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The benefits of Brexit - the future of the United Kingdom

kumikochan

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Doing it now so no difference if others like to play Bitch Boy thats up to them I said before we will do fine get over it petal :grog:
Ur not tho. The pound is almost exactly the same as the Euro while prior to the brexit it was almost double the amount. How in your dictionary is that doing fine ? You earn almost half of what you earned prior to the brexit
 
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FAST6191

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The guy being responsible did as soon as it happened. Nigel Farage is the biggest coward in British history because he left with his tail between his legs as soon as it was set in motion and left it up to others to deal with all the shit.
Was he responsible for it? He was certainly a key player and agitator (for many years at that) but as far as I can see it was a conservative party (different party to his one) election promise* and ultimately organised referendum (pity they had not organised an actual plan but hey), one in which several of their key players were in turn the driving players in the leave campaign.

*it was noted at the time that it was something of a vote gaining ploy to prevent the conservative base from being split, arguably by UKIP in England but it was not without perks in the other countries. You could then argue some... blame trickles down but that only goes so far.
 

kumikochan

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Was he responsible for it? He was certainly a key player and agitator (for many years at that) but as far as I can see it was a conservative party (different party to his one) election promise* and ultimately organised referendum (pity they had not organised an actual plan but hey), one in which several of their key players were in turn the driving players in the leave campaign.

*it was noted at the time that it was something of a vote gaining ploy to prevent the conservative base from being split, arguably by UKIP in England but it was not without perks in the other countries. You could then argue some... blame trickles down but that only goes so far.
He was the head of Ukip from my understanding and it was thanks to Ukip that the brexit referendum happened. And as soon as the people said yes he basically said '' i'm out, deal with the aftermath '' and he resigned leaving every politician angry. Everybody still calls him a coward because he is
 

FAST6191

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He was the head of Ukip from my understanding and it was thanks to Ukip that the brexit referendum happened. And as soon as the people said yes he basically said '' i'm out, deal with the aftermath '' and he resigned leaving every politician angry. Everybody still calls him a coward because he is
Again it was a conservative election promise and organised affair. Said conservative party has a long history and notable number of "eurosceptic" members. I don't doubt UKIP played a role (I already mentioned the lack of desire to split bases, and it being a central issue for them), one far greater than their size (whether in terms of parliament seats, EU MP seats, council seats, voter count or registered members) but I am still not sure it is all that easy to place as much of it at his feet as you reckon.
 

CORE

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Its the bloody Russians I bet they have undermined the Brexit Vote like Trump aint that right.

Hell im telling you now just like the Brexit my Toast got burned I bet a Russian messed with my Toaster.
 
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kumikochan

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Again it was a conservative election promise and organised affair. Said conservative party has a long history and notable number of "eurosceptic" members. I don't doubt UKIP played a role (I already mentioned the lack of desire to split bases, and it being a central issue for them), one far greater than their size (whether in terms of parliament seats, EU MP seats, council seats, voter count or registered members) but I am still not sure it is all that easy to place as much of it at his feet as you reckon.
Oh come on it did. Ukip went from 3 percent to 15 percent and Cameron was feeling the pressure of Farage in his neck. So Cameron made a promise in 2013 that if he would win in 2015 he would allow the referendum Farage was constantly asking and so he did and the answer wasn't what he wanted so he resigned and then Farage took his place but also immediatly resigned
 

FAST6191

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So Cameron made a promise in 2013 that if he would win in 2015 he would allow the referendum Farage was constantly asking and so he did and the answer wasn't what he wanted so he resigned and then Farage took his place but also immediatly resigned
"Took his place"? Farage et al were never in the running for PM, negotiator, ambassador... anything like that. I don't know the full reasons for Farage's resignation and I doubt we ever will (unless you are particularly buying the mission managed line).
 

kumikochan

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"Took his place"? Farage et al were never in the running for PM, negotiator, ambassador... anything like that. I don't know the full reasons for Farage's resignation and I doubt we ever will (unless you are particularly buying the mission managed line).
his reason was that he wanted his life back and couldn't deal with the brexit negotiations and that his political ambitions were fulfilled. Also in what way wasn't he in that race when he was in the 2015 elections as head of UKIP ? If you're running in the elections then your def in the race regardless of reasons. When Cameron stepped down people looked towards him for the brexit negotiations because someone needed to deal with that and he said no and resigned.
 
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FAST6191

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his reason was that he wanted his life back and couldn't deal with the brexit negotiations and that his political ambitions were fulfilled. Also in what way wasn't he in that race when he was in the 2015 elections as head of UKIP ? If you're running in the elections then your def in the race regardless of reasons
For all his beer in the pub, man of the people persona he does seem to have the same dose of

as all the others and that covers the "spend time with my family" thing as well as it could be.

