Interview with ConsoleClassiX - the online ROM rental service

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A few weeks back, we told you about a rather unique service called ConsoleClassix, who allows players to enjoy a large variety of ROMs in exchange for a paid subscription. This service is considered to be legal by its owner due to the fact that players don't actually get to save the ROM files on their computers, instead, games are loaded in RAM and lost when the emulator shuts down (thus considered to be a 'rental service'). Additionally, for each instance of a game running at a given time, ConsoleClassix actually owns a physical copy.

We have contacted Aaron Ethridge, founder and owner at ConsoleClassix, who kindly accepted to answer our questions.

Interview with Aaron Ethridge @ ConsoleClassix


Q1: Can you describe ConsoleClassiX in a few sentences, for those of our readers who haven't yet heard of it?

Console Classix is a video game rental service. It works much like Red Box, but the “renter” doesn't get physical possession of the game they are renting at the time. The game is also electronically delivered to them, in much the same way a Netflix video is. Philosophically, ethically, and legally, Console Classix works just like Blockbuster. (Well, like an online Blockbuster that didn't go out of business.)



Q2: How did you come up with this idea? Some of our users have called it 'brilliant'.

Although it may offend some people, I honestly believe I was inspired. Me and a partner of mine were trying to work on a way to legally sell ROMs to people, but the gaming industry seemed... we'll say “resistant”... to the idea. Finally, after a long night of discussion, I gave up and went to bed. As soon as my head hit the pillow, it struck me: we wouldn't sell the games, we would rent them. After that, the legal chips fell right into place.



Q3: How profitable is your service? Do you make a living off of it? Do you have any employees to help you with the business?

It was quite profitable in the past. Interest in retro-gaming seems to wax and wane. At our high point, I worked for CC full time and had four employees working with me in an office we owned. That was years ago, however. Everyone has moved on, and I maintain it alone now. It pays it's own bills, but not a great deal more.

I hope to change that in time (by adding newer systems and games). I don't have a great deal of spare time to work on it at the moment, however. I'm a full-time network engineer and novelist. (I also work on video games when I get the chance.) I want to build CC back up, but it will probably be a few more months before I can really get started.



Q4: Do you believe ConsoleClassiX to be in a kind of gray area, from a legal standpoint?

Not at all. It's completely black and white. We own the games, so we have the legal right to rent them out. We have the right to let people play them on PC, so we have the right to copy them off the carts. The law is completely (and clearly) on our side.



Q5: How would you react if Nintendo or other big corporations became serious about taking the matter to court?

We would do our best to fight them. For their part, they would be extremely foolish to try it. At the moment, most people believe what we're doing is in the “gray” at the very least (if not simply illegal). If we were sued and lost, none of the countess illegal ROM sites on the Internet would vanish. However, if we were sued and won, Netflix (and countless other Mom and Pop sites) would offer a service like ours within days of the verdict.



Q6: Do you welcome publicity from big sites such as Ars Technica giving you a lot of attention, or would you rather stay in the shadows?

My attitude is: Shout about us from the rooftops!

The argument could be made that the more attention we get, the more likely we are to be sued, but my counter-point would be: the more money we have in our “war chest” the more likely we would be to win.



Q7: How do you plan on growing where your direct competition is piracy, and games are being more and more readily available?

A lot of people like to do the right thing. They also like to know they're not going to get “WannaCry” or some other terrible virus when they download something. We've never seen the pirate sites as competition. They don't offer the same product we do. (Even if the product is similar.)

That was my theory when I decided to start CC. A lot of people laughed at the idea. Then CC made a great deal of money, and they stopped laughing.

The business model could withstand competition when we started it up in 2001, and it can withstand it now.



Q8: A few members from our community signed up for an account at ConsoleClassix after reading our article, but they ran into a few issues with the website (expired certificate, plain text passwords, etc.) Do you plan to make improvements to the website, as a response to criticism?

Yes! The site has “decayed” during the past 12 months.(My primary gig at the moment is network engineering for a tier 2 ISP, and I've been VERY busy during the last year. I hope to get those issues fixed before January 2019. Lord willing, I'll find the time.)



Q9: Do you have any long term plans for expansion, perhaps adding more games, or systems? Is there anything your users should look forward to?

Yes! I really want to get CC moving forward again. There is a great deal we can add now. Years have gone by since our last major update and technological advancements have made it possible to use our model (potentially) with systems like the PlayStation.

I have a lot of plans. Just not a lot of time ATM.



