funny, to base yourself off of the Bible!", "I bet you have sinned!" yes, we all have sinned and we all will , every single person because we aren't perfect and we will never be "On Earth" but we can try to be like Jesus, and that fact doesn't give us the right to keep sinning or to do it in the first place "Because God will forgive me anytime I want". We can all repent. We can all change. Don't pretend someone you aren't. You were born the way you were born, period. If you identify as something or someone you weren't born as, you are defying God, so cease it, repent. If you stop it, you will be forgiven. Even I have thought that God doesn't exist (lots of times), but at the end I come back to him. If you have questions of this matter, talk to me or to an LDS (not LSD) member, and don't explain anything to them, just ask "Can I talk to the Bishop or the Missionaries please" and they will guide you to them, and they will give you tips/guidance/ and the help you need (don't tell your sins to the Missionaries, just to the Bishop, he will know what to do and help you out).
If you feel the guilt/shame deep inside you, do as I recommend you to do. Me? I'm just another LDS member. I'm doing my duty. I try my best.
You don't feel guilt/shame at all? I'll pray for you to understand this message so that it can reach your mind and soul, to be straightened in the path of God.as I said, I'm not perfect. I'm not superior TO ANY OF YOU! I'm just someone who is trying to do some good in his life,and to all of you triggered transgenders, I didn't mean to. I'm trying to help you out, that's all. Goodnight!
Edit: yes, I feel bad for saying that, but it's the truth, and the truth hurts.
YOUR BODY IS A TEMPLE, THEREFORE YOU SHALL NOT PUT IMPURITIES IN IT, NEITHER REMOVE ANYTHING FROM IT (Perforations, tattoos, man earrings,etc those are all against God too).

Let's say these people defy god. Why should that of all things be your problem. If they defy the big man in the loincloth up above that supposedly watches over us, then they will get their punishment when it comes. In short: if someone goes against "god", why should that concern you. Instead, be smug and satisfied because you can go to heaven and everyone who in your eyes goes against God goes to hell.

No reason to make their lives on earth hell if they're going to hell anyway.

Honestly, I don't get why people that are religious feel so obliged to push this shit onto people. If you defy god, you'd get punished for it when you die right? So be happy, be smug, be self-satisfied, because the people that "sin" in your eyes will get their just judgement eventually. No need to be the judge yourself. Or might it actually be that you consider your god a fraud and need to take this sense of justice in your own hands to make those words carry any meaning?

(Note: I'm not religious, I just don't get this entire mindset of "I'm religious and gay/bi/trans people are against this religion so I should make their lives hell".)

osaka35 · Oct 23, 2018

barronwaffles said:
I'm sorry, but what? There's plenty of papers covering the differences observed on average between the sexes in regards to both the structure and processing pathways - to wave that away as simply being a result of 'hormones and other variables' when those variables are often intrinsically related to sex is absurd.

It's the "on average" bit you should focus on.

The problem is nature vs nurture. You don't just get a brain from genetics and then nothing changes. Your environment plays an intense role in brain development and the like, and it's hard to separate cultural and environmental input from biological input. When you measure different structure and processing, you're examining the end result of the process and trying to guess at what brought you there. Most folk like to assume it proves males and females are just completely different. But when you read the literature, you tend to see "more likely" when talking about sexes and the like. Meaning, the bell curve is in a different place. It's not saying they're categorically different. The overlap of the bell curves are probably closer to 98 or so percent in regards to cognitive abilities. Which from my perspective, isn't much to base anything on, really. The differences folks see probably just comes down to environment and social pressures to develop along certain paths. Social psychology is a much stronger force than folks give it credit.

And even if there were huge differences, everyone should be allowed to do things to the best of their ability. The difference between the mean average and the potential of any particular individual throws people for a loop.

Attacker3 · Oct 23, 2018

Trump is doing nothing wrong. He's reverting to the fact-based definition and not the emotion one. Look, I don't care if your wear a fucking tutu while being a bodybuilder. I don't care if you look in the mirror and see some weird cat creature, go ahead, do that, be whatever the hell you want! It's a free god damn country! Do what you want with yourself! If you want to be something different, if you want to feel like something different, it doesn't matter! You go do it, man! Power to you!

