Hacking Staying on low firmware is pointless now?

Deleted-442439 · May 21, 2018

Bedel said:
I think I remember it from SciresM, but I may be wrong. One way or other, stay in 4.1. Never listen to jjbredesen. He's well known here for missunderstanding things.

Wow, just wow I have never misdirected users other than the Hekate SoC stuff, but that came from Kate herselt. If you read my post above you will see exactly what Scires said and it is exactly what I wrote earlier.

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Bedel said:
I think I remember it from SciresM, but I may be wrong. One way or other, stay in 4.1. Never listen to jjbredesen. He's well known here for missunderstanding things.

Scires also never said coldboot only softmod you or the person who told you that is mistaken.

Draxzelex · May 21, 2018

Even with AutoRCM, you still need a USB cable to send whatever payload you want leaving the current tethered coldboot, well, still a tethered coldboot. TX's modchip shows that we can at least make it semi-tethered, meaning you just need to have the dongle with you at all times, otherwise with the SX Pro, the Switch is a paperweight. And since all firmwares can use this exploit as long as they are using the current Switch revision, then there is no point in staying low.

But Atmosphere will be implementing EmuNAND support so we can use the functions of being on the latest firmware while retaining a low SysNAND firmware. Why? Well, that's just speculation. My point is there may be no point in staying low, but if you're willing to wait and got 32 GB to spare, you'll be able to update to the latest firmware anyways. There's no telling what future hacks might be discovered in the future. Remember when 3.0 was considered the holy grail of Switch hacking? Things can change overnight.

Salazar-DE · May 21, 2018

Fusée Gelée is so easy to use that honestly, it's pointless to wait. I updated to play the past 3 months of Splatfests and enjoy Odyssey online with updates and Luigi's Balloon World, and that fun has far surpassed the any convenience for earlier firmwares mentioned in this thread.

alexj9626 · May 21, 2018

So from what i understand there will be exploits to acess CFW/EmuNAND up to 4.1 but those still require user action, just like Fusee Gelee?

If thats correct then is a "pick your poison" situation. Would you get CFW with RCM or with whatever other exploit is needed (Deja Vu i think its called), but it wont be as easy as A9LH/B9S with the 3DS.

So it depends if you want to play the latest games or wait to see what that exploit would be.

I did update and have no regrets. The answer always depends on what you want.

Draxzelex · May 21, 2018

alexj9626 said:
So from what i understand there will be exploits to acess CFW/EmuNAND up to 4.1 but those still require user action, just like Fusee Gelee?

If thats correct then is a "pick your poison" situation. Would you get CFW with RCM or with whatever other exploit is needed (Deja Vu i think its called), but it wont be as easy as A9LH/B9S with the 3DS.

So it depends if you want to play the latest games or wait to see what that exploit would be.

I did update and have no regrets. The answer always depends on what you want.

The softmods I don't believe send you into RCM as that would just make it a tethered softmod, as compared to our current tethered hardmods (with briccmii being the only tethered softmod). They can provide us access that bypasses the Switch's normal security checks to allow us to load whatever code we want to once the Switch is on, or a warmboot. Here's video showcasing what I'm talking about:

But yes, you are right that its down to how patient you are. Do you wanna play Splatoon/MK8 Online now or later?

alexj9626 · May 21, 2018

Draxzelex said:
The softmods I don't believe send you into RCM as that would just make it a tethered softmod, as compared to our current tethered hardmods (with briccmii being the only tethered softmod). They can provide us access that bypasses the Switch's normal security checks to allow us to load whatever code we want to once the Switch is on, or a warmboot. Here's video showcasing what I'm talking about:

But yes, you are right that its down to how patient you are. Do you wanna play Splatoon/MK8 Online now or later?

Thanks, i didnt mean to say that those softmodes boot into RCM, i think i worded it kinda poorly.

It could be something like browserhax on the 3DS/Wii U, right? Some user interaction is needed and it would let you boot CFW or load some code, etc.

Draxzelex · May 21, 2018

alexj9626 said:
Thanks, i didnt mean to say that those softmodes boot into RCM, i think i worded it kinda poorly.

It could be something like browserhax on the 3DS/Wii U, right? Some user interaction is needed and it would let you boot CFW or load some code, etc.