Q10: Are you much of a gamer yourself? What's your all-time top 3 favorite games?

I am. And, this is a hard question. No matter what I say, I'll get cheers and boos. Lol.

For console, I would probably say:
- The Legend of Zelda
- Super Mario World
- Fire Emblem (for the GBA)

For PC, let's say:
- Quest for Glory (I – IV, V was painful)
- Privateer (the old Origin game – I also just started playing Elite Dangerous. I want VR...)
- Dwarf Fortress (I've only been playing for a few years, but I love it)

There are a great deal more than that, obviously (and, my answers might be different tomorrow), but those are some of my favorites.



End of interview


If you liked this interview, you might also enjoy the previous issues in our series of exclusive interviews:

:arrow: ConsoleClassix.com: if you are intrigued, check out their site to learn more
 

blahblah

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I'm quite familiar, actually. Your milage may vary depending on where you live, however ultimately one copy is being accessed at a time, its contents are being stored in RAM as they would've been on the original platform and they are not using more copies than the number specified in the license, nor are they distributing unlicensed copies. For all intents and purposes, legally, this is no different than you coming to your friend's house and playing a game on their system, except it's performed over the Internet. The "copy" is always digital, the physical storage medium is irrelevant to the conversation as far as software is concerned.

If you were familiar, you wouldn’t be posting stuff like this.
 

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If you were familiar, you wouldn’t be posting stuff like this.
That's your interpretation of the law in your jurisdiction, matters are very different across the world. That's neither here nor there though, this isn't a thread about the legality of rentals delivered over the cloud.
 

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That's your interpretation of the law in your jurisdiction, matters are very different across the world. That's neither here nor there though, this isn't a thread about the legality of rentals delivered over the cloud.

There is extensive case law on this subject. This service is not legal in all jurisdictions of note. The end. Talk to any attorney familiar with the relevant case law.
 

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There is extensive case law on this subject. This service is not legal in all jurisdictions of note. The end. Talk to any attorney familiar with the relevant case law.
Provide a case then. You're perfectly entitled to creating a backup copy of your software for archival purposes and you're free to use it provided you are not using more than the amount of copies specified in your license, which in the case of video games is one copy. Additionally, you can use any means necessary to run the software on your platform. You also must destroy your backup if you choose to resell your original copy, which is irrelevant here as no copies are sold. The delivery method is completely unimportant as you're not a distributor, you're a license holder - you don't own the software, you have a right to utilise a certain number of copies concurrently on a machine of choice.
 

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Provide a case then. You're perfectly entitled to creating a backup copy of your software for archival purposes and you're free to use it provided you are not using more than the amount of copies specified in your license. You also must destroy your backup if you choose to resell your original copy, which is irrelevant here as no copies are sold. The delivery method is completely unimportant as you're not a distributor, you're a license holder - you don't own the software, you have a right to utilise a certain number of copies concurrently on a machine of choice.

What am I, Westlaw as a service? 'ConsoleClassiX' is not a new concept. In order to offer this service, one has to defeat content control mechanism (aka DRM, the defeat of such is illegal in most jurisdictions) and transmit protected work (aka out and about criminal piracy, which is illegal in near all jurisdictions) over the internet. You know this, yet you pretend there is something interesting and novel going on here.

Exceptions for making backups do not allow the defeat of copyright control mechanisms. That's why it's legal to backup an audio CD but not legal to backup a DVD movie - the DRM makes the difference. Game cartridges contain DRM mechanisms intended to prevent the dumping of the carts. The game code itself contains DRM designed to prevent piracy - Nintendo was famous for that during the NES/SNES/N64 eras, only backing off it much later in life. Sega did the same thing. That the DRM code is not triggered by the emulator only makes things worse - there was an overt effort to defeat DRM at play here.

The bulk of your post is myths and a complete lack of understanding of law, in a similar fashion to '24 hour exception! Roms are legal!' stuff.
 
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Foxi4

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What am I, Westlaw as a service? 'ConsoleClassiX' is not a new concept. In order to offer this service, one has to defeat content control mechanism (aka DRM, the defeat of such is illegal in most jurisdictions) and transmit protected work (aka out and about criminal piracy, which is illegal in near all jurisdictions) over the internet. You know this, yet you pretend there is something interesting and novel going on here.