But please, don't expect others to go along with it, after all, this is a free god damn country.

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osaka35 said:
You don't just get a brain from genetics and then nothing changes

Genetics play a massive role in it, though. People think that intelligence is something anyone can get if they just work hard, but that isn't it. You gotta get really lucky to be smart, that's about it. Of course you can still be really successful compared to someone smarter than you if you work hard, but they'll still be smarter than you. Kinda how the smartest guy on Earth right now is just a bartender and hasn't done anything with his life. Same applies to gender. You're born male or female, and then you might get put into a different gender role if you're brought up differently.

Hanafuda · Oct 23, 2018

Attacker3 said:
Trump is doing nothing wrong. He's reverting to the fact-based definition and not the emotion one.

I would say reverting to the legislatively intended definition from when Title IX was made law, rather than the policy of the previous administration which had the effect of new law without the Congress ever voting on it.

Attacker3 · Oct 23, 2018

Hanafuda said:
I would say reverting to the legislatively intended definition from when Title IX was made law, rather than the policy of the previous administration which had the effect of new law without the Congress ever voting on it.

I don't know what you're trying to say, but Title IX protects people from discrimination based on things that you are that you cannot change. People argue that "oh, but I feel like an otherkin, I feel like a man or a woman, yada yada yada" but that's it, you feel like it, it doesn't mean you are. Making laws based on feelings is a really stupid way to make laws. You are either a man or a woman, you cannot change that, but your gender role is something you CAN change, with enough CBT and such, if you really wanted to. This is not something you are born with, it's something that was "nutured" into you, and you can thank your parents if you're a guy and feel like you want to be a girl. They fucked up their parenting and is causing you that trauma.

Hanafuda · Oct 23, 2018

Attacker3 said:
I don't know what you're trying to say, but Title IX protects people from discrimination based on things that you are that you cannot change.

I'm saying Title IX was passed into law in 1972, and the Congress' intent when it passed was to prohibit discrimination based on "sex" ... that's all it says. Male/female biological sex designation, not a person's choice to emulate a gender role that differs from their sex.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just there is a specific reason for this action and that is to reaffirm the application of Title IX to only the circumstances that were intended when it was made law. If Congress wants to pass a new Title to the Civil Rights Act to cover transgenders, it can do that. But the Executive Branch doesn't get to just declare that (even though under Obama, it did).

Oh and I watched the video you just linked -- good stuff.

bi388 · Oct 23, 2018

Attacker3 said:
I don't know what you're trying to say, but Title IX protects people from discrimination based on things that you are that you cannot change. People argue that "oh, but I feel like an otherkin, I feel like a man or a woman, yada yada yada" but that's it, you feel like it, it doesn't mean you are.

Heres the difference. Theres real documented evidence showing that transgender people have biological similarities in their brain to the gender they identify as rather than the one they were born as, implying they are literally the other gender mentally stuck in the wrong body. There is 0 evidence to suggest otherkin are wolves/dragons brains stuck in a human body.

TheArcuzHunter · Oct 23, 2018

Ev1l0rd said:
Let's say these people defy god. Why should that of all things be your problem. If they defy the big man in the loincloth up above that supposedly watches over us, then they will get their punishment when it comes. In short: if someone goes against "god", why should that concern you. Instead, be smug and satisfied because you can go to heaven and everyone who in your eyes goes against God goes to hell.

No reason to make their lives on earth hell if they're going to hell anyway.

Honestly, I don't get why people that are religious feel so obliged to push this shit onto people. If you defy god, you'd get punished for it when you die right? So be happy, be smug, be self-satisfied, because the people that "sin" in your eyes will get their just judgement eventually. No need to be the judge yourself. Or might it actually be that you consider your god a fraud and need to take this sense of justice in your own hands to make those words carry any meaning?

(Note: I'm not religious, I just don't get this entire mindset of "I'm religious and gay/bi/trans people are against this religion so I should make their lives hell".)

