Last game skill you "unlearned"

tempy_thinker.png

Heuristics is a term used in game design to describe a concept where the maths, comprehension or similar required is beyond a given person, or at least the time given for them to contemplate the problem, and the instead develop things that "will do". With many games being mathematically mind boggling* and commonly reaction based game playing types will inevitably create their own for games.

*chess is commonly considered here where the number of potential states of a board after 6 moves apiece is astronomical. A game like street fighter probably has that beat after a few frames.

Mario Kart provides some of the purest examples of this. For instance do you know the position of every other racer in the game? As it is a rubber band affair and set after the first race in many instances then do you know the positions of last race and thus what might go here? Do you know what weapons they have? Can you create the equivalent of this for cornering Chances are the answers to those are
No (but there is a map if I need it)
Not unless the points difference matters or might matter.
Not unless I see it coming for me or just passed it (unless I am in first place then oh dear blue shell alert)
No but I sort of "feel it" and "know where to go".
Consider also that many "competitive" players will have "better" answers to those questions.
It also provides nice examples of the second aspect of this discussion. Compare either turbo starts or cornering/corner boost tactics between the various versions. If you put in a lot of time in one then how is either going to a sequel or returning to an old game and having to deal with "muscle memory" in some way? It need not be a sequel either and could just be another game in the same gameplay style.

We can go a bit more abstract as well. What do you do when you encounter inverted look controls or occasions where strafe and turn are "swapped"?

Speaking of heuristics a fine example was once relayed on Mario Kart. Is first place in the lead? Many would answer yes. Others that sit and think about it would consider the equalising potential of the mighty blue shell and maybe instead point at a close second place character.

This is part of series on GBAtemp where we have some discussion of aspects of the game industry, game design and related topics. Previously we discussed The game you invested the most money in.


Hopefully this time not all the primary examples were taken in the opening post and you can then join in discussing times where you had to "unlearn" a skill, heuristic or control preference for a game as well as other interesting aspects related to it.
 
D

Deleted User

Guest
I've been playing loads of Monster Hunter World recently (logged my 300th hour yesterday if that tells you anything.) Monster Hunter has plenty of quirks on its own, but I won't be getting into those. What I'd like to mention is the weapons - each weapon has its own playstyle. Sure, many have similar points in their playstyles, but to truly grasp any one weapon, you have to spend enough time with it to figure out its nuances. Something else that's important to factor in here is personal playstyle. I'll define "personal playstyle" as a way of thinking as opposed to a "weapon playstyle," one that suits that weapon the best for maximum efficiency.

My friend and I were discussing our personal playstyles yesterday - he goes for riskier plays and doesn't always get his health in a good range. I, on the other hand, make sure that I can tank a hit at almost all times. He'll go in with maybe half a health bar or less to get that play which gives him a large opening for damage. I do what I can defensively and only go for large damage-dealing singular hits. If you've played Monster Hunter, you can probably guess at which weapons we like to use the most.

I'm most comfortable using the Greatsword, where my friend is most comfortable using the Longsword.

The Greatsword is a slow, tactical weapon that you have to charge up for maximum damage. It comes with two defensive options - a block, which uses the literal sword to block an attack, or a shoulder tackle, which, when timed correctly, reduces the damage taken as well as eliminates knockback. It features some of the best singular damage-dealing attacks out of any weapon. But because it's slow, you have to constantly sheath it so you're not walking around with weights on your legs.
The Longsword is different. No blocking capabilities, but it does feature a counter. Hard to pull off, yet a Godsend when you can. It's a fluid weapon with small evasive capabilities thanks to a move that pushes you away in a direction. From what I've experienced, each move can be chained into one another. The main mechanic is the "Spirit Gauge," which, for simplicity's sake, will increase your damage when correctly leveled. Maximizing efficiency with it means getting that gauge to the highest level, which also requires the connection of a certain combo. High risk, high reward, which is why my friend excels here.

Yesterday we played a match with each other for fun while using opposite weapons.

In order to get the gauge up and deal effective damage, I had to abandon my playstyle for the time being. The fight went great (we made it easier with our armor and what not,) so we could just focus on using the weapons. I dealt as much damage as he did using the Greatsword and even contributed to important moments. But I had to learn to really get in there, keep my weapon out, and combo-combo-combo.

Now, the only thing I can think that makes this different than the initial question is that this was not due to a mechanic I was used to and the game didn't have it. Or, it wasn't because I had to find a way around mechanics I didn't quite grasp. Rather, the game itself presented opportunity for growth by forcing me to think differently or die. I find Monster Hunter interesting in that you can still have two distinct playstyles while playing one weapon, and each weapon encourages a certain style of play, forcing you to broaden your horizon.

