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What's your general opinion of Christianity?

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machinoman

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Not anymore. Now they're keen on preventing "offense" or "discrimination".
But yeah, single parentage being acceptable is your premise. Christianity doesn't deem it okay, especially not if it's due to one or both parents "splitting up". You do realise divorce doesn't exist in Christianity, right? Once married, it's "till death do you part" if not further. So yeah, if you take a look at Christianity and say "why is A wrong, if B is okay?" when B is not in fact "okay", your argument is not an argument.


This astonishes me. So in Nazi Germany, it was not "murder" to gas the Jews, it was "only" killing. Killing one's slaves wasn't murder either. If laws, man-made laws, determine morality, we are speeding up the road to hell.
And yes, the pro-abortion argument is the pro-slavery argument. As in "we decide who's a person and who isn't". Blacks weren't people, now it's unborn children. Who knows what's next.


Not debatable, debated. Tell me when it is you believe life begins and why. I mean, you're pro-abortion, so you ARE sure you know where life begins. We're talking about possible murder, so anyone who isn't sure when it becomes a murder of a human person is either anti-abortion just "in case" or okay with killing innocent babies. You ain't got much wiggle room here.


The morning-after pill is indeed not okay. Miscarriages aren't murder, they're deaths.

But look, all this stuff is secondary to the discussion. Christianity is not a moral code, it's not a system of laws. It is a belief about reality. At the end of the day, all the viewpoints come out of a single point, follow from the belief in a Three-Personal God, the Creator of the universe, the All-Knowing, All-Mighty Love whom humans turned away from, but He chased relentlessly, saved by becoming a human Himself and dying on the cross, thus paying back the price all humans in all of time sacrificing themselves willingly wouldn't match. The moment the conversation shifts to "is Christianity good?", the point is lost. Whether it's good or not (whatever that would mean) is secondary. You don't ask whether the theory of relativity is "good" but whether it's factual. You don't ask if electrons are good, only whether they exist. You don't ask whether the universe expanding is good, only whether it is true that it does.
The implementations, good or bad, come after establishing facts.
i will comment on when life begins, against my better judgement. why does life begin at conception, besides the biblical reasons? i like to start the clock at brainwaves personally, which starts at week 5/6, although i am one vagina short of qualified to tell a woman when life begins to her.
 

PanTheFaun

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i will comment on when life begins, against my better judgement. why does life begin at conception, besides the biblical reasons? i like to start the clock at brainwaves personally, which starts at week 5/6, although i am one vagina short of qualified to tell a woman when life begins to her.
Just because you aren't a woman doesn't mean you aren't qualified to speak your opinion. Whether she agrees or not doesn't matter.
 
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tri_fin

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Because the rest of the animals in the animal kingdom cooperate in coexistence and don't kill, rape or ostracize other animals. Of course!

Out of all the retarded stuff that has been written here, this takes the cake.

Hiya, what do you mean? I think you may misunderstood my post. Or rather my post was unclear?

My point is that the bible and Jesus (and many religions) simply state; animals and the planet are there for man.

To me animals indeed all living organisms are sentient life and with that comes, well to me at least, rights.

ps By the way animals do all the things you mention and your post is rude.
 

Localhorst86

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I have been baptised and therefore I was a catholic christian. While I received my First Communion, I do not believe in a god (and never did), therefore did not attend what roughly translates to "Firmation". While this already disqualified me from certain aspects of the catholic church (e.g: I am not allowed to marry in a catholic church, etc.), I never bothered to care about church or christianity. Until the first time I had to pay church tax, that is. That was the moment I decided to ex-communicate from church, I am therefore now without confession.

As for other people being christian: I don't really care, as long as they're not trying to use their christianity or beliefs to treat others disrespectful.

So in conclusion: I do not have a positive or negative opinion on christianity itself. I do have a (negative) opinion on certain christians, however.
 

