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Woman fired after video goes viral - people say it was racist, but is it?

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kuwanger

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I think if a person demanded I show them my key that I'd probably show it to them to avoid the hassle of that crazy person. I also think that if I didn't show that key because I wanted to be a jackass, their stopping me from entering, following me to my door, and then calling the police on me after I use my key to open the door to my apartment that they're a much bigger jackass. Whether that translates to "racist" or "deserves to lose their job"? No idea on the specification motivation on the former but if the job in the latter is in any meaningful way one in which you have interactions with the public, then I wouldn't be surprised if you fired somehow who clearly shows incredibly poor judgment when interacting with the public. If it was back room desk job? No real reason to fire her, but it'd be hard not to condemn her behavior.

You see, everything up until the point that he opened the apartment door could be justified paranoia--although blocking the door is possibly illegal. After that? There's just no reason. If anything, the police should have been called on her.
 

supersonicwaffle

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I have an anecdote because something similar happened to me in my teens.

We live in a German city and growing up we couldn't afford a house so my parents rented an allotment garden which they now have for over 20 years. (Don't know if this is a thing elsewhere so here's a wiki link (can't post links as a newer member look for allotment(gardening) on wikipedia)

When I was in my teens we were living really close to the garden and I was looking for my parents (it was a time before cell phones :D ). They weren't at home, they weren't in their garden so I snooped around the neighbouring gardens to see whether they sat down with neighbours, I also checked the gardening clubhouse (yeah it's a thing).
I had to pass a lady that was working in her garden multiple times, her allotment was like the second or third next to my parents'. She was probably in her 70s at the time and when I was little she invited me over to pick cherries from her tree (tastiest cherries I have ever had in my life). Every time I passed her I said hi and gave a friendly nod.
So it turns out she didn't recognize me anymore and there have been instances of people climbing the fences of the gardens at night and breaking stuff recently. She stopped me and told me I had no business running around there. I calmly explained to her that I was just looking for my parents. She said that she knows all her neighbours children but she's never seen me. When I explained to her who my parents are and that I've just grown up since she invited me to pick cherries from her, she let me go but it was still awkward.

I'm white but my parents migrated to Germany well before I was born. Could've thought she was singling me out for that reason here.
In reality I acknowleged that she was looking out for herself and all of her neighbours. Even though it was an awkward situation I knew she meant well.

My parents own an apartment now. The way it works here in Germany is that you own a share in the building as well. If one of the people living there would stop and question me in this way while I was entering the building I'd calmly introduce myself as their neighbour's kid and not pull out a cellphone and start recording. I also realize that this is definitely a thing that could happen as neighbours are looking out for each other.

I've only seen the cut up video by abc from OP's link but from that it's absolutely disgusting to me that people jump to conclusions that it was purely racist. I feel like the situation looks so shitty because it could've easily been deescalated if the young gentleman had just introduced himself instead of not even telling the lady his unit number even though they live in the same building and then putting a phone in her face to record her.
Why is she not given the benefit of the doubt that she's just looking out for everyone in the building my potentially stopping someone who has no business there? Why do we have to bring race into this? How are some people so sure it wouldn't have happened if he was white?
 
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Taleweaver

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I neither agree nor disagree on the racism part. Like with gender, the problem is that there is no way NOT to see someone's skin color. As such, each action that someone makes in regard to someone else might or might not be related to this trait. Likewise, the other one might or might not perceive the action as caused by the perception of this trait.

The problem, as I see it, is mostly that there is a lot of racism (gender discrimination as well, but let's keep that for another discussion). Because there is a lot of racism, people tend to be more aware of their skin color, or see that as the cause of the way an interation (any interaction) might be.