I still want my health full though, dang it.
 

x65943

i can be your sega dreamcast or sega nightmarecast
Supervisor
GBAtemp Patron
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
6,230
Trophies
3
Location
ΗΠΑ
XP
26,358
Country
United States
The first thing that comes to mind is switching between console and PC or even just switching between two diffrent consoles. If I've been playing a game on one platform for even a small amount of time, it can take me up to a week to adapt to the other platform's control style.
Similar to this. Trying to play smash Bros with a different controller is just awful.

So many years of muscle memory down the drain. The knee jerk responses actually fight against you.
 

BrandonE1993

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
2
Trophies
0
Age
30
XP
126
Country
United States
More recently I'd have to say switching to controller from mouse and keyboard. I also tried playing guitar hero not too long ago.. definitely not the rockstar I used to be:rolleyes:
 
Last edited by BrandonE1993,

RedoLane

Supreme Punmaster
Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
1,487
Trophies
1
Age
29
XP
4,252
Country
Israel
Rather than "Unlearning" a skill, there was a time I had to "unlearn" common gaming logic in order to progress the correct way in a specific game.
That game is Undertale.


the most well-known example is your choice of actions. When I played the game for the first time, I thought that just like in any RPG, killing monsters is the key to victory.
The problem is, when you're killing the major characters, like Toriel, the game gives you reasons to feel bad about it. Because those major characters are people just like us(well, they are monsters though), the game shows the consequences throughout your journey after killing them.


So due to my high sensitivity, after I killed Toriel, I did a reset....only to realize some characters seem to remember what happened.
This is a great example of corrupting your flow of mind, leaving you thinking what would happen if you do that and do this.
I didn't let myself feel too bad about it, and eventually I fought Asriel and got the true pacifist ending.

However, because that twist in the plot, you're getting more curious about other possibilities, and one of the most common examples is.... "what would happen if I killed everyone?"
Entering, The Genocide Route. Where the consequences are even worse when you reach the end. It is famously known for it's Sans boss fight, alongside the theme "Megalovania".
Another example is going the other way around. If you go genocide first, then true pacifist, you still face the consequences from the genocide route.

So my main point is, in order to reach the "good ending" in this game, I had to change my reasoning of logic, and try a better approach.
Now it's not like that "friendship" system is pretty original. after all, Shin Megami Tensei also did that.
But because of how everything is designed, the music and how it changes throughout decisions you make, and the characters' personalities, you feel a greater guilt over your mistakes.
 
Last edited by RedoLane,
  • Like
Reactions: Deleted User

Zense

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
1,977
Trophies
2
XP
4,301
Country
Italy
There's probably lot's of examples, especially going from one game to it's sequel/spinoff.

One example from the top of my mind right now is the card based system in Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories, where you had to start planning and use different tactics for the more difficult boss battles than the usual Kingdom Hearts' "attack, heal and repeat".

A different story is my first playthrough of Super Mario Bros and The Lost Levels on NES. I had to unlearn years of playing modern mario games/platformers. If you don't know those early mario controls feel like you're controlling a train...
 
Last edited by Zense,

brunocar

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Messages
826
Trophies
0
Age
40
XP
2,163
Country
Argentina
im a huge fan of megaman, i grew up with inti creates's megaman zero saga, but i got so used to the smooth dashing and short kill times with melee weapons that encourage rushing your enemy before they can attack, that when i play megaman X it feels too slow until i get really into it
 
  • Like
Reactions: DS1

Vieela

GBATemp's official thinker™
Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
562
Trophies
0
XP
936
Country
Brazil
When there's a game that uses B for jumping and A for something else, and other game that uses B for something else and A for jumping, i really have a hard time getting used to these controls. It's always a back-and-forth thing, i just really usually cannot get used to it easily.
 
D

Deleted User

Guest
When there's a game that uses B for jumping and A for something else, and other game that uses B for something else and A for jumping, i really have a hard time getting used to these controls. It's always a back-and-forth thing, i just really usually cannot get used to it easily.
A is for confirmation/primary action (attack etc). B is for cancellation/secondary action (jumping etc). X (or start in older consoles) is for menu.
 