UltraDolphinRevolution

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Just because you aren't a woman doesn't mean you aren't qualified to speak your opinion. Whether she agrees or not doesn't matter.
I don't like how this topic revolves around religion. "Because God" is the worst reason to have regarding this issue.
An unborn child is - biologically speaking - a parasitic human life that drains the physical resources of a woman. In that sense, she has indeed more say in the matter.
On the other hand, she has had sex and explicitly or implicitly consented to the creation of this human being (unless in the case of rape).

With the advance of medicine it might be possible to transfer an unwanted unborn child to a machine (it has already worked with animals apparently).
I'd love to know whether hardcore feminists still insist on the woman having a choice in the matter - if so, then it's no different from certain (religious) parents who believe they have the right to kill their BORN children.
 

PanTheFaun

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I don't like how this topic revolves around religion. "Because God" is the worst reason to have regarding this issue.
An unborn child is - biologically speaking - a parasitic human life that drains the physical resources of a woman. In that sense, she has indeed more say in the matter.
On the other hand, she has had sex and explicitly or implicitly consented to the creation of this human being (unless in the case of rape).

With the advance of medicine it might be possible to transfer an unwanted unborn child to a machine (it has already worked with animals apparently).
I'd love to know whether hardcore feminists still insist on the woman having a choice in the matter - if so, then it's no different from certain (religious) parents who believe they have the right to kill their BORN children.
I never said she didnt have more say. I said that he can share his opinion even if he isnt a woman. Whether she likes his opinion or not doesnt matter.
 

MRJPGames

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Christianity is basically just as toxic as any other religion. And just like any other religion it does a lot of good for people too. It can give them community, or make hard times in their lives easier. Believing in something that is not true can still be a good thing because of this. But I believe you don't need religion for this type of relieve or community, and because of all the toxicity it brings along with it I'd rather live in a world without religion than with.
 

UltraDolphinRevolution

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Gaming can also give people community. ;)

BTW Christian fundamentalists like to talk about Satan a lot. As if he was as powerful (or almost as powerful) as God. This notion probably comes from the Persian influence. The Babylonian exile ended thanks to the Persians (who were tolerant and allowed the Jews to keep their traditions and return to the so-called holy land). The Persians (Zoroastrians) had a dualistic world view (good vs evil).
 
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smf

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Your confusing GOD with Man made religion.

Surely the concept of God only exists within man made religions.

Do we have to prefix every statement with "I believe", or is there something magic about talking about God? Because I only ever say what I believe, but I can be wrong.
 

FAST6191

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Not anymore. Now they're keen on preventing "offense" or "discrimination".
But yeah, single parentage being acceptable is your premise. Christianity doesn't deem it okay, especially not if it's due to one or both parents "splitting up". You do realise divorce doesn't exist in Christianity, right? Once married, it's "till death do you part" if not further. So yeah, if you take a look at Christianity and say "why is A wrong, if B is okay?" when B is not in fact "okay", your argument is not an argument.


This astonishes me. So in Nazi Germany, it was not "murder" to gas the Jews, it was "only" killing. Killing one's slaves wasn't murder either. If laws, man-made laws, determine morality, we are speeding up the road to hell.
And yes, the pro-abortion argument is the pro-slavery argument. As in "we decide who's a person and who isn't". Blacks weren't people, now it's unborn children. Who knows what's next.


Not debatable, debated. Tell me when it is you believe life begins and why. I mean, you're pro-abortion, so you ARE sure you know where life begins. We're talking about possible murder, so anyone who isn't sure when it becomes a murder of a human person is either anti-abortion just "in case" or okay with killing innocent babies. You ain't got much wiggle room here.


The morning-after pill is indeed not okay. Miscarriages aren't murder, they're deaths.

