What would be considered as a copyright violation for open source code?

mariogamer · Aug 10, 2018

So, from gbatemp's rules:

...this includes (but is NOT limited to) - licensed and copyrighted software, code, movies, music, video games, magazines, comics, e-books, television shows, illegal torrents, etc. These rules also account for "keygens" and "cracks" including how to obtain, apply or install them.

This mean it is applicable to some software such as the tx sx os.

However, it seems like this rule isn't truly applied for open source software. Most of them in hacking scenes uses the gpl v2 or v3.

Even tho it is open source code, license exist for it. And the gpl is known to permit software distribution if:
a: proper copyright notices were added
b: forked software may stay on the open source domain (and still have the gpl license)

This is appliable to other license, but the gpl is probably the biggest one.

My main question, are open source code treated the same? And what would be considered as a violation? Answer is already known for the first question ( because of some things certain scenes, you may easily notice that it is not).

How will open source code be treated in this case?

FAST6191 · Aug 11, 2018

mariogamer said:
In the current way it is applied, no.

And if they care so much why won't they do anything against? Just because of those 1-2 new features.
And I'll repeat it again and again. It is still a copyright voliation.

What would you suggest to people as an alternative for similar ease of use and reliability? Could be XCI format still (and from what I understand it is likely to become the dominant format) or something that achieves the equivalent result.

What do you propose is done against them? I already said it would be nice if they open source it. Further things could be done but we would have to figure out what they are first.

WiiUBricker · Aug 11, 2018

Back in the glory Wii hacking days, a developer released a mod of a GPL’d backup loader / softmod suite here at GBAtemp but refused to release the source. The original developer/s complained to the mods and they decided to ban all download links to it. GBAtemp is not always consistent when dealing with such things.

Ryccardo · Aug 11, 2018

mariogamer said:
Ps.: they did almost nothing better excpet for one big feature that "the public" love that is xci backup loading

Exactly, and Fr33 G4m3z is, I strongly bet, THE most desired feature that nobody else is (currently) supplying

Make drugs/guns/* illegal, don't be surprised if a significant number of consumers turns to the black market

mariogamer · Aug 11, 2018

Actually as i said there is tinfoil for installing. And nsps are probably better. Also tinfoil will probably implement xci installation.
But why is it a must anyways?

FAST6191 said:
What do you propose is done against them? I already said it would be nice if they open source it. Further things could be done but we would have to figure out what they are first.

Honestly on a website side you may simply tell the user that it has been proven. It won't really fix it, but at least you did something.
Actually doing something against those "** version is out" or review might be good... But welll might be more complexe I guess.

FAST6191 · Aug 11, 2018

If I am hacking a device I want it to be able to install any kind of file it knows, install modified versions of any kind of file it knows, to run code of my choosing from any source, I want cheats (debugging is also nice if good PC emulators do not exist), I want the ability to throw my saves/user data around however I like... basically as though it was a free and clear device to fiddle with according to my whims.
Anything that provides something of that list that another does not will be of interest to me. "will probably" presumably means "not at this point" and as I live in "this point" rather than "possible future" I go with what is easy.

Gamecard formats vs downloadable content formats... I would rather have both but I will take whatever works, or if one is less hassle then that. At the time the gamecard formats seemed to be a better choice.

People already know. We had several discussions on the matter. For the latter stuff why would I want to block news of updates or the opinions of those that fiddled with it?

Insidious611 · Aug 11, 2018

FAST: I should clarify that I have no problem with you or anyone reporting on illegal things, especially given this community and its interests. There is nothing wrong with journalism of this sort.

I do have a problem with people violating the licenses of open source projects and acting as though that's a lesser form of copyright infringement when it's just plain copyright infringement, but to be fair you haven't done that explicitly.

As to whether the developers of other CFWs have moral qualms with piracy-enabling software, for one I think it should be acknowledged that it's their right to have said qualms, but I also think that most of the development here is happening on GitHub and many employers for software development GitHub-stalk their developers, so it's probably a good idea not to have that kind of thing going on on your page. As such I somewhat doubt that the entire team's qualms are completely moral, moreso than they're practical and societal.