Just telling you gay/bi/lesbi/trans/etc etc, you could change. Even if your life is hell right now, you can change, and it will all be better. Be happy with who you are, and if you aren't, don't stop trying, fight against the thought of being someone you want to be (for example female if you're male) that you really aren't, and if you do, you will be forgiven!

bi388 · Oct 23, 2018

TheArcuzHunter said:
Just telling you gay/bi/lesbi/trans/etc etc, you could change. Even if your life is hell right now, you can change, and it will all be better. Be happy with who you are, and if you aren't, don't stop trying, fight against the thought of being someone you want to be (for example female if you're male) that you really aren't, and if you do, you will be forgiven!

Scientific research disagrees with you. Being gay or trans or whatever is not wrong. Its not a 'sin' because sins dont exist. It isnt immoral because it doesnt hurt other people. Theres nothing to forgive, stop trying to tell other people what they should or shouldnt do when it doesnt hurt you or anyone else. A trans woman IS a woman, not a man. They arent 'trying' to be a woman.

Attacker3 · Oct 23, 2018

bi388 said:
implying they are literally the other gender mentally stuck in the wrong body.

Shouldn't that be classified as a brain defect? If your brain developed in a way that does not match your body, something fucked up in your development. Heck, we should find a treatment for it that doesn't end up in suicide, because I feel bad for them.

TheArcuzHunter · Oct 23, 2018

bi388 said:
Scientific research disagrees with you. Being gay or trans or whatever is not wrong. Its not a 'sin' because sins dont exist. It isnt immoral because it doesnt hurt other people. Theres nothing to forgive, stop trying to tell other people what they should or shouldnt do when it doesnt hurt you or anyone else. A trans woman IS a woman, not a man. They arent 'trying' to be a woman.

Hey, stop that. I'm just doing my duty. God exists, and if you think otherwise, I'll pray for you to think otherwise. God gave us "Free Agency" so that we can be tested on Earth, the Devil rules earth, but in the end, God will make "the second coming" happen, and judge all of us. We all still have time to Change. Make fun of me, don't care. I'm just trying to help out you people. It's my duty.

bi388 · Oct 23, 2018

Attacker3 said:
Shouldn't that be classified as a brain defect? If your brain developed in a way that does not match your body, something fucked up in your development. Heck, we should find a treatment for it that doesn't end up in suicide, because I feel bad for them.

I dont care how its classified tbh, and i totally agree we need to find treatment. It just seems to me the best treatment for that is transitioning. Trans people can correct me here if im wrong but afaik thats the only treatment thats known to be effective.

TheArcuzHunter said:
Hey, stop that. I'm just doing my duty. God exists, and if you think otherwise, I'll pray for you to think otherwise. Make fun of me, don't care. I'm just trying to help out you people. It's my duty.

Im not making fun of you, im telling you to stop invalidating other people. Its really shitty of you. It is not your duty to go around telling other people that their identity is fake and need to live an incongruent life because of your personal beliefs.

sarkwalvein · Oct 23, 2018

Attacker3 said:
Shouldn't that be classified as a brain defect? If your brain developed in a way that does not match your body, something fucked up in your development. Heck, we should find a treatment for it that doesn't end up in suicide, because I feel bad for them.

TheArcuzHunter said:
Hey, stop that. I'm just doing my duty. God exists, and if you think otherwise, I'll pray for you to think otherwise. Make fun of me, don't care. I'm just trying to help out you people. It's my duty.

Nope.
Get down your horses and treat people with respect, the same respect should be given back to you.

TheArcuzHunter · Oct 23, 2018

bi388 said:
I dont care how its classified tbh, and i totally agree we need to find treatment. It just seems to me the best treatment for that is transitioning. Trans people can correct me here if im wrong but afaik thats the only treatment thats known to be effective.

Im not making fun of you, im telling you to stop invalidating other people. Its really shitty of you. It is not your duty to go around telling other people that their identity is fake and need to live an incongruent life because of your personal beliefs.

Just be happy with who you are. That's it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

sarkwalvein said:
Nope.
Get down your horses and treat people with respect, the same respect should be given back to you.