But look, all this stuff is secondary to the discussion. Christianity is not a moral code, it's not a system of laws. It is a belief about reality. At the end of the day, all the viewpoints come out of a single point, follow from the belief in a Three-Personal God, the Creator of the universe, the All-Knowing, All-Mighty Love whom humans turned away from, but He chased relentlessly, saved by becoming a human Himself and dying on the cross, thus paying back the price all humans in all of time sacrificing themselves willingly wouldn't match. The moment the conversation shifts to "is Christianity good?", the point is lost. Whether it's good or not (whatever that would mean) is secondary. You don't ask whether the theory of relativity is "good" but whether it's factual. You don't ask if electrons are good, only whether they exist. You don't ask whether the universe expanding is good, only whether it is true that it does.
The implementations, good or bad, come after establishing facts.

Divorce exists within most protestant takes, Eastern Orthodox, many non denominational takes and technically the pope can grant something akin to one for Roman Catholicism (though that is an exceptionally rare thing, more commonly annulments). http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/ritesrituals/divorce_1.shtml has a bit more.

Within their own framework then yes that would be so, by most international standards (see the trials that followed World War 2 and continue in various capacities to this day) not so much. Furthermore if I recall my high school religious studies then God allows the state in a given instance to rule so they do get to define things as well. Killing slaves depends where and when you are in history -- most Roman law says not OK.

I covered my position in the thread linked but the medical viability without serious intervention seems like a good line to draw for me. I usually go with preventing suffering. Equally I never said miscarriages were murder, I asked if you would investigate them as though they were potential ones?

Christianity, as much as it is any one thing (again there are hundreds of groups commonly with mutually incompatible interpretations, as such the term is a broad collective or a political one, especially in the US), very much seems to have a moral code embedded within it and as a fundamental aspect from everything I have seen. To that end the comparison with aspects of science seems pointless here.
 

Tigran

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All of that is true. Even the previous pope said it himself that evolution is false. Yes Christianity did claim earth was the center of the universe and that the sun goes around earth and not the other way around. Yes the trinity doesn't make sense at all because god, jezus and the holy spirit are all a different entitity but they're also the same entity being god.

But it is ironic when you realize it makes God or Jesus *Which ever.. same guy* a literal Mother Fucker.
 

eworm

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i will comment on when life begins, against my better judgement. why does life begin at conception, besides the biblical reasons? i like to start the clock at brainwaves personally, which starts at week 5/6, although i am one vagina short of qualified to tell a woman when life begins to her.
It's not "biblical reasons", I said that it's because of the genetic code being created and finalized at conception.
And why does life begin at brainwaves, besides no reason given? A person can get into some tragic accident that may render them pretty much braindead. Do they stop being alive? Do they stop being a person? Can they be killed? - and I don't mean "are people allow to kill them", I mean "is it possible to do anything to them that would be 'killing'"? After all, it's not a life, right?

Divorce exists within most protestant takes, Eastern Orthodox, many non denominational takes and technically the pope can grant something akin to one for Roman Catholicism (though that is an exceptionally rare thing, more commonly annulments). http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/ritesrituals/divorce_1.shtml has a bit more.
"Something akin to a divorce", except completely not. Annulment is the recognition that marriage was not real, it didn't happen. It's not a civic marriage we're talking now, it's marriage as a special sacramental bond that God binds two willing people with. And the Church has the God-given power to recognize - not invent or make up, recognize - God's will. It has been determined that God is not willing to grant marriage - which, after all, carries with itself certain limits and responsibilities, not just "privileges" - to people who don't meet some specific conditions - the conditions that have to do with the aforementioned limits and responsibilities. So no, recognizing a marriage wasn't valid, wasn't real, is not nearly the same as "cancelling" a marriage.

I covered my position in the thread linked but the medical viability without serious intervention seems like a good line to draw for me. I usually go with preventing suffering.
Oh, I guess a dead person doesn't suffer any more (if you don't believe in the afterlife), so it makes a twisted, murderous kind of sense to call it "preventing suffering". Just don't try to prevent anyone's suffering yourself, we're still not progressive enough to make that legal.