Exceptions for making backups do not allow the defeat of copyright control mechanisms. That's why it's legal to backup an audio CD but not legal to backup a DVD movie - the DRM makes the difference. Game cartridges contain DRM mechanisms intended to prevent the dumping of the carts. The game code itself contains DRM designed to prevent piracy. You know this, yet you persist. That the DRM code is not triggered by the emulator only makes things worse - there was an overt effort to defeat DRM at play here.

The bulk of your post is myths and a complete lack of understanding of law, in a similar fashion to '24 hour exception! Roms are legal!' stuff.
Okay. Let's have a look at the Copyright Act.

17 U.S. Code § 117 - Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs

(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner,
I must dump a cartridge (create a copy in the form of a ROM image) in order to utilise it on a PC, my machine, instead of a console and the Copyright Act permits me to do so. It is a necessary step required to utilise the software which I am entitled to.
(b) Lease, Sale, or Other Transfer of Additional Copy or Adaptation.

Any exact copies prepared in accordance with the provisions of this section may be leased, sold, or otherwise transferred, along with the copy from which such copies were prepared, only as part of the lease, sale, or other transfer of all rights in the program. Adaptations so prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner.
An exact image can be leased or sold provided it is transferred along with the original. The legal question here is whether a ROM would be considered an exact copy or an adaptation, and whether the provision even applies to rentals if the copy never leaves the server and is only accessed remotely. I say it is an exact copy as it is a bit-to-bit representation of the software on the cartridge, nothing was changed in the software to adapt it for use besides changing the storage medium.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/117

Would you like to rephrase your statement?
 
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blahblah

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Okay. Let's have a look at the Copyright Act.

I must dump a cartridge (create a copy in the form of a ROM image) in order to utilise it on a PC instead of a console and the Copyright Act permits me to do so.
An exact image can be leased or sold provided it is transferred along with the original. The legal question here is whether a ROM would be considered an exact copy or an adaptation, and whether the provision even applies to rentals if the copy never leaves the server and is only accessed remotely.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/117

Would you like to rephrase your statement?

Look, talk to a lawyer. They will backup what I am saying. The issue at play here isn't the Copyright Act, it is other law. DMCA, for one. You should focus on the access control mechanisms that are being defeated.

There's a reason no actual proper company offers a service like the one at play here. There is a reason iTunes does not allow you to rip DVD movies, yet allows it for audio CD. The reason is the law. This service is not even close to being legal. Please familiarize yourself with the law. 17 USC 506 is a good starting point.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Its been running since 2001 lol. Its not going anywhere, anytime soon...

ROM sites are left running for ages, as the cost and effort required to shut them down is often not worth it. That ISO Site is still up, torrent sites from 2005 are still running. Enforcement is not an indicator of legality.
 
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Look, talk to a lawyer. They will backup what I am saying. The issue at play here isn't the Copyright Act, it is other law. DMCA, for one. You should focus on the access control mechanisms that are being defeated.

There's a reason no actual proper company offers a service like the one at play here. There is a reason iTunes does not allow you to rip DVD movies, yet allows it for audio CD. The reason is the law. This service is not even close to being legal. Please familiarize yourself with the law. 17 USC 506 is a good starting point.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ROM sites are left running for ages, as the cost and effort required to shut them down is often not worth it. That ISO Site is still up, torrent sites from 2005 are still running. Enforcement is not an indicator of legality.
No copies are being distributed, hence section 506 cannot apply. Good attempt though. Again, *being familiar* with the subject matter, the only aspect of the operation that's questionable is the method of delivery and the renting procedure, which would have to be argued orally in front of a judge and jury. As for the DMCA, it is not globally binding, so it's a moot point. I started off by saying that your milage may vary depending on jurisdiction and maintain that stance, each country has a different way of approaching those issues. The difference between this service and the average piracy hub is precisely in the way copies are controlled for, and since they are not *creating and distributing* unauthorised copies, it's a very interesting case.
 

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No copies are being distributed, hence section 506 cannot apply. Good attempt though. Again, *being familiar* with the subject matter, the only aspect of the operation that's questionable is the method of delivery and the renting procedure, which would have to be argued orally in front of a judge and jury. As for the DMCA, it is not globally binding, so it's a moot point. I started off by saying that your milage may vary depending on jurisdiction and maintain that stance, each country has a different way of approaching those issues. The difference between this service and the average piracy hub is precisely in the way copies are controlled for, and since they are not *creating and distributing* unauthorised copies, it's a very interesting case.