Also it was 2016 when Cameron resigned, for a vote that happened the same year. That rather bothers the order of things for your example if we are considering the 2015 elections, at least beyond the potential spoiler effect stuff from earlier. In terms of order of government he was so far down on the list (in terms of the UK government he did not even hold a seat and was a MEP) that when you say "take his [the prime minster's] place" I had no idea what you were heading towards. He could have "followed his lead" and resigned but your sentence did not read like that.

All I really wanted to say was that you seem to paint him as some kind of mastermind architect of the situation, one still tugging important strings. I say absolutely an important player and worth noting in the history of it all but really not that.
 

Technicmaster0

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In the end it was more than 50% of the people that spoke. You can't really blame the plitics for leaving the choice to the people. Everyone that voted was adult and should have known what they did and should accept to live with the consequences.
 

FAST6191

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In the end it was more than 50% of the people that spoke. You can't really blame the plitics for leaving the choice to the people. Everyone that voted was adult and should have known what they did and should accept to live with the consequences.
I don't necessarily disagree, and find it disappointing so many went for it without anything resembling a plan in place, but I also expect competence out of politicians (I know that makes me an unpardonable optimist but hey).
 

kumikochan

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For all his beer in the pub, man of the people persona he does seem to have the same dose of

as all the others and that covers the "spend time with my family" thing as well as it could be.

Also it was 2016 when Cameron resigned, for a vote that happened the same year. That rather bothers the order of things for your example if we are considering the 2015 elections, at least beyond the potential spoiler effect stuff from earlier. In terms of order of government he was so far down on the list (in terms of the UK government he did not even hold a seat and was a MEP) that when you say "take his [the prime minster's] place" I had no idea what you were heading towards. He could have "followed his lead" and resigned but your sentence did not read like that.

All I really wanted to say was that you seem to paint him as some kind of mastermind architect of the situation, one still tugging important strings. I say absolutely an important player and worth noting in the history of it all but really not that.

I do not paint him as the mastermind at all but it was he that was mostly pushing it these last years. Ofcourse there were others in favour of this but he was the most outspoken about it and got the public going with it. The thing was with previous politicians that they all constantly failed to even get a certain backing and def out of the people but he was more of a publics figure so he got the ball running. Not saying he's the mastermind at all because ofcourse you had people like Boris Johnson etc. I guess we can agree on that that he wasn't the reason it happened but played an important role atleast
 

FAST6191

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I can't go there. The history of the "eurosceptic" part of various parties is long* and prominent -- the average news story would list such a thing if they mentioned a politician by name as the first aside ("John Smith, MP for some hole, a prominent eurosceptic" would be typically how that ran, frequently where it was only of passing relevance).

*it was around in name since the campaign/vote to join EU in the first place however many years ago that was but you can easily go back further to the other precursor organisations and bodies. Or go the other way. Pick any of the major news sources for the UK, do a search for that, eurosceptic and the year. If more than a month passes without a major story, especially in the last 20 or so years, with it as a component it is probably more that searching sucks but if it didn't you would easily find it.

If you want to focus on Farage then so be it, however to do so if not exclusively then nearly so would be to miss a massive part of it all.
 

kumikochan

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I can't go there. The history of the "eurosceptic" part of various parties is long* and prominent -- the average news story would list such a thing if they mentioned a politician by name as the first aside ("John Smith, MP for some hole, a prominent eurosceptic" would be typically how that ran, frequently where it was only of passing relevance).

*it was around in name since the campaign/vote to join EU in the first place however many years ago that was but you can easily go back further to the other precursor organisations and bodies. Or go the other way. Pick any of the major news sources for the UK, do a search for that, eurosceptic and the year. If more than a month passes without a major story, especially in the last 20 or so years, with it as a component it is probably more that searching sucks but if it didn't you would easily find it.

If you want to focus on Farage then so be it, however to do so if not exclusively then nearly so would be to miss a massive part of it all.
Like i already previously said. Ofcourse there were eurosceptics long before nigel farage but it was because of him that it became more popular with the public itself. It was the anti immigration standpoint nigel farage was doing that sweetened up the public to vote for a brexit. Ofcourse there were tons of politicians that did it before but in no way at all did a previous politician, public spokesperson sweeten up the public in the same manner as nigel farage did with his party UKIP. I never said that the brexit was solely because of him and it is because of many factors and many people but only Nigel Farage and his party sweetened up the public the way he did and that no one else achieved that previously to sway half the country of demanding a referendum and voting yes
 

AdamFX990

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With the EU pushing for article 11 and article 13, I've completely changed my opinion since the vote. Originally I wanted to stay, because I was a student at the time and thought leaving would only make myself and other people my age even more financially screwed than we already were.

Tbh though, with Tories pushing for privatising the police force and some of the utterly idiotic propositions they've made regarding net neutrality. I think this country is boned regardless.