Seriously, this is a good answer to your later point. Why would I claim Christianity is mostly about "what reality is" rather than a set of moral rules - exactly because you can't make good rules without knowing what reality is like. Whether or not abortion is good or evil depends entirely on whether that fetus, that zygote - is a human life. It's not a moral question - most of us agree on murder being real. But now we disagree on whether this specific thing is a murder or not. It's not a matter of knowing that you should stop your car on the road when a person suddenly walks onto the road - it's a matter of not being sure if that thing you're seeing is a person or not. Because only then will you apply the moral rules and act on them.
If something moved on the street in front of me and it was too dark to be sure if it was a fallen tree branch or a little kid - I would stop nonetheless. The basis premise for all pro-abortion arguments says I shouldn't.
 

Leobgood

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The irony is strong in this thread.

Much like the millionaire athletes, celebrities, politicians etc...
who live in their exclusive neighborhoods and mansions, so divorced from reality, making their money from capitalism telling us how bad it is and how better off we would be under socialism/communism - Venezuela, Soviet Union, China.

So too those fanatics that want to destroy any belief system that is contrary to their own - again, Venezuela, Soviet Union, China, and now Europe.

And we are next.
 

Ratatattat

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The irony is strong in this thread.

Much like the millionaire athletes, celebrities, politicians etc...
who live in their exclusive neighborhoods and mansions, so divorced from reality, making their money from capitalism telling us how bad it is and how better off we would be under socialism/communism - Venezuela, Soviet Union, China.

So too those fanatics that want to destroy any belief system that is contrary to their own - again, Venezuela, Soviet Union, China, and now Europe.

And we are next.

Correct.
Unfortunately those who demean religion do not understand that man is a carnivore with those instincts embedded.
Human society needs controlling mechanisms to stay positive. The two major controlling mechanisms are Government and Religion. Yes it is true atrocities have been committed in the name of both, but those atrocities were always committed by the foxes hiding among the sheep and not the basic premise of the controlling mechanism. With out them there would be chaos. Yes there are individuals that of their own volition have overcome those instincts. But there are many who do not have that self imposed control. Even if there is no God mankind still needs one.
 

kumikochan

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Correct.
Unfortunately those who demean religion do not understand that man is a carnivore with those instincts embedded.
Human society needs controlling mechanisms to stay positive. The two major controlling mechanisms are Government and Religion. Yes it is true atrocities have been committed in the name of both, but those atrocities were always committed by the foxes hiding among the sheep and not the basic premise of the controlling mechanism. With out them there would be chaos. Yes there are individuals that of their own volition have overcome those instincts. But there are many who do not have that self imposed control. Even if there is no God mankind still needs one.
Religion doesn't save society, it causes the destruction of society. I don't know if you have been following the history of Europe but most countries that got destroyedm the pain and suffering of people and so forth was all in the name of religion and to this day forth is still happening thanks to religion seeing the many terror attacks in the name of Islam and so forth. I find it quite funny that it has ALWAYS been religion that caused so many pain, suffering and wars and people here claim that it saves societies ? Don't make me laugh, religion is hardly a good thing and if there wasn't any religion to begin with we as a society on earth would have come much further then the point we are at now seeing religion always blocked progress to try to cling on the power they had. They always blocked progression, revolution just to keep those holy asswhipes in power. I guess you also never heard of stories of your grandmother how kids all got abused by nuns and whipped almost to death in boarding schools where every kid had to go to because the church DEMANDED it. Yeah religion keeps society together cough cough cough
 

JaapDaniels

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Yes, let's assume that most of what we hear from people are lies. That's not gonna cause any problems in our society or even our personal lives. But of course you didn't mean that. You're probably lying about not believing in God. I mean, it's guilty until proven innocent, right?

