Hacking About emunand in SX OS

kamesenin888 · May 22, 2018

AndA

notimp said:
Aha.

I'm just mirroring the sentiment that I got in the TX is selling a pirated OS thread (which they are not, because they apparently arent selling the OS) - from people close to the development of the TX solution, which was "people will always get banned" *shrug*.

To make this absolutely clear.

Every step TX can "save". Every 32GB they dont have to make their customers install on their SD card, will get them more sells. They'll take that over a better, but more complex solution every day.

Their entire business model is based around "people are dumb" and, "cant handle delayed gratification". (When you are literally up against a better open source solution, that will chase you maybe from day one - it takes a special kind of person, to go with a brand, that then DRMs the hacking stuff that a person puts on their console...).

If we are going by the Forrest Gump proverb of "stupid is as stupid does", and actually analyze approaches...
- One company "innovated by bricking your Switches" and sells you detectable sysnand modifications on top of it - and will have you store pirated gamestates, on your main partition.

- The people defending that approach say "that you don't have to go online - if you don't want to get banned from going online".

- And then TX says - go online to "update to most recent firmware.." (because we don't provide you with any.)

I mean... Do I have to explain my thinking here?

And the open source will have an unreachable stealth, with now the same autorcm but open source so its good now, dude are you a beta tester for tx? Or you are just guessing?

alexj9626 · May 22, 2018

Draxzelex said:
A little backstory because its interesting. As a Gateway user, I have been waiting since February of last year for their launcher.dat to support using EmuNAND on the latest firmware so I can go online. But as of today, they still haven't released it and may never will. So, people figured out what exactly is needed to be updated to play online without breaking EmuNAND compatibility. The system updates always contain multiple files such as ones that disable CFWs like Gateway, improve the stability of the device, or implement updates in certain modules that are detected to make sure you can go online. That last bit came in the form of an update for something involving the friends feature (can't remember the exact name of the title), but this was all was needed to be added to my 3DS to go online. Essentially, I am running a Frankenfirmware on my 3DS to play online while using the Gateway.

Moral of the story is we need a tool that can download the individual update files for each system update of the Switch. And so far, I have not seen a tool that does that. But I suppose if we figure out which files are checked for being able to go online, installing the appropriate titles will let us go online without actually updating. Frankenswitches for everybody.

Well thanks for the backstory but all i can think is, why are you using Gateway? Im not an expert but isnt it kinda obsolete?

So what i understand is that with newer updates stuff like EmuNAND/CFW could be compromised? So EmuNAND needs to be updated every new firmware to go online?

Bedel · May 22, 2018

Quantumcat said:
Are you basically saying you'll play online on sysNAND with game cartridges you bought, and only play pirated games offline on emuNAND? That would work, but then you need to buy all the games you want to play online.

If you play a pirated game online, both sysNAND and emuNAND might be banned.

Yeah, this is it. Glad you got it. I've always trusted you. Kk now no jk. If people wanna play pirated software without risk, this may be a good solution. It has cons, but it is also very simple as I see it. In other hand, they could always pay every game they want. More simple, but we know how this guys are

Finalxfantasy · May 22, 2018

Thetoto said:
What is emunand exactly ?

EmuNAND or (emulated NAND) is essentially a duplicate of the sysNAND's contents, which can be stored on the SD card.
By creating an emuNAND partition it's almost like running to 2 different consoles within the same device. You can have one NAND to run OFW and the other NAND to run CFW. It can also be used as a fallback in case sysNAND is bricked.

Draxzelex · May 22, 2018

alexj9626 said:
Well thanks for the backstory but all i can think is, why are you using Gateway? Im not an expert but isnt it kinda obsolete?

So what i understand is that with newer updates stuff like EmuNAND/CFW could be compromised? So EmuNAND needs to be updated every new firmware to go online?