I am! Just saying what's right, because being gay/lesbian/Bi/trans/etc is against God's commandments and rules, and it was demonstrated with "Sodom and gomorrah", those 2 cities where filled in sin, sexual relationships between the same sex, trans, etc. and God destroyed those two cities with fire. You can change, so change! If you don't, you will not prevail, and I encourage you to change! Be who you are! Don't try to be someone you aren't, because that's not right in the eyes of God!

Attacker3 · Oct 23, 2018

bi388 said:
It just seems to me the best treatment for that is transitioning. Trans people can correct me here if im wrong but afaik thats the only treatment thats known to be effective.

Transitioning doesn't help anyone at all, my friend. Stuff like suicide rates are up to almost 50% for female to male after transitioning. There should be at least some reduction, bu there isn't. The suicide rate is the exact same. We need to find a better way to treat them. I don't hate transgender people at all, don't get me wrong, I just think that when people made criticism of transitioning, people got defensive and are now defending it to the death even though it just doesn't do enough to help, if it even helps at all.

sarkwalvein said:
Nope.
Get down your horses and treat people with respect, the same respect should be given back to you.

That's why I say the things i do. Ignoring the fact that respect is a two way street, and I have no reason to respect them, I do treat people with common decency, and one of those things that I do is tell people the truth, and make sure that they're ok. Transitioning doesn't help anyone, and we gotta find a better way to treat it.

Note: I don't agree with the other guy's religious views on this subject.

bi388 · Oct 23, 2018

Attacker3 said:
Transitioning doesn't help anyone at all, my friend. Stuff like suicide rates are up to almost 50% for female to male after transitioning. There should be at least some reduction, bu there isn't. The suicide rate is the exact same. We need to find a better way to treat them. I don't hate transgender people at all, don't get me wrong, I just think that when people made criticism of transitioning, people got defensive and are now defending it to the death even though it just doesn't do enough to help, if it even helps at all.

Oh I agree that there should be more help for sure, the suicide rate is a horrible problem and those numbers are really scary. I just dont think that other help and transitioning are mutually exclusive. We as a nation need to put far more stock into researching and treating all kinds of problems, gender dysphoria included. Id love to see more tax money go to that rather than giving more tax breaks to Jeff Bizos and co.

sarkwalvein · Oct 23, 2018

Attacker3 said:
That's why I say the things i do. Ignoring the fact that respect is a two way street, and I have no reason to respect them, I do treat people with common decency, and one of those things that I do is tell people the truth, and make sure that they're ok. Transitioning doesn't help anyone, and we gotta find a better way to treat it.

Note: I don't agree with the other guy's religious views on this subject.

Well, being sincere is for the better.
I kind of read your post like it was a sarcastic comment, as if your were setting yourself on a pedestal.
My bad.

osm70 · Oct 23, 2018

TheArcuzHunter said:
Just telling you gay/bi/lesbi/trans/etc etc, you could change. Even if your life is hell right now, you can change, and it will all be better. Be happy with who you are, and if you aren't, don't stop trying, fight against the thought of being someone you want to be (for example female if you're male) that you really aren't, and if you do, you will be forgiven!

TheArcuzHunter said:
Just be happy with who you are. That's it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I am! Just saying what's right, because being gay/lesbian/Bi/trans/etc is against God's commandments and rules, and it was demonstrated with "Sodom and gomorrah", those 2 cities where filled in sin, sexual relationships between the same sex, trans, etc. and God destroyed those two cities with fire. You can change, so change! If you don't, you will not prevail, and I encourage you to change! Be who you are! Don't try to be someone you aren't, because that's not right in the eyes of God!

OK, for the sake of the argument, let's assume these 2 things:

1. God exists

2. I am gay or trans or non-binary or whatever

Are you saying God will punish me for something I have no control of? If so, he's an asshole and I see no reason to obey him.

TheArcuzHunter · Oct 23, 2018

osm70 said:
OK, for the sake of the argument, let's assume these 2 things:

1. God exists

2. I am gay or trans or non-binary or whatever

Are you saying God will punish me for something I have no control of? If so, he's an asshole and I see no reason to obey him.

Wait, what? sorry I don't understand that statement, *theoretically* you can't control if you're gay or trans? Is that what you're saying?

‘Transgender’ Could Be Defined Out of Existence Under Trump Administration

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