Secondly, I'm not talking for anyone. I said so before. My argument isn't "all priests are celibate" - my argument is "all Catholic priests are supposed to be celibate and that's not a bad thing". Another is "it is best only to have sex with your spouse". You haven't addressed either thing here.


Oh crap, I knew our priests weren't sneaky enough about installing those mind-control chips in literally everyone, you saw them, huh. You are so right, we are totally taking away people's freedom to have sex by... believing ourselves that it's best not to? Geez, you're so concerned what we think that it's literally controlling your choices and actions, does it? You should probably think for yourself more. And speaking of...


HAHAHA!! Holy sh*t, are you kidding me?
"Hey, Joe, wanna grab some ice-cream?"
"AAH, MY FREE WILL!"
Dude, every thought comes from somewhere, every option we consider we consider because of some suggestion. I saw this thread's title on the right side of the screen. I clicked it - probably not of my own free will, since all I could do at that point is freely consider clicking it or not and then do whatever I wanted. Do you obey the traffic laws? Congratulations, you have no free will apparently. Oh, but wait, you probably drive the car the way you were taught to. You haven't had free will for quite a... Oh, sorry. You only walk and speak because everyone around you when you were a little baby did so. Way to go with the crowd, sheep, how un-free of you.
Sorry, defining "suggestions" as in any way contrary to "free will" is just too dumb.


Clearly you haven't heard about all those "coming-outs" among celebrities. Boosts your popularity like woah, people talk about you again and you even get to be a victim of some horrible things, which nowadays means you're right in everything you say for some reason. I wouldn't be so sure there's not a single hetero star who only "came out" for another five minutes in the spotlight.
But to be fair I'm not gonna claim that's impossible. Unlike your "priests are lying" thing, I ain't judging without a reason to. I just have my doubts is all, that's a popularity-based brutal business, sink or swim, people do desperate things in showbiz to get a single article about them float to the online surface for a moment.

But that's all a digression, sorry. Outside of stories from homosexuals who wish to change, who wish to be able to properly marry, have children, create a healthy family and yes, avoid the temptations they seem as wrong - I have no proof there's any such a homosexual out there. You got me, champ, right from that "being gay is never considered a problem by gay people" bubble of yours.


Wow, we actually agree there. Of course I think that homosexuality is the "connection disruptor", while you think it is the "inner self"... But still, common ground to start out from. We found it after all.


I do not see how any of these tragedies were caused by Christianity. And before you label me as an unreasonable, heartless bastard (if you haven't already), consider the following:

if you want to build a school for poor, uneducated people, that's a noble thing to do. The fact it was a Christian school was because the girl, I assume, believed that it was best to also teach about Christ. the wrongdoers in this case were the rapists, Muslims as you admitted (prepare to be banned for islamophobia, you don't get to state "hateful facts" like that any more) - and they were the enemies of Christianity. Like you, not that I'd ever believe you'd act the same way. So yes, it was their religion that motivated a horrible act (never said I argued all religions are good, I hope you realise that much). It was Christianity that motivated a good one. I hope you're not saying "be a good person unless it's risky"?


Can't even see where anything religious comes into play here. Right now we're seeing many cases where it's the men who can't defend themselves against women's accusations, including false ones, without getting into a firestorm of hate. But again, you haven't addressed what role religion played in those cases? All I'm gonna say is whoever is a part of that "firestorm of hate" (assuming it is hate) is not Christian.


I'm not sure I understand. You mean they got abused by the clergyman or were they abused because they questioned what he was saying? Either way isn't okay and either way isn't Christian. Every reason you give for refusing Christianity is because someone called something that isn't Christianity "Christianity" and you didn't like that thing. Would you hate cats if you were attacked by a dog in early childhood and told that was a cat?


Well, okay, bad parents and bad friends are a staple of Christianity and Christianity exclusively. So is depression and self-doubt and all other psychological problems. Is there any doubt that Christianity is being supported and founded by the rich psychiatrists corporations?


