Hacking Discussion [PSA] SX OS Banwave is here!!!

V-Temp

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No, I'm not making suggestions on what they should have done. I'm saying the fact that they didn't build it that way likely means that they have no way of validating game data at all right now, nor are they looking for it.

I wouldn't assume any of this. You could, briefly, go online without even having a valid cert (SX1.0 without a working cert). Then it suddenly stopped working and required an update or a cart.

Something changed. The carts absolutely are identified uniquely because they are linked to specific gold coins and predefined. Either they're leaving up an easy to watch net or they haven't created an automated rejection process after getting a cert.

If they can ban a cart cert (which they have for Scires) they know what the cert is from.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

It's possible the only thing it checks at the moment is dupes, and for a while wasn't even checking validity until it was activated. This would explain current beahvior.

But the moment they parse old data for authentication grants between games and see a repeating code over multiple games, that'd be an obvious and trivial ban.
 

aekotra

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I wouldn't assume any of this. You could, briefly, go online without even having a valid cert (SX1.0 without a working cert). Then it suddenly stopped working and required an update or a cart.

This was because SX1.0 didn't emulate the cert heartbeat check. This was an auth failure by eventual timeout, not "invalid cert".

Something changed. The carts absolutely are identified uniquely because they are linked to specific gold coins and predefined. Either they're leaving up an easy to watch net or they haven't created an automated rejection process after getting a cert.

If they can ban a cart cert (which they have for Scires) they know what the cert is from.

Carts are identified uniquely because they are immutable: I can't replace its hardcoded cert, so the game data is guaranteed by this fact. This is not true for backups.
 

V-Temp

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This was because SX1.0 didn't emulate the cert heartbeat check. This was an auth failure by eventual timeout, not "invalid cert".

Carts are identified uniquely because they are immutable: I can't replace its hardcoded cert, so the game data is guaranteed by this fact. This is not true for backups.

My point was that no cert still passed auth briefly, regardless of what reason there was for it eventually failing.

Redeeming gold coins based on data passed rather than the cert makes little sense, regardless of the nature of a cart. The cart passes ID and the game passes it's own TitleID, and this gives auth if both are valid. Scires' never said this would fail auth if they mismatched, as that would have been an assumption. His warning was about it leading to a ban, similarly this was a warning about LayeredFS sending the wrong cert for a game. It wasn't about failing auth, it was about being obvious to cop a ban.

LayeredFS was going online with the wrong cert before Scires wrote his post. So he knew that the wrong cert to game could get past auth.

And again, reusing a cert is obvious all the same on their end. It would be the same a duplicate. They'd need only parse their access logs to find such an obvious abuse.
 
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aekotra

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My point was that no cert still passed auth briefly, regardless of what reason there was for it eventually failing.

Not necessarily, it depends on how how the system is designed. For example, the initial cert check may be the first heartbeat, and so would naturally have timeout leniency. In the meantime, Nintendo has authenticated your Nintendo account and begun the online session. The heartbeat times out and only then is the connection severed.

But we don't need to know the details. AFAIA you can't get online with an invalid cert in SX1.1. You get rejected immediately. That's the whole point of the auth system.


Redeeming gold coins based on data passed rather than the cert makes little sense, regardless of the nature of a cart.

I don't suggest things are done that way, so I don't know what your point is.

Scires' never said this would fail auth if they mismatched, as that would have been an assumption.

I never suggested Scires said that either. He said:
In the gamecard case, Nintendo can detect whether or not the user connecting has data from a Nintendo-authorized gamecard for the correct title.

I'm saying that's unlikely that they ever intended on checking this and explained my rationale. Elaborated below, there is no point in "detecting and banning" if they could have just designed the auth system to not allow it at all.

LayeredFS was going online with the wrong cert before Scires wrote his post. So he knew that the wrong cert to game could get past auth.

Are you saying people have been injecting valid certs from other games using LayeredFS? I've seen no evidence of that. The link in my original comment is the first instance of that happening as far as I'm aware.


And again, reusing a cert is obvious all the same on their end. It would be the same a duplicate. They'd need only parse their access logs to find such an obvious abuse.

You can only play one game at a time, so the cert only appears on the network once at a time regardless of how many of your backups use an identical cert. There is no duplicate. What exactly do you expect to show up in their logs?