Sorry if I made it seem like I was trying to call you out or something. But essentially yes, its just some code implementation outside of the Tegra's RCM which is what Fusee Gelee does. Its also interesting to note that we haven't seen the softmod for 3.0 and below yet. You would think it would involve Pegaswitch but everyday they don't release it, I think it doesn't involve Pegaswitch. But that's just baseless speculation

Bonk17 · May 21, 2018

So, i guess staying on 4.1.0 isn't really needed. I'll just update my switch and continue playing with my friends and until atmosphere becomes more stable after its released.

Wezaa · May 21, 2018

I was going to stay on 4.1 but accidentally just updated to 5.0.2 by spamming the a button while loading Zelda. Haha. Guess I'll be using the TX dongle for the foreseeable future. Honestly don't mind. Haven't fully modded my wiiU, still have to go to a website to boot into HBL.

I suppose the question is.
If you wanna be able to:
Access the eShop
Update games
Play online

Then you have to be on latest FW.

Weather you use TX or Atmosphere, going online is probably gonna result in a ban at some point.
I'm just speculating that, it doesn't matter what FW you are on if you are going to modify your system as you'll likely end up with a banned console either way.

It's a win/lose situation at this point, unless something can be done to guarantee no detection for bans. But that is very unlikely to ever happen, there is never a guarantee.

Draxzelex · May 21, 2018

Wezaa said:
I was going to stay on 4.1 but accidentally just updated to 5.0.2 by spamming the a button while loading Zelda. Haha. Guess I'll be using the TX dongle for the foreseeable future. Honestly don't mind. Haven't fully modded my wiiU, still have to go to a website to boot into HBL.

I suppose the question is.
If you wanna be able to:
Access the eShop
Update games
Play online

Then you have to be on latest FW.

Weather you use TX or Atmosphere, going online is probably gonna result in a ban at some point.
I'm just speculating that, it doesn't matter what FW you are on if you are going to modify your system as you'll likely end up with a banned console either way.

It's a win/lose situation at this point, unless something can be done to guarantee no detection for bans. But that is very unlikely to ever happen, there is never a guarantee.

It could also go down to who you trust more on NOT getting banned. One is open source we might be able to theory-craft a reason why some people might start getting banned, implement a fix, and prevent more people from getting banned. With TX, it'll be closed source so if people get banned, we won't know exactly why or it'll be harder to postulate. TX may update their software to help mitigate that issue if it does arise.

mrsupertom · May 21, 2018

Salazar-DE said:
Fusée Gelée is so easy to use that honestly, it's pointless to wait. I updated to play the past 3 months of Splatfests and enjoy Odyssey online with updates and Luigi's Balloon World, and that fun has far surpassed the any convenience for earlier firmwares mentioned in this thread.

I agree massively with this ^^^ -> Been on 5.0.2 for a while now for the eshop games etc and honestly, I'd be perfectly happy running a 'tethered' exploit indefinitely, just as soon as the sleep mode bug is resolved (either in Hekate or Atmosphere). My switch drains barely 1% per day in sleep mode... One Fusee Gelee injection and so long as you don't manually power down your switch, you'd be set

TL;DR - Tethered boot on latest FW > Coldboot on older (offline only) FW

Ivellios · May 22, 2018

jjbredesen said:
There will never be coldboot above 1.0.0, the sortmods will still require user action. Persistent CFW will not happen without autorcm and a modchip soldered to the D+ and D- testpads on the PCB.

As for staying on lower FW if you are on <--- 4.1.0 you get a non persistent softmod and lower FW will prob be more stable, but that is really it.

If you are using autorm and have no problem with it, there is not much point.

Im sorry but this confused me a bit, what do you mean by user action? if i am in the FW 3.0.2 after atmosphere sofmod releases, do i still need to use a PC and USB-c cable?

kamesenin888 · May 22, 2018

Draxzelex said:
It could also go down to who you trust more on NOT getting banned. One is open source we might be able to theory-craft a reason why some people might start getting banned, implement a fix, and prevent more people from getting banned. With TX, it'll be closed source so if people get banned, we won't know exactly why or it'll be harder to postulate. TX may update their software to help mitigate that issue if it does arise.

dude when the bans occurred in the 3ds, luma users, gateway users and even rx tools users(lol) had no clue what happened

tri_fin · May 22, 2018

The more I read the less I know.