Okay, that surely isn't Christians you're talking about. Sounds more like Islam to me. Either way, another anecdotal evidence that proves "people can be assholes" rather than "religion makes people assholes". And you don't have to prove people can be assholes, that's a well-known fact. That's why we have standards by which to judge others' and our own actions and choices, so that we avoid becoming total assholes beyond redemption. Standards like the Judeo-Christian ones that the Western civilisation is based on?


I have no doubt it does. I don't know how much control you have in these situations, but guess what actual Christianity - as opposed to what you've called Christianity - would recommend? Being the person who stands with the victim in that firestorm of hate. Being the friend that homosexual self-doubting person can openly talk to. Cheering people up, supporting them - not all their actions, not all their beliefs and not all their choices - but people. I hope you'll find some real Christians eventually. Or that you notice them if they're already around.

EDIT: Okay, just realised that sounded like I equate "real Christians" with "good people" or even claim the latter are most common in the former group. Not what I meant. in fact, the best Christian will be the first one to reject being called "a good Christian". By "real Christians" I meant not good people, but people who believe in Christianity - not just believe that they believe in Christianity. True belief will inevitably manifest itself in actions - not without effort and not without many failures. But it will be visible. It's like a difference between "fan" and "fanboy". One really loves a game/show/etc - the other just loves loving it.
first one first: no i'm not talking all priest are cheating, but i have been in a "klooster" (sorry i don't know the english word for it), and well from all that i met just only one didn't know the feeling.
second one: no i never talked about mind control, just that god uses blackmail to keep people who're willing to leave faith in the group, and make them do a lot o things that are in contradiction to thier own will. this by: warning about the other afterlife, telling the rest of the group that those who leave are the deamons among us and sepparating so fammilies that once where a pack.
blackmail is a powerfull weapon of god, and if that fails, then there's allways been the stone anyone who take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. i can go on this list but i doubt you ever read the book yourself, then again there's not just one bible, but there are tons of different bibles, and they contradict themselves over and over.
third one: what village do you live? since it's against about any law to tell people that they got served hell on earth for not buying the hamburger of the day.
fouth one: you really see a celebritty as normal person down your street? gosh, that explains the lack of checking facts.
fifth one: what is that claim remove that one now! for really it makes me mad! there's no way there's anything we've got common from this point on...
sixth one: why do you chance my words when it is in your favour? i said religion when i mean all religions, and christians when i mean christians.
seventh one: it's really shamefull you talk about your relligion is better, since it distoyed a lot more lives then the one you claim to be bad.
eighth one: no you didn't understand it that was clear in your first post. it comes back to the blackmailing part.
ninth one: read your book again for when the bible calls rape/abuse rape/abuse. it'll tell you girls are responsible for sex when they didn't scream for help (wich is to be heard by at least 2 people other then the victem or predator), for when they didn't say no for at least 3 times,
tenth one: no okay the parents are a bit to blame, but the church was the one thing that kept popping up about doom and hell (wich looked legit when you never really test the teachings if you're hetero sexual), this is hard to those who don't have the brain power to search for truth more then the pries and bible telling me so it must be truth.
yes i'hold them responsible for failing to try and see the story from his side at least ones. the priest and writer of the hatefull parts, let's just say it's a shame i know there's no hell for them.
eleventh one: christian and it's as common as in islam.
twelfth one: you really are pushing right? it's a joke i assume? well if there is hell see you there, no way around it!
 

Leobgood

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Religion doesn't save society, it causes the destruction of society. I don't know if you have been following the history of Europe but most countries that got destroyedm the pain and suffering of people...seeing the many terror attacks in the name of Islam...Yeah religion keeps society together cough cough cough
What!? You are comparing Christianity and by extension all religions to a 14th century political ideology bent on killing all non-believers. Wow! Well you know there's no stopping those Buddhist terrorists or those damn Amish with their hordes of death mauling machines.
 

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