My point in all my previous posts stands: if "reusing" a cert is so obvious, they would have built protection into the auth to begin with.

Let me give you a concrete example:

What they're doing:
Nintendo: "send the game's cert"
Switch: "here is the cert"
N: "OK we signed this cert, access granted"

What they COULD be doing:
Nintendo: "send the game's cert"
Switch: "here is the cert"
Nintendo: "hash the loaded game and send it"
S: "here is the hash"
N: "We signed this cert, but the hash does not match the one present in the cert"
N: "game over"

If it's so obvious, why didn't they DESIGN certs to validate the game data and do the SIMPLE check above? Because they didn't forsee a situation where a cert would exist in any game other than the one it was made with. In other words, they weren't looking for it, and unless they read this post they are probably still not. Certainly, they will in the future but the damage is already done: something they could have prevented completely they now have to try to "detect".
 
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einfachGaer

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Not necessarily, it depends on how how the system is designed. For example, the initial cert check may be the first heartbeat, and so would naturally have timeout leniency. In the meantime, Nintendo has authenticated your Nintendo account and begun the online session. The heartbeat times out and only then is the connection severed.

But we don't need to know the details. AFAIA you can't get online with an invalid cert in SX1.1. You get rejected immediately. That's the whole point of the auth system.




I don't suggest things are done that way, so I don't know what your point is.



I never suggested Scires said that either. He said:
In the gamecard case, Nintendo can detect whether or not the user connecting has data from a Nintendo-authorized gamecard for the correct title.

I'm saying that's unlikely that they ever intended on checking this and explained my rationale. Elaborated below, there is no point in "detecting and banning" if they could have just designed the auth system to not allow it at all.



Are you saying people have been injecting valid certs from other games using LayeredFS? I've seen no evidence of that. The link in my original comment is the first instance of that happening as far as I'm aware.




You can only play one game at a time, so the cert only appears on the network once at a time regardless of how many of your backups use an identical cert. There is no duplicate. What exactly do you expect to show up in their logs?


My point in all my previous posts stands: if "reusing" a cert is so obvious, they would have built protection into the auth to begin with.

Let me give you a concrete example:

What they're doing:
Nintendo: "send the game's cert"
Switch: "here is the cert"
N: "OK we signed this cert, access granted"

What they COULD be doing:
Nintendo: "send the game's cert"
Switch: "here is the cert"
Nintendo: "hash the loaded game and send it"
S: "here is the hash"
N: "We signed this cert, but the hash does not match the one present in the cert"
N: "game over"

If it's so obvious, why didn't they DESIGN certs to validate the game data and do the SIMPLE check above? Because they didn't forsee a situation where a cert would exist in any game other than the one it was made with. In other words, they weren't looking for it, and unless they read this post they are probably still not. Certainly, they will in the future but the damage is already done: something they could have prevented completely they now have to try to "detect".
What if there is one guy working for N, who is reading along and is able to give information to the specific team inside N to actually implement such a cert check?
We fuk'd!
 

andre1891

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Not necessarily, it depends on how how the system is designed. For example, the initial cert check may be the first heartbeat, and so would naturally have timeout leniency. In the meantime, Nintendo has authenticated your Nintendo account and begun the online session. The heartbeat times out and only then is the connection severed.

But we don't need to know the details. AFAIA you can't get online with an invalid cert in SX1.1. You get rejected immediately. That's the whole point of the auth system.




I don't suggest things are done that way, so I don't know what your point is.



I never suggested Scires said that either. He said:
In the gamecard case, Nintendo can detect whether or not the user connecting has data from a Nintendo-authorized gamecard for the correct title.

I'm saying that's unlikely that they ever intended on checking this and explained my rationale. Elaborated below, there is no point in "detecting and banning" if they could have just designed the auth system to not allow it at all.



Are you saying people have been injecting valid certs from other games using LayeredFS? I've seen no evidence of that. The link in my original comment is the first instance of that happening as far as I'm aware.




You can only play one game at a time, so the cert only appears on the network once at a time regardless of how many of your backups use an identical cert. There is no duplicate. What exactly do you expect to show up in their logs?