It doesn't help that the general attitude of British people is that "if you don't vote Labour or Tory its a wasted vote". Which obviously completely defeats the point in having a vote. Then the BBC have the cheek to call themselves neutral by only hearing the voices of those two parties. But, as is mentioned in the OP, the only reason one of two said parties got in was because of the fucking KKK of Ireland. Nobody took notice of them until a coilition become a possibility. Now we're fucked and we have only ourselves to blame.

Imo, the referendum is kind of a scape goat for a much bigger political problem in this country that everybody is ignoring, because nobody wants to admit they're partly responsible for it. Most of all, the people who didn't vote (of which I was one)!
 
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Taleweaver

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Okay, I...really have to bump this thread. Reason: someone made the most stupid, ridiculous comments I've ever came across:

Dominic Raab: we are, and I hadn't quite understood the full extend of this, but if you look at the UK and you look at how we trade in goods, we're particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.


Raab made this comment in a speech on something different (something of the ICT branch). It's pretty...it's mindboggingly stupid.

Why? Well...because Dominic isn't a random brexiteer passing by Dover and noticing the enormous industry of goods being on- and offloaded all the time. Neither is he a random guy with a map, coming to the insight that the closest distance between an island and the main land is likely where the best trade route might be. He isn't a random economist who somehow slept through his entire career either.

Dominic is(1) part of the government. He's a minister. More in detail: he's the brexit minister.


I kid you not: the brexit minister had only recently learned the true importance of the sea trade with Europe!!!



...I'm just lost for words here. Two freaking years of bickering, and then you've got this clown coming along who accidentally exposes this whole brexit thing as the scam all the bremainders only assumed it was.


(source)

(1) or 'was', by the time you read this, because Jezus Christ..."political suicide" is an underestimation compared to this situation.
 
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emigre

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Okay, I...really have to bump this thread. Reason: someone made the most stupid, ridiculous comments I've ever came across:

Dominic Raab: we are, and I hadn't quite understood the full extend of this, but if you look at the UK and you look at how we trade in goods, we're particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.


Raab made this comment in a speech on something different (something of the ICT branch). It's pretty...it's mindboggingly stupid.

Why? Well...because Dominic isn't a random brexiteer passing by Dover and noticing the enormous industry of goods being on- and offloaded all the time. Neither is he a random guy with a map, coming to the insight that the closest distance between an island and the main land is likely where the best trade route might be. He isn't a random economist who somehow slept through his entire career either.

Dominic is(1) part of the government. He's a minister. More in detail: he's the brexit minister.


I kid you not: the brexit minister had only recently learned the true importance of the sea trade with Europe!!!



...I'm just lost for words here. Two freaking years of bickering, and then you've got this clown coming along who accidentally exposes this whole brexit thing as the scam all the bremainders only assumed it was.


(source)

(1) or 'was', by the time you read this, because Jezus Christ..."political suicide" is an underestimation compared to this situation.

ltgtbnbtmow11.png


We are so fucked. The actual incompetence displayed by the Tories is incredible. I really hope we get a second vote on this especially if it's proved the Leave campaigns were doing dodgy shit.
 
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Taleweaver

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So...two days ago, it was suddenly news: "there is an agreement between the UK and the EU!".

I didn't bother reporting it here, as the caveat was that the deal still had to be approved by the UK government and the house of commons. Sure, Theresa May technically speaks in name of the UK, so the news wasn't technically wrong, but there isn't much of a point of saying these things when half the government thinks they're being screwed because it doesn't go far enough, the other half thinks they're being screwed because it goes too far and the 48% opposition (aka: the referendum losers) wants a new referendum. Of course, guys like Boris Johnson didn't even had to read it to know that it was worthl...sorry: utter bullocks (ya gotta love the English language :P ).


Despite that: she did manage to get it passed through the UK government. All it took was the resignation of two...sorry: five government officials (perhaps the tally is higher by the time I'm finished posting :P ). If it wasn't for that ruckus last friday, I'd say that Dominic Raab is following in Nigel Farage's footsteps in bailing out before the fallout (yup...the minister who is responsible for the brexit agreement is quitting. This obviously means that the deal is so solid that nothing could possibly go wrong :tpi:). Alas...there was a ruckus last friday (just check post #75 above), so we know in advance he quit because he had no idea what he got into.

Other bailouts:
Shailesh Vara...vice state secretary of Northern Ireland.
Esther McVey...minister of work
Suella Braverman...vice state secretary of Brexit
Anne-Marie Trevelyan...vice secretary of education

Oh, and Jo Johnson (Boris's brother) quit last week.


So...anyone wanna bet on the day the UK government's going to fall? :unsure: I mean...don't get me wrong: I absolutely hate the fact that our...somewhat neighbor'ish country (?) is hellbent on arguing themselves back to the stone age (assuming this show keeps up, that is). But since they're doing it to themselves, what else can we do about it but laugh at their expense? :(
 

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