Generally I learn by making mistakes and then working out how to correct them. So trying to understand what I may have to do in the future is just beyond me. Am I alone?

Something rarely mentioned in all this should I upgrade or not is that knowledge has shown to become incorrect or less correct in the future. What we know now will be surpassed in the future. Also just because someone invents or finds a solution that does not mean they know how best to use it....

Don't upgrade!

Draxzelex · May 22, 2018

tri_fin said:
The more I read the less I know.

Generally I learn by making mistakes and then working out how to correct them. So trying to understand what I may have to do in the future is just beyond me. Am I alone?

Something rarely mentioned in all this should I upgrade or not is that knowledge has shown to become incorrect or less correct in the future. What we know now will be surpassed in the future. Also just because someone invents or finds a solution that does not mean they know how best to use it....

Don't upgrade!

In the past, we were always fixated on the mantra "The lower your firmware, the better your chances of hacking". This was true because with each new firmware update, something would be patched out so theoretically, there were more exploits to be found the lower your firmware was. However, now we have an unpatchable hardware exploit that will work no matter how much we update our Switches. The only issue, you could call it, is that it involves some type of hard or softmod but most importantly a type of tethering. If we had access to an untethered coldboot like the 3DS, then it would be probably safe to say staying on low firmware is pointless. But some people do mind having to stick a USB cable or dongle into the Switch to access hacks so until then, stay as low as possible.

tivu100 · May 22, 2018

jjbredesen said:
There will never be coldboot above 1.0.0, the sortmods will still require user action. Persistent CFW will not happen without autorcm and a modchip soldered to the D+ and D- testpads on the PCB.

As for staying on lower FW if you are on <--- 4.1.0 you get a non persistent softmod and lower FW will prob be more stable, but that is really it.

If you are using autorm and have no problem with it, there is not much point.

I am slow so please reconfirm. So only 1.0.0 would have real coldboot, while even 2.x-3.0 has to go through the secondary user inputting step? So 2.x-3.0-4.1 in a sense is no better than current firmware?

Edit. NVM. Just read what SciresM has to say

Deleted-355425 · May 22, 2018

I wouldn’t move off 2.x to 3.0.0 incase we get Softmod to launch the cfw instead of relying on a dongle/modchip etc.

tri_fin · May 22, 2018

Draxzelex said:
In the past, we were always fixated on the mantra "The lower your firmware, the better your chances of hacking". This was true because with each new firmware update, something would be patched out so theoretically, there were more exploits to be found the lower your firmware was. However, now we have an unpatchable hardware exploit that will work no matter how much we update our Switches. The only issue, you could call it, is that it involves some type of hard or softmod but most importantly a type of tethering. If we had access to an untethered coldboot like the 3DS, then it would be probably safe to say staying on low firmware is pointless. But some people do mind having to stick a USB cable or dongle into the Switch to access hacks so until then, stay as low as possible.

That's all true (as far as I know) apart from the fact that no one can with total certainty say that in the future there may be way of using new or existing tools in different ways even SciresM or Kate.

So with that in mind unless there is a reason to upgrade why would one? Everyone's situation is different but I am hoping that I will be able to run current version CFW on my old FW Switch when everything is out. To clarify I have 2 Switches one on a higher firmware that I use and one an early fw that I saving to hack.

But I would still say don't upgrade if you want to keep your options open.

megadrixfire · May 22, 2018

tivu100 said:
I am slow so please reconfirm. So only 1.0.0 would have real coldboot, while even 2.x-3.0 has to go through the secondary user inputting step? So 2.x-3.0-4.1 in a sense is no better than current firmware?

Edit. NVM. Just read what SciresM has to say

So 2.x-3.0-4.1 in a sense is no better than current firmware?

Where can I find what SciresM has to say??

tivu100 · May 22, 2018

megadrixfire said:
So 2.x-3.0-4.1 in a sense is no better than current firmware?

Where can I find what SciresM has to say??

https://gbatemp.net/threads/staying-on-low-firmware-is-pointless-now.504836/#post-7993450

So, up to 4.1 it's still little more convenient through an user input exploit (however you will need EMUNAND for new game/ updates... so in a sense it balance out). Only 1.0.0 looks more positive for coldboothax but that may take time before it become reality... That's my interpretation

Hacking Staying on low firmware is pointless now?

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