My point in all my previous posts stands: if "reusing" a cert is so obvious, they would have built protection into the auth to begin with.

Let me give you a concrete example:

What they're doing:
Nintendo: "send the game's cert"
Switch: "here is the cert"
N: "OK we signed this cert, access granted"

What they COULD be doing:
Nintendo: "send the game's cert"
Switch: "here is the cert"
Nintendo: "hash the loaded game and send it"
S: "here is the hash"
N: "We signed this cert, but the hash does not match the one present in the cert"
N: "game over"

If it's so obvious, why didn't they DESIGN certs to validate the game data and do the SIMPLE check above? Because they didn't forsee a situation where a cert would exist in any game other than the one it was made with. In other words, they weren't looking for it, and unless they read this post they are probably still not. Certainly, they will in the future but the damage is already done: something they could have prevented completely they now have to try to "detect".
As im understanding you Right. You can usw the same legit Header multiple Times. Injected it into different Backups and still play Online with it on OFW? (But you cant play the Games with the Same Cert at the same Time)
And Nintendo wont Detect that?
 
Last edited by andre1891,

nikeymikey

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@Draxzelex Here’s my answers.
  • Banned: N
  • If banned, provide proof (video preferred)
  • Used any CDN Downloader: N
  • Unchecked "Send Errors" in Menu: Y
  • Cleared Error Logs prior to going Online with nx-dreport: Y
  • SX OS used offline: Y
  • SX OS used online: N
  • Played with SX Backups online: N
  • Layered FS Used offline: N
  • Layered FS Used online: N
  • Played with Layered FS Injects online: N
  • Homebrew Offline: Y
  • Connect internet with homebrew: N
  • Connect to eShop during CFW: N
  • Played with Layered FS Injects with OwnCert.: N
  • Does the Eshop work: Y
  • Backups updated: Y OFW
  • WiFi settings deleted: N
  • Airplane mode: Y
  • AutoRCM: N
  • SX OS Version used when Online: 1.1 never online
  • Auto Game Update/Downloads deactivated: N
Will update if a ban occurs.
 
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Hernie

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I haven't seen anyone post about this, but does anyone know if the "recently played" info gets sent to Ninty? If you look under your profile, the games show up there. Not sure if the game cart id's are info that's stored there as well or if there's anyway to clear that.
 

Viri

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Ping Long says no refunds, but he beat his child laborers for allowing this to happen. Also threaten to lower their pay checks from 5 cents a day to 4 cents a day.
 

Altina

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I haven't seen anyone post about this, but does anyone know if the "recently played" info gets sent to Ninty? If you look under your profile, the games show up there. Not sure if the game cart id's are info that's stored there as well or if there's anyway to clear that.

Yup, play activity info is sent to Nintendo’s server, so your friends can see it too when they check your profile.
 

Hernie

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Yup, play activity info is sent to Nintendo’s server, so your friends can see it too when they check your profile.
I'm surprised that no one has come up with a way to clear that, or even make it not save those at all.
 
D

DeletedMember411838

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I haven't seen anyone post about this, but does anyone know if the "recently played" info gets sent to Ninty? If you look under your profile, the games show up there. Not sure if the game cart id's are info that's stored there as well or if there's anyway to clear that.

I told people this a long long time ago.

Not only that, but check your email, when you first launch game it sends you an email telling you "how do you like XXX games, and come claim your coins"

I have gotten emails like that for every game that I bought new, used games I haven't. So they are doing a coin validity check when you first launch the game.

GG bans going to be everywhere.

They emails I got all went to pormotions folder btw in Gmail, which makes them easy to miss. My wife was the first to launch another of our games, and hers went to her spam folder so check their too.

Of course that may be because we never turned send data to Nintendo off, guess I will try that for the next new game.

Also it takes awhile after you buy the game, a week or 2 later you get the email.
 
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D

DeletedMember411838

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Thats not good. Piracy and ban people okay I get it. But only for save editing and backupping... snap thats not fair...

Umm nope, They 100% need to ban all save editors.

People like the one you quoted, I feel sorry for, but that is the only way to stop the scumbags that cheat on online multiplayer games, I have seen plenty of save editing bullshit on Splatoon thanks. I know everyone doesnt do that, but whats that saying about 1 bad apple?
 
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