I'm entirely convinced, for example, that naerhwhert (I can never spell the name right apologies) abandoned his repo after Hekate was incorrectly linked to piracy not because he personally was offended morally by this but because he did not want a project that mentions piracy in the first few google results associated with his handle.

Re: The DMCA it's worth noting that if something is copyrighted in the US, certain provisions of the DMCA, including takedown notices and the obligation as a host of content to remove it, does apply internationally, no matter where you're hosted. This is for the same reason that copyrights from one country apply to others: Treaties that establish the bounds and effects of international copyright law. This is something I learned personally the hard way working systems administration for a web host based in Europe.

It's also worth noting that moderated content exposes the people hosting that content to more liability than unmoderated content for the purposes of DMCA safe harbor. In other words, a place like a forum where people post things and moderators moderate them exposes the moderators, admins, and site itself to liability. And a web host which curates what's allowed to be hosted on its service is exposed to liability for anything that is contained on that service. This is why most webhosts are hands off until a report comes in: It is actually better for them liability-wise to be an unmoderated platform, because in that case you are merely responsible for taking down content on the copyright holders request, you are not liable beyond this responsibility.

mariogamer · Aug 11, 2018

Insidious611 said:
I do have a problem with people violating the licenses of open source projects and acting as though that's a lesser form of copyright infringement when it's just plain copyright infringement, but to be fair you haven't done that explicitly.

It's actually the problem that I see.

Why are you always falling back on "what the public want"? We both know the public won't apply any copyright rules.
website rulers should care more, because it woild be a nice way to get it fixed.

Off topic:

Insidious611 said:
the development here is happening on GitHub and many employers for software development GitHub-stalk their developers,

What do you mean Github-stalk?

FAST6191 · Aug 12, 2018

mariogamer said:
It's actually the problem that I see.

Why are you always falling back on "what the public want"? We both know the public won't apply any copyright rules.
website rulers should care more, because it woild be a nice way to get it fixed.

Off topic:

What do you mean Github-stalk?

On the *stalk thing then when network computers became a thing it turns out you could go through histories to find out things, just like a real life stalker. Companies looking to hire coders will see if they have contributed to open source software and as github is/was the most popular place to do a project... That way you can see how much coding they do, what languages they lean on/are proficient in, what sorts of projects they do, how many and what their errors are, what sort of tests they run, what their non interview coding style is... all far more effective than getting someone to do a fizzbuzz variant or whatever you half remembered and never understood in whatever edition of "programmer interview techniques for non coders" you have to hand. Most commonly you will see the phrase facebook-stalk or probably "cyber-stalk", classic one being someone looking up their ex boyfriend/girlfriend and seeing what they are doing now.

I agree the public generally does not give two hoots about copyright (see also how many times you would have to explain the differences between copyright, patents and trademarks, never mind something most have never heard of like design rights, registered designs or the nuances of patents). However the idea that we should consider not reporting on updates, releases and such that may bruise open source IP concerns, especially when the results are something people would want to know about, seems very strange to me.

smf · Aug 12, 2018

mariogamer said:
And I'll repeat it again and again. It is still a copyright voliation.

Maybe, not all source code can be copyrighted. Nintendo could argue that parts of Atmosphere are derivatives of Horizon OS and can't be released under the GPL either (Nintendo could also argue that the rest of Atmosphere is a DMCA violation).

Insidious611 · Aug 12, 2018

The latter would be more likely to hold up in court than the former. The right to reverse engineer has been repeatedly affirmed in both European and US courts, and as long as said reverse engineering is "clean" (ie, did not involve directly looking at existing code) it is generally considered legal. Proving this would involve a long, involved code audit.

linuxares · Aug 12, 2018

Insidious611 said:
Re: The DMCA it's worth noting that if something is copyrighted in the US, certain provisions of the DMCA, including takedown notices and the obligation as a host of content to remove it, does apply internationally, no matter where you're hosted. This is for the same reason that copyrights from one country apply to others: Treaties that establish the bounds and effects of international copyright law. This is something I learned personally the hard way working systems administration for a web host based in Europe.

