Hacking [PSA] Strong anti-piracy measures implemented by Nintendo for online.

Nezztor

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Meh, play a hacked console online, risk the banhammer.

Still hacking mine, I'll eat a shoe before I pay for p2p online.

When you start seeing the things that nintendo is going to give to the memebrs probably you will end getting the membership (since is online thing..no piracy)xD I will wait for your photo while you eat that shoe
 

Deathscreton

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Pretty simple. It's a chain of trust. First the console and account are validated. Then it validates if you own the game. The cert/ticket it uses is bound to the game and for eShop games to your account aswell. You can't use any valid cert/ticket since it must be from the exact game you want to play and you actually need to have it purchased in case of eShop games. Everything else is a sure fire way to get banned.
You're ignoring what I mentioned earlier. What if I send a cert for a game I DO own, rather than for the game I'm trying to play that I DON'T own. What's the validation for that?
 

ghjfdtg

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You're ignoring what I mentioned earlier. What if I send a cert for a game I DO own, rather than for the game I'm trying to play that I DON'T own. What's the validation for that?
You can't use any random cert. It is bound to that title. If you own that exact game legitimately everything is fine.
 
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Peabutt

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No, I think it's more along the lines that they aren't fully certain and don't want to spread false information around, or us end users are just missing something in the concept that prevents this from happening.

I'm fairly certain someone else has asked these questions and are for sure why this wouldn't work. I just wanna be in the know. lmao

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



See, that's waht confuses me. From what I'm reading here, the server doesn't give two shits about WHAT cert it's receiving, so long as the cert it obtains from the Switch is a valid cert for the game it claims to be playing.

For example: If I borrowed Overcooked without owning it, requested to go online and instead, sent the Fortnite cert that is clearly obtained by my Switch from the eShop, how will the server know that I'm actually NOT playing Fortnite? The cert it received is valid, matches everything my Switch claims to be, the only outstanding issue is the traffic the device sends because the traffic is obviously not Fortnite. So unless they're reading all the traffic my Switch sends to the Fortnite servers (which aren't owned by Ninty), they can't detect what I'm playing.

Now I could see this being different with first party games. I imagine what may be happening is that when I send in a request for a token for say the new Smashbros (that I bought digitally, legally), but want to play Super Mario Party instead, it confirms my cert, but instead of sending me to the SMP servers/P2P matchmaking server, it sends me to the Smashbros servers, notices the different in data/traffic being received and bans my console for trying to be slick.

This is all hearsay though. I'd like to hear it from @SciresM.

EDIT: You know, now that I thinka bout it, he did mention that there was a ton of data whose purposes were unkown. It coudl be that the Switch may be sending up logs of the programs it runs to coincide with the token request to help validate the request itself. Using the Fortnite example from earlier. I tell Ninty that I want to play Fortnite (when in reality I'm wanting to play Overcooked), so I send the request, along with logs, game data, etc to prove I'm actually playing Fortnite, but what they get instead is data relating to Overcooked. They compare to the request, notice it's wrong, and ban me to hell and back.

According to him this will get you banned. For one the cert won't match to the game properly because they are unique to each game and copy of said game and the games send background data to the servers while you are playing. He has confirmed this with a bunch of us on the reswitched discord.
 

pofer

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I haven't quite got the idea, so we are safe as long as we don't run pirated games online? , what I mean is, I have my console on 4.1, I wanted to install emunand on it and be able to play some of my legit games online again, should we be fine as long as we don't connect to the internet while using the backups?(simply activating airplane mode while undocked should do the trick I guess)
 

Deathscreton

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According to him this will get you banned. For one the cert won't match to the game properly because they are unique to each game and copy of said game and the games send background data to the servers while you are playing. He has confirmed this with a bunch of us on the reswitched discord.
So I think you may have misunderstood me, but answered my question correctly anyways. I know all games and their subsequent copies have unique certs. What I was proposing was more akin to disguising games, rather than spoofing them. But if the games traffic or data is being sent to the server, then that would validate. Of course, this was all in my post if you had taken the time to read it. Lol
 

pLaYeR^^

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I haven't quite got the idea, so we are safe as long as we don't run pirated games online? , what I mean is, I have my console on 4.1, I wanted to install emunand on it and be able to play some of my legit games online again, should we be fine as long as we don't connect to the internet while using the backups?(simply activating airplane mode while undocked should do the trick I guess)
As long as you don't play backups online, you should be safe. But we can't say this for sure right now.
 
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Deathscreton

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You can't use any random cert. It is bound to that title. If you own that exact game legitimately everything is fine.
Again, you're missing my point. What about what he posted stops us from using a valid, owned cert over a game we don't own? Why can't we have a sysmodule or some type of plugin that sends a valid cert in place of a game that is owned, so the server sees nothing but valid information? The switch tells the server the games it's playing, provides the certs and all required information, in return expecting a token needed to access whatever other servers it required.
 