So what does this mean concrete? Miss Mueller clearly was worried that Toles was a burglar rather than a resident. As it turned out, that was a wrong assumption. It was also pretty dumb to confront someone like that, and it was ESPECIALLY dumb to call the police when he used his keys to enter his own place (the proper way would be to APOLOGIZE to him at that time for being overly paranoid).
On his end, he filmed it and ASSUMES her behavior is because he's black. He spreads the story with this assumption, after which the story continues its own path with that assumption as if it's a given truth.
However...it is not a given. It can be. But it can not be just as well. And the problem, as I see it, isn't so much in whether it is or isn't racism, but in the almost scary certainty of people on what Mueller was really thinking. What's wrong with just admitting that you don't know something? :unsure:

To give an abstract example: a math teacher writes on the blackboard: "A+7= ?". The correct behavior of the class would be "we can't know the answer". But I feel that if the participants in this thread would be in this classroom, about half would argue that the answer is 12 ("we had a situation where A was 5 just yesterday") and another half would claim it to be 7 ("A is undefined, and therefore doesn't have any value"). And rather than seeing the futility in attempting to argue to what amounts to incomplete information, both groups would undermine each other's ability to count ("what are you? Stupid? 5+7 is clearly 12 so therefore the answer is 12!").
 
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The Catboy

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She...introduced herself to him. Have you seen all the video?
I did and she didn't. He asked her to move and she started asking him what unit he lived in. She even followed him into the elevator and said, "I want to see who you are here to see." Implying she doesn't even believe he lives there. She even continued to accuse him even after he put his keys in his door. This was obvious racial profiling.
 

supersonicwaffle

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I neither agree nor disagree on the racism part. Like with gender, the problem is that there is no way NOT to see someone's skin color. As such, each action that someone makes in regard to someone else might or might not be related to this trait. Likewise, the other one might or might not perceive the action as caused by the perception of this trait.

The problem, as I see it, is mostly that there is a lot of racism (gender discrimination as well, but let's keep that for another discussion). Because there is a lot of racism, people tend to be more aware of their skin color, or see that as the cause of the way an interation (any interaction) might be.

So what does this mean concrete? Miss Mueller clearly was worried that Toles was a burglar rather than a resident. As it turned out, that was a wrong assumption. It was also pretty dumb to confront someone like that, and it was ESPECIALLY dumb to call the police when he used his keys to enter his own place (the proper way would be to APOLOGIZE to him at that time for being overly paranoid).
On his end, he filmed it and ASSUMES her behavior is because he's black. He spreads the story with this assumption, after which the story continues its own path with that assumption as if it's a given truth.
However...it is not a given. It can be. But it can not be just as well. And the problem, as I see it, isn't so much in whether it is or isn't racism, but in the almost scary certainty of people on what Mueller was really thinking. What's wrong with just admitting that you don't know something? :unsure:

To give an abstract example: a math teacher writes on the blackboard: "A+7= ?". The correct behavior of the class would be "we can't know the answer". But I feel that if the participants in this thread would be in this classroom, about half would argue that the answer is 12 ("we had a situation where A was 5 just yesterday") and another half would claim it to be 7 ("A is undefined, and therefore doesn't have any value"). And rather than seeing the futility in attempting to argue to what amounts to incomplete information, both groups would undermine each other's ability to count ("what are you? Stupid? 5+7 is clearly 12 so therefore the answer is 12!").

Certainly an interesting viewpoint and I like your analogy with the math teacher.

I do, however, believe that just assuming malicious intent has set a dangerous precedent in recent times.
It has lead to a situation where people are afraid to speak up or criticize because they will be labeled as a *phobe, bigot, racist or nazi and that just isn't right.

I feel like that when people make an argument to not just assume this situation happened because of racism that they're making an argument to be more civil and kind. I would imagine this situation could've totally been defused in a number of ways but the young gentleman's first instinct was to assume racism and things escalated from there.
 

YetoJesse

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yay, promoting racism again.

Easiest part for humanity is assuming an event happens because the topic runs hot...