Personal preference really at this point. Also, the scene hasn't been able to reproduce playing 3DS games like a cartridge. CIAs are great and all, but I love the convenience of drag-and-drop playing. And technically speaking, its the CFW that needs updating from our end because Nintendo will implement changes to their latest firmware that will be introduced into the system once we update our EmuNAND. They may implement some code that prevents the CFW from loading at all, regardless if its EmuNAND or not. This is why EmuNAND is useful because in the event you accidentally updated your EmuNAND before the devs could update their CFW to work with the latest firmware Nintendo released, you can restore an older version of EmuNAND that was supported. With SysNAND, it would be a little tricker, but not impossible once we get the appropriate tools.

digipimp75 · May 22, 2018

Draxzelex said:
Personal preference really at this point. Also, the scene hasn't been able to reproduce playing 3DS games like a cartridge. CIAs are great and all, but I love the convenience of drag-and-drop playing. And technically speaking, its the CFW that needs updating from our end because Nintendo will implement changes to their latest firmware that will be introduced into the system once we update our EmuNAND. They may implement some code that prevents the CFW from loading at all, regardless if its EmuNAND or not. This is why EmuNAND is useful because in the event you accidentally updated your EmuNAND before the devs could update their CFW to work with the latest firmware Nintendo released, you can restore an older version of EmuNAND that was supported. With SysNAND, it would be a little tricker, but not impossible once we get the appropriate tools.

I'm still using Gateway too lol. Well more specifically, I'm using Luma+A9lh+Gateway w/emunand. It works great, and the most convenient feature is the .3ds file loading from the micro sd card on the Gateway.

Draxzelex · May 22, 2018

digipimp75 said:
I'm still using Gateway too lol. Well more specifically, I'm using Luma+A9lh+Gateway w/emunand. It works great, and the most convenient feature is the .3ds file loading from the micro sd card on the Gateway.

Exactly, if the community can figure out a way to do that without using my $80 cartridge, I'll swear off Gateway for life

A Generic User · May 22, 2018

Draxzelex said:
Exactly, if the community can figure out a way to do that without using my $80 cartridge, I'll swear off Gateway for life

You know damn well that ain't happening lmao

guily6669 · May 23, 2018

PonyStation4 said:
The PSVita kept an offline log of what you do on the system and sent information out even on airplane mode. I have yet to see a ban from Sony, but let's not act like Nintendo wouldn't do something so simple. Even if Nintendo doesn't abuse airplane mode, they can do it the next time you connect to the internet.

Even Android phones send out information to Google and get your location when you have Wifi+LTE+GPS+Location off.

Phones mostly use the GSM too for that so yeah... they can use GSM+Wifi+GPS+ whatever for any kind of tracking...

But I don't think the airplane mode should ever turn wifi ON as it would be just a waste of battery and its supposed to cut all transmissions as its "AIRPLANE mode", if its still transmitting, then something is quite wrong there.

Draxzelex said:
Exactly, if the community can figure out a way to do that without using my $80 cartridge, I'll swear off Gateway for life

Same here... And hell even with no money I wouldnt mind cutting an arm and a leg and even pay 100€ for a god damn hacking cartridge for Switch that would also bring M-SD adapter in it for games and leave the original Switch M-SD port for a emunand-only M-SD without ever needing to remove it ever and just change the M-SD's in the cartdrige with different games to load, while keeping all saves\data all the time in the main console M-SD.

And also if you want to use GATEWAY emunand, someone maked hacked files which I think support latest 3DS update to play online and then you just have to install some .cia to access the eshop or it will still ask for a update when opening the nintendo eshop...

Draxzelex · May 23, 2018

A Generic User said:
You know damn well that ain't happening lmao

We never thought we would get the holy grail of 3DS hacking in the form a softmodded coldboot and now have B9S. So yes, anything is possible and never say never.

PonyStation4 · May 23, 2018

guily6669 said:
Phones mostly use the GSM too for that so yeah... they can use GSM+Wifi+GPS+ whatever for any kind of tracking...

But I don't think the airplane mode should ever turn wifi ON as it would be just a waste of battery and its supposed to cut all transmissions as its "AIRPLANE mode", if its still transmitting, then something is quite wrong there.

Sending a few kb log file once a day isn't going to have any impact on battery.

kamesenin888 · May 24, 2018

Draxzelex said:
We never thought we would get the holy grail of 3DS hacking in the form a softmodded coldboot and now have B9S. So yes, anything is possible and never say never.

and still we dont have a way of running 3ds files without a gateway

TheSynthax · May 24, 2018

guitarheroknight said:
Emunand is pointless if you have bootrom access.

No. It's extremely useful for avoiding bans.

guitarheroknight · May 24, 2018

TheSynthax said:
No. It's extremely useful for avoiding bans.