First, the DMCA have no jurisdiction outside the US. It's an American law, nothing more, nothing less. For more information for the EU it's here: https://www.dmca.com/faq/European-DMCA-Takedown-process
We have discussed SX OS before as Moderators. What we have decided or not is not up for discussion.

Second, The Reswitched team know very well how to contact us if they wish to discuss more.

Insidious611 · Aug 12, 2018

I stand corrected re the DMCA.

As to the latter bit, I'm not certain how that has anything to do with me.

mariogamer · Aug 15, 2018

FAST6191 said:
On the *stalk thing then when network computers became a thing it turns out you could go through histories to find out things, just like a real life stalker. Companies looking to hire coders will see if they have contributed to open source software and as github is/was the most popular place to do a project... That way you can see how much coding they do, what languages they lean on/are proficient in, what sorts of projects they do, how many and what their errors are, what sort of tests they run, what their non interview coding style is... all far more effective than getting someone to do a fizzbuzz variant or whatever you half remembered and never understood in whatever edition of "programmer interview techniques for non coders" you have to hand. Most commonly you will see the phrase facebook-stalk or probably "cyber-stalk", classic one being someone looking up their ex boyfriend/girlfriend and seeing what they are doing now.

I agree the public generally does not give two hoots about copyright (see also how many times you would have to explain the differences between copyright, patents and trademarks, never mind something most have never heard of like design rights, registered designs or the nuances of patents). However the idea that we should consider not reporting on updates, releases and such that may bruise open source IP concerns, especially when the results are something people would want to know about, seems very strange to me.

Thanks for explaning.

If updates are about new features, you might actually promote what is new but still say it is wrong to blablabla. However thoses features are copy paste.

linuxares said:
First, the DMCA have no jurisdiction outside the US. It's an American law, nothing more, nothing less. For more information for the EU it's here: https://www.dmca.com/faq/European-DMCA-Takedown-process
We have discussed SX OS before as Moderators. What we have decided or not is not up for discussion.

Second, The Reswitched team know very well how to contact us if they wish to discuss more.

That's real. They need to contact you. (for something they still established since a while).
eh forgot to mention would tx need to contact you for removing a crack?

mariogamer · Aug 21, 2018

Actuallly another bump. Surprised that no one has answered after a week.

I also might add that tx updates always get on the front page while clwarly being copies.

(Tho this is not only about tx, as I said earlier)
E

mariogamer · Sep 11, 2018

May I ask again why this isn't a priority while cracks of sx os are "illegal" on the site.
(sorry for these repetitive message, but no one answers)

tbb043 · Sep 12, 2018

SXOS is a commercial product, of course cracks against it are going to be taken more seriously then "boo hoo you stole the open source free shit and copied it" whiny stuff. Same reason romz and warez aren't allowed on the site, they want the site to continue to exist and allowing paid for stuff to be infringed on is more serious (to the authorities) than free stuff.

mariogamer · Sep 12, 2018

tbb043 said:
SXOS is a commercial product, of course cracks against it are going to be taken more seriously then "boo hoo you stole the open source free shit and copied it" whiny stuff. Same reason romz and warez aren't allowed on the site, they want the site to continue to exist and allowing paid for stuff to be infringed on is more serious (to the authorities) than free stuff.

I'd get why people are thinking like this. But cppyright 'n licenses matter as much in private and open source softwares.
Big companies actually need to respect gpl, or they'll get sued (and it already hapenned).

Quantumcat · Sep 12, 2018

mariogamer said:
May I ask again why this isn't a priority while cracks of sx os are "illegal" on the site.
(sorry for these repetitive message, but no one answers)

Reswitched said they have no interest in taking any action against TX so it is probably safe to say the site isn't in any danger from it.

What would be considered as a copyright violation for open source code?

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