The following are assumptions happening right now in general with person A being the man and person B is the woman (lack of explanation due to formentioned racist assumptions).:

A is a dark colored male and B is a light colored female: It must be racism.
A is a light colored male and B is a light colored female: It must be an extremist feminist.
A is a light colored female and B is a light colored male: it must be sexism.
A is a light colored female and B is a dark colored male: "What is even happening here? counter racism??"

I can go on and on about this.
It's not safe for US to assume anything because YOU assume something.

Nevertheless leaves us with following problem: Media shows us said example is the light colored female being racist to the dark colored male.
If so than why does the female follow the male alone, gets into the elevator alone with him and walk with him all the way to his front door.

Is it weird if I come with the statement: "Hey, it just seems that she found one penis she hasn't shared the bed with in her appartment"?
 

supersonicwaffle

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I did and she didn't.

Honest question: can you provide a link to the original footage? I made an effort to find it, I found a 4:30 minute long video that still has two cuts in it.

He asked her to move and she started asking him what unit he lived in. She even followed him into the elevator and said, "I want to see who you are here to see." Implying she doesn't even believe he lives there.

And when he said he was going to his place she says: "I would like to introduce myself as a neighbour then"

Edit: While in the elevator she also says that she's not trying to be disrespectful or rude, she says that it's also fine that he records everything.

She even continued to accuse him even after he put his keys in his door.

In the video that I've found this isn't the case although there was a cut right before he put the keys in the door. After he says "You just followed me all the way to my door and you see my keys in the door" she replied "for the record I just wanted to say hi"

This was obvious racial profiling.

I can't understand how you conclude that from the argument you make. Could you please clarify?


Edit: I would've provided links to the video I found but I can't post links yet :(
 
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Lately, decent people of African American descent have been using their phones to film what occurs within earshot. This has been happening because they're trying to provide evidence involved in being stalked, then confronted for doing basic things, which are sadly flagged as suspicious or criminal inducing activity by others. However, the accusers, figuratively dressed up in more modern super man/woman outfit, are not the police. (Does George Zimmerman ring a bell?)

For example, one video on the internet has a man being asked some questions by a male police officer. The accuser was a passerby that believed the defendant kidnapped two white children in broad daylight. So if I follow the formula that some users go by in this thread, the lady was "doing the right thing" by keeping an eye on him until making her next move to sick the cops on him till much later. (Apparently the confused fellow was actually their babysitter for the day.)

Basically, this method DOES work to help uncover different types of stupidity which is often shrouded in pure misunderstandings.

Alright then. Before I wrap this up, if the guy did acquire the key through illegal methods, you may shoot me with a water gun.
 

PanTheFaun

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Yes its obviously racist.
Whats the average age of this thread? 12?
How was it racist? There is no evidence that what she did was race based. I'm not saying that she isn't secretly racist but for one she had a husband that was black and two she only asked about a key and such. It was messed up but there is no proof.
 

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Yes its obviously racist.
Whats the average age of this thread? 12?

Seeing as instantly your first grab is racism, probably due to the fact that you read the title (White female blocking black male's path) or the fact that you're so media infused that everything interracial conflict is instant racism, tells me yes.

I wonder if a white male would even bother grabbing his phone to film this and post this as a 'Feminazi' thing...
 
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supersonicwaffle

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Dumb sensational bullshit, why are you people bickering over this?
Does this really deserve a thread here?

This is an interesting reaction.
The woman did loser her job over this.
I think the thread has value even if it's just to iform people on the new rules on how to keep a job.
 

The Catboy

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Honest question: can you provide a link to the original footage? I made an effort to find it, I found a 4:30 minute long video that still has two cuts in it.

Ignoring the watermarks and the rest of the video, there doesn't appear to be any other edits.