Actually, it's extremely not useful for avoiding bans since it's not the OS (sysnand/emunand) that's getting banned but, rather a small file that's present on both of your NAND's!

naitsa · May 25, 2018

I understand what @TheSynthax means. I tried to explain that to a lot of users recently: Of course a ban hits the whole system, no matter if you use Emunand or Sysnand. The point here is that the chance of getting detected by nintendo gets WAY lower when you have Emunand. Cause you could stay offline with Emunand the whole time, doing all your modding just there. With your untouched Sysnand you can go online without any problems then, playing original games while you play all your Backups just at Emunand where you stay offline all the time. So you get no traces of modification at the nand you go online with, no games history etc. Nothing. Of course that isnt 100% safe, cause nothing is, but it is hugely more safe then everything you do without emunand. Thats a simple fact.
Don`t get me wrong im not one of this TX haters. I appreciate their work. So am i doing with the work on Atmospher. In Fact i already preordered TX, but im wondering if i should cancel my preorder because they dont use Emunand. Dont know yet. But if you at least want to try avoiding a ban Emunand is absolutely gold.

Draxzelex · May 25, 2018

Historically, EmuNAND has always been implemented to preserve whatever exploit we had for a specific firmware on SysNAND but allow us to reap the benefits of being online and using the latest firmware. The Switch scene is a little different. Because the exploit we have works on all firmwares, there's no point in keeping SysNAND low unless you don't like the nature of the unpatchable exploit. There are softmods that are unreleased which can work all the way up to 4.1 so it might be useful for those users who prefer to use those warmboots over the tethered coldboot. EmuNAND is almost like buying a second Switch except for the part that a ban on either the NAND applies to both.

guitarheroknight · May 25, 2018

naitsa said:
I understand what @TheSynthax means. I tried to explain that to a lot of users recently: Of course a ban hits the whole system, no matter if you use Emunand or Sysnand. The point here is that the chance of getting detected by nintendo gets WAY lower when you have Emunand. Cause you could stay offline with Emunand the whole time, doing all your modding just there. With your untouched Sysnand you can go online without any problems then, playing original games while you play all your Backups just at Emunand where you stay offline all the time. So you get no traces of modification at the nand you go online with, no games history etc. Nothing. Of course that isnt 100% safe, cause nothing is, but it is hugely more safe then everything you do without emunand. Thats a simple fact.
Don`t get me wrong im not one of this TX haters. I appreciate their work. So am i doing with the work on Atmospher. In Fact i already preordered TX, but im wondering if i should cancel my preorder because they dont use Emunand. Dont know yet. But if you at least want to try avoiding a ban Emunand is absolutely gold.

Actually this is a really good point! I wonder if they'll be able to detect the emunand partition... You could also unlink emunand and sysnand by making an emunand, removing the SD card and formatting the Switch, which would in terms give you two "separate" Switch consoles.

Draxzelex · May 25, 2018

guitarheroknight said:
Actually this is a really good point! I wonder if they'll be able to detect the emunand partition... You could also unlink emunand and sysnand by making an emunand, removing the SD card and formatting the Switch, which would in terms give you two "separate" Switch consoles.

I think EmuNAND and SysNAND are linked due to the unique console certificate they are given by Nintendo. Kinda like birth certificates for us. No matter how we change how we look or our names, the birth certificate will remain the same. Also since EmuNAND is being run off the SD card, I don't think they would start checking the SD card for malicious files due to privacy reasons. But maybe they could see the fact that we're using the Switch without touching the files on the SysNAND?

Thetoto · May 25, 2018

Draxzelex said:
I think EmuNAND and SysNAND are linked due to the unique console certificate they are given by Nintendo. Kinda like birth certificates for us. No matter how we change how we look or our names, the birth certificate will remain the same. Also since EmuNAND is being run off the SD card, I don't think they would start checking the SD card for malicious files due to privacy reasons. But maybe they could see the fact that we're using the Switch without touching the files on the SysNAND?

Nope because you're offline in EmuNAND. Nintendo will know nothing of your activities. The switch on EmuNAND will never send his certificate.

And you can't unplug your sdcard.

Draxzelex · May 25, 2018

Thetoto said:
Nope because you're offline in EmuNAND. Nintendo will know nothing of your activities. The switch on EmuNAND will never send his certificate.

And you can't unplug your sdcard.

This is assuming you stay offline with EmuNAND. This also assumes you will be 100% hack free on your SysNAND. I will of course be using hacks on EmuNAND knowing full well the risks of being banned. If you don't want to take that risk, that's your decision and your decision alone.

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