Last edited by ,
D

Deleted User

Guest
had to stop the big red button after playing a lot of pokemon. this costed me twice my files (just press the enter until all dialogs go away) and big chunk of story in a zelda game.
you cant sanely play pokemon without mashing the A button all the time when somebody speaks. its soooo slooow... even battles are slow- have to press A to use the best attack over and over again...
abother thing is getting used to notmal speed vs getting used to 10x on an emulator. I need to be relaxed to even try to play on console w/o fast forward. the whole feeling is different...
fun story- I had an old laptop, something from 2006 and tried to play meatboy. I was bad at first, becausr you have 0.5 seconds of lag between button press and response- Im not even kidding!- but I mastered it. I had to thinm 0.5 seconds ahead- pushing a button before thr bad thing even came close! later I had to unlearn that when I played on a normal pc...

I never had the problem with controls- I always set the settings as I like em, or just dont play. I play some games on both pc and a controller-based console and never thought about the possibity of having problems witj the controlls...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

When there's a game that uses B for jumping and A for something else, and other game that uses B for something else and A for jumping, i really have a hard time getting used to these controls. It's always a back-and-forth thing, i just really usually cannot get used to it easily.
all games should use A for jump. fuck all the other games.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

ah and wtf why does pressing the right button on nintendo means ok, but on xbox it means cancel? had problems with that too
 
  • Like
Reactions: elBenyo and Zense

elBenyo

Wad of meat.
Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
487
Trophies
0
Age
33
XP
885
Country
United States
Damn Retropie wants you to use Nintendo's placement of "B" and "A" buttons to go back and forward, unfortunate if you use a 360 controller because Microsoft uses them backwards by comparison.
 

Zense

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
1,977
Trophies
2
XP
4,301
Country
Italy
all games should use A for jump. fuck all the other games.

ah and wtf why does pressing the right button on nintendo means ok, but on xbox it means cancel? had problems with that too
In a distant and alternative future where humans have forgotten all about religion, they will be fighting over whether A or B should be cancel or confirm...
 

JiveTheTurkey

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Messages
323
Trophies
0
Age
27
XP
477
Country
United States
I can't left click now. My mouse started double clicking after long play of the Steam Alien Invaders community game, I guess mashing your mouse button takes a toll. I switched the primary click after it drove me crazy and now I can't go back to it.
(I feel like I misunderstood the topic..)
 

Taleweaver

Storywriter
Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
8,689
Trophies
2
Age
43
Location
Belgium
XP
8,085
Country
Belgium
I'm going with "jump controls". I play some retro games lately (mario land! mario land 2! :D ), and man...back then, when you jumped in a platformer, it allowed for far less control and precision than is currently the standard. :P

While somewhat unrelated, I...can't make the connection between the thread title and the opening post (sorry, @FAST6191 :( ). I had to resort to the first reactions to know just what the discussion was really about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zense

sarkwalvein

There's hope for a Xenosaga port.
Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
8,506
Trophies
2
Age
41
Location
Niedersachsen
XP
11,221
Country
Germany
all games should use A for jump. fuck all the other games.
tfw you go from a game that uses A for jump on the XBONE to one that uses A on the Switch and you want to kill yourself.
Actually, whenever you've been playing either XBONE or Switch and go to the other one, and start cancelling everything instead of accepting, even struggling to make your way around the Home screen and launch a game. (though, already pointed out before)
 
D

Deleted User

Guest
tfw you go from a game that uses A for jump on the XBONE to one that uses A on the Switch and you want to kill yourself.
Actually, whenever you've been playing either XBONE or Switch and go to the other one, and start cancelling everything instead of accepting, even struggling to make your way around the Home screen and launch a game. (though, already pointed out before)
yep I agree.. the idea of the same button (the right one) having different actions and names on different consoles is annoying

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

In a distant and alternative future where humans have forgotten all about religion, they will be fighting over whether A or B should be cancel or confirm...
whatever. just choose one and use it. this thing should have beem standard by now, after 50 years of gaming...
 

gamesquest1

Nabnut
Former Staff
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
15,153
Trophies
2
XP
12,247
reading through the manual on the way home......cheap b@$%@£ds

granted I didn't ever really learn much from it, and the internet means you can look up whatever you want....but still
 
Last edited by gamesquest1,
  • Like
Reactions: cearp

Xzi

Time to fly, 621
Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
17,736
Trophies
3
Location
The Lands Between
Website
gbatemp.net
XP
8,529
Country
United States
I'd probably suck at RTS games now despite hundreds of hours in Warcraft 3, as well as earlier Warcraft, Starcraft and Command and Conquer games. There just hasn't been anything new in that category to grab my attention for some time. Of course, I've gained new skills since then from Soulslikes and roguelikes, but that's not what this discussion is about.
 

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    realtimesave @ realtimesave: got a mig switch here, freshly smuggled in from China