And when he said he was going to his place she says: "I would like to introduce myself as a neighbour then" I did watch the full video, but I have very poor hearing and had to re-listen to the video again with headphones. You left out the fact she still said "And if you do" implying she still doubts he actually lives there. The entire time she's time to say he doesn't live there because why? She has no reason to doubt that he lives there and even then, she has no reason to know where he's going or who he's seeing.

Edit: While in the elevator she also says that she's not trying to be disrespectful or rude, she says that it's also fine that he records everything.
Expect she is being extremely rude by literally trying to say that he doesn't live there, then trying to impose onto him the entire time she's stalking him. She's literally stalking him as he's trying to get to his place, that's trying to say he doesn't live at. Her saying it was fine that he was recording her doesn't mean anything.

In the video that I've found this isn't the case although there was a cut right before he put the keys in the door. After he says "You just followed me all the way to my door and you see my keys in the door" she replied "for the record I just wanted to say hi"
So an extremely snarky comment means what? She wasn't trying to say hi nor was she trying to be polite at the end. That being said, being "polite" (because she wasn't being polite) doesn't mean anything compared to her actions. She stopped him, then harassed him, and then stalked him.


I can't understand how you conclude that from the argument you make. Could you please clarify? I watched a video of a woman randomly blocking a dude and then literally stalk him to his home for literally no logical reason outside of the obvious reason, which is that it was racially motivated based on her actions.

Edit: I would've provided links to the video I found but I can't post links yet :(
 
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MasterJ360

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This might sound silly to some, but I feel like she had a crush on the guy. Ya know some girls can do strange things to get attention. I'm not sold on the
"I was afraid bit" b/c if she really was afraid for her life she wouldn't have followed him all the way to his door. The claim doesn't fit the glass slippers here she simply was caught up in a heated moment and couldn't find a way to escape the mess she started.
 

PanTheFaun

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Dumb sensational bullshit, why are you people bickering over this?
Does this really deserve a thread here?
People are allowed to discuss any topics that they may want. If you're going to take down a post and say it's due to racism you should explain how it was racist.
 
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DinohScene

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This is an interesting reaction.
The woman did loser her job over this.
I think the thread has value even if it's just to iform people on the new rules on how to keep a job.

If you want to keep your job then either don't say a word and just do your job and don't do dumb things.
If you lose your job over something as silly as this then that job isn't worth it.

If it was up to me this thread would've been shoved in the bin as it will devolve into a shitfest of left and right wing fools flaming at each other.
Speaking of which, anyone who devolves this thread into said flame war deserves a suspension.
Do not derail it, you all have been warned!

Edit:
People are allowed to discuss any topics that they may want. If you're going to take down a post and say it's due to racism you should explain how it was racist.

You have been reposting a rather racist image that another mod has deleted prior.
Mod actions are not up for debate.
 

The Catboy

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She...introduced herself to him. Have you seen all the video?
I actually had to watch the video again with headphones because I am mostly deaf in real life and the video was rather hard for me to hear. That being said, it wasn't like, "Hey! names Jeff, How you doing today?" She did it in a rather defensive manor and as an attempt to get him to "introduce himself." There's a lot of actions she did in the video that only show her as being both passive aggressive and literally aggressive towards him for just trying to get to him home.
If this wasn't racially motivated, it was still an extremely unnecessary thing to happen to someone just trying to get to his home. She had no business harassing him nor stalking him.
 

PanTheFaun

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I actually had to watch the video again with headphones because I am mostly deaf in real life and the video was rather hard for me to hear. That being said, it wasn't like, "Hey! names Jeff, How you doing today?" She did it in a rather defensive manor and as an attempt to get him to "introduce himself." There's a lot of actions she did in the video that only show her as being both passive aggressive and literally aggressive towards him for just trying to get to him home.
If this wasn't racially motivated, it was still an extremely unnecessary thing to happen to someone just trying to get to his home. She had no business harassing him nor stalking him.
I agree that it was wrong. Nobody should have to be stopped or feel uneasy going to their own home but like I have said before I don't see the racism.
 
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