You don't understand the legal concepts at hand here - distribution of a copy is well defined and absolutely includes the transfer, over the internet, of work onto an end users PC (even on a temporary basis, even into RAM). You don't understand the fundamental nature of the law - that it is not a system of clever wordplay, that attempting to evade criminal liability on account of a bad faith reading of the text gets you slapped around by the court. Please talk to a lawyer.
 
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You don't understand the legal concepts at hand here. Please talk to a lawyer.
You can continue saying that, that doesn't make you right. You seem to have a tough time disconnecting the non-physical idea of software and the license that enables you to use it and the physical piece of plastic the software was given to you in. This pertains software, a bunch of code, that's what's being discussed here. Whether it's on the cartridge, in RAM or carved into a pineapple is completely irrelevant to the conversation - in this case it's being held in RAM in order to be used on a modern machine. The crux of the issue is whether access to said machine virtually constitutes rental and whether such a procedure is legal - we've already established that making and running those copies is legal, as per the Copyright Act, at least in the USA.
 
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You can continue saying that, that doesn't make you right. You seem to have a tough time disconnecting the non-physical idea of software and the license that enables you to use it and the physical piece of plastic the software was given to you in. This pertains software, a bunch of code, that's what's being discussed here. Whether it's on the cartridge, in RAM or carved into a pineapple is completely irrelevant to the conversation - in this case it's being held in RAM in order to be used on a modern machine. The crux of the issue is whether access to said machine virtually constitutes rental and whether such a procedure is legal - we've already established that making and running those copies is legal, as per the Copyright Act, at least in the USA.

Case law says I am right. The courts have said I am right time and time again. Any qualified attorney will say I am right. It's really not complicated.

You are operating in both bad faith and ignorance, reading one section of the US Code without reading related others that clearly & purposefully define in what scenarios making a copy is legal. Hint: ones where access control mechanisms have to be bypassed need not apply.
 

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I think we're done here, have a good day.

Oh, believe me, we've been done for a long time. You do not have the intellectual basis for intelligent conversation about the law - you do not understand the law and refuse to actually read it in an effort to become better.
 

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Oh, believe me, we've been done for a long time. You do not have the intellectual basis for intelligent conversation about the law - you do not understand the law and refuse to actually read it in an effort to become better.
You have a really tough time understanding how this service works, which is probably the source of your confusion.

"We talked to a lawyer before we even filed the paperwork to found the business," Ethridge told Ars in a recent interview. "After that, we contacted a law firm that specialized in copyright law to help us keep the hounds at bay."

The client-server architecture of the Console Classix software, Etheridge argued, is legally distinct from "publishing" ROM images on the Internet. "When a client requests a game image, the server places this image into the client random access memory (RAM)," he wrote. Since the client's RAM copy of the game is destroyed as soon as the client-server connection is broken, no illegal permanent "distribution" of a ROM copy has occurred, Ethridge wrote.

"This application also ensures that no more copies of a software package are in use than are in our possession," he wrote. "We are also granted the right to lease copies of a software in our possession, provided we also ensure the customers' rights to the original software."

The site operates in accordance to the law specified in section 117 of the code. This has been confirmed by the lawyers involved in setting the company up. It can be challenged in court, but so far it hasn't, despite a number of lawsuit threats from a variety of companies, including Nintendo. There are some *similar* cases, but none that are specifically like this where great care went into upholding the license terms and never creating an unauthorised copy of the code. As far as this website is concerned, it is far from clear whether a judgement would be in favour of the site or the copyright holders, and with some luck it will not be challenged in court, as it hasn't been for the last 17 years.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018...library-solve-classic-gamings-piracy-problem/
 

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You have a really tough time understanding how this service works, which is probably the source of your confusion.



The site operates in accordance to the law specified in section 117 of the code. This has been confirmed by the lawyers involved in setting the company up. It can be challenged in court, but so far it hasn't, despite a number of lawsuit threats from a variety of companies, including Nintendo. There are some *similar* cases, but none that are specifically like this where great care went into upholding the license terms and never creating an unauthorised copy of the code. As far as this website is concerned, it is far from clear whether a judgement would be in favour of the site or the copyright holders, and with some luck it will not be challenged in court, as it hasn't been for the last 17 years.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018...library-solve-classic-gamings-piracy-problem/

I fully understand how the service works. It remains an illegal operation.

Again: Talk to a lawyer. One can not 'operate' in accordance with one portion of the US Code while ignoring others. Unless you demonstrate substantial improvement in your understanding of US law, I am not going to engage with you further.
 

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