PolloDiablo

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I can see lots of bans happening in the future when people start buying used games that have been ripped and uploaded with their certificates.
 

pofer

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We can't say this for sure right now.

That makes me wonder is staying at 4.1 is not as worth it now, Having a fully updated sysnand where I can play all my legit games while keeping a emunand which nevers connects to the internet kinda sounds more appealing now, (I don't mind the jig, so it shouldn't be a problem)
 

Peabutt

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So I think you may have misunderstood me, but answered my question correctly anyways. I know all games and their subsequent copies have unique certs. What I was proposing was more akin to disguising games, rather than spoofing them. But if the games traffic or data is being sent to the server, then that would validate. Of course, this was all in my post if you had taken the time to read it. Lol

No I did understand what you meant, you can't disguise them like that. They have really taken the time to get this right.
 

pLaYeR^^

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That makes me wonder is staying at 4.1 is not as worth it now, Having a fully updated sysnand where I can play all my legit games while keeping a emunand which nevers connects to the internet kinda sounds more appealing now, (I don't mind the jig, so it shouldn't be a problem)
It's you decision if you update your console or not. If you don't care about using a jig and don't miss the possibility of warmboot, I don't see a reason to not update.
 

Deathscreton

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No I did understand what you meant, you can't disguise them like that. They have really taken the time to get this right.
Okay, WHY can't you disguise them like that? He went into pretty big detail about how the process works. Nothing there says you can't disguise them.
 

Armadillo

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When you start seeing the things that nintendo is going to give to the memebrs probably you will end getting the membership (since is online thing..no piracy)xD I will wait for your photo while you eat that shoe

You will be waiting a long time.

People say the same about ps+ "oh but you get X things for free".

Still haven't got +, had my ps4 for years. Never had live on my xbox or 360.

Not going to pay you to play p2p or on servers hosted by someone else. You can sprinkle shit with all the goodies you want, it's still shit under it.

You want me to pay for online, then put up the dedicated servers. Nintendo want my money, then Nintendo can put the servers up. p2p or provided by someone else, I aint paying you, that's a joke.
 
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pofer

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It's you decision if you update your console or not. If you don't care about using a jig and don't miss the possibility of warmboot, I don't see a reason to not update.
Yeah, I am not saying I will update inmediatly. as I have already waited 4 months on 4.1 and I truly don't want that to go to waste lol
 

morrison22

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I will be using my 2nd switch for homebrew, emulators and backups. No NNID will be signed into it. I went online with it once to strictly update the firmware from 4.1.0 to 5.1.0 so I could get the exFAT update. Then I disabled Auto Updating, Connect on Demand, and put it in airplane mode. I am hoping to be able to update the games by going online just to update then going back to airplane mode, (which from what I hear can be done without being signed in with a NNID), without it constituting a ban. Else, wait for scene releases of updates to games.
 
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Peabutt

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Okay, WHY can't you disguise them like that? He went into pretty big detail about how the process works. Nothing there says you can't disguise them.

Because the cert will mismatch, even if it is a valid one. The only way I could see that working is if it was a valid cert for the same game but then again if two people with the same cert go online you are screwed.
 

Deathscreton

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Because the cert will mismatch, even if it is a valid one. The only way I could see that working is if it was a valid cert for the same game but then again if two people with the same cert go online you are screwed.
Yeah, see, you're not understanding me. I never said anything about two people going online. I'm talking about me, myself and I, with only MY Switch and MY legally owned Fortnite game. That being said:

What do you mean it'll "mismatch"? How would the server even know? The only thing it cares about is a VALID CERT. If I give a cert for Fornite, the game I LEGALLY own from the eShop, all the server sees is a VALID FORTNITE CERT. It knows NOTHING about the game underneath.

See where I'm coming from?
 

Classicgamer

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I will be using my 2nd switch for homebrew, emulators and backups. No NNID will be signed into it. I went online with it once to strictly update the firmware from 4.1.0 to 5.1.0 so I could get the exFAT update. Then I disabled Auto Updating, Connect on Demand, and put it in airplane mode. I am hoping to be able to update the games by going online just to update then going back to airplane mode, (which from what I hear can be done without being signed in with a NNID), without it constituting a ban. Else, wait for scene releases of updates to games.

I have the same plan but my second switch is still on 3.0.0 without the exfat update. My primary switch is legit with 84 games now
^_^

I don’t know why I’m keeping it on 3.0.0 because if I have to I have no problem getting jiggy with it and it won’t be used for piracy (I went legit this generation onward).

The sciresm docs are always a good read. I like what Nintendo has done security-wise and it seems everyone doing the layeredfs piracy method will get banned when the hammer drops based on his write up?
 
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