Homebrew Citra - Unofficial \ Chinese builds discussion

asferot · Mar 16, 2018

Wait. I thought those whiny idiots were just some stupid skiddies.
They were actually official devs? The hell?
Sure. Unofficial builds can be quite hacky and ugly but they have 0 reason to act like little shits. These builds have 0 influence on their official codebase. Why are they even here shitting on enthusiasts who make their own forks for fun, challenge and such?

Deleted User · Mar 16, 2018

asferot said:
These builds have 0 influence on their official codebase.

You guys aren't getting this - they do. A huge number of devs have become burnt out because all of their work ended up on some shitty build on some corner of the web which spread around. This doesn't motivate the authors at all. The recent GPU update was entirely developed in private because the authors knew that we would lose motivation if a unofficial build got their hands on it.

player594 said:
And if the unofficial builders/hackers find a way to help the emu with their builds, talk to them and figure out what their doing.

The various hacks posted around here don't help the emu at all. If someone has a fix, they should contribute as such on our Github, IRC or Discord - we aren't a closed community. If you are willing to contribute high quality code, we are happy to discuss stuff. Hacks aren't high quality.

To those claiming GPL: you are entirely free to do so, but what is legal != what is ethical.

You guys are the ones burning us out, and causing development to slow down + occur in private. Don't play the innocent card.

drwhojan · Mar 16, 2018

No wonder why I mostly gave up, and don't give much of a s*hit lol. ^^^^

perkel · Mar 16, 2018

jselby said:
You guys aren't getting this - they do. A huge number of devs have become burnt out because all of their work ended up on some shitty build on some corner of the web which spread around. This doesn't motivate the authors at all. The recent GPU update was entirely developed in private because the authors knew that we would lose motivation if a unofficial build got their hands on it.

So this is what thing whole thing is about. It is not about code and who is doing what but about pats you get on your back. How about then do everything private ? You already did that with GPU update by your own words.

Maybe next time instead just say "we think those builds receive way to much community applaud while our forums are dead and this demotivates our developers who want to be seen by people around !"

It is understandable.

Either way i think whole debate is moot now as with GPU update release most of games which don't crash at start get 100% speed which means no need for unofficial builds. Even me with AMD gpu i can run most of the important titles (aside from very few games) at 100% speed no problem.

I am testing today a lot of games and so far:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/citra-new-3ds-emulator.365154/page-354

animal crossing: new leaf - 100% speed - works perfectly
cooking mama 4 - 100% speed - works perfectly
radiant historia perfect chronology - 100% speed - works perfectly
super mario 3d world - 100% speed - works perfectly
the legend of zelda: ocarina of time - 100% speed - works perfectly
etrian oddysey V - beyond the myth - mostly 100% speed (in levelup ui screen 70% outside of that 100%)
river city: tokyo rumble - 100% speed - works perfectly
bravely default - 100% speed - works perfectly
rune factory 4 - 100% speed - works perfectly

fire emblem games - crashing
monster hunter games - crashing
i heard on nvidia gpu those don't crash.

This is so far have tested and i am still testing. i5-3570k@4,5Ghz|AMD HD7970| 8GB DDR3

player594 · Mar 16, 2018

jselby said:
You guys aren't getting this - they do. A huge number of devs have become burnt out because all of their work ended up on some shitty build on some corner of the web which spread around. This doesn't motivate the authors at all. The recent GPU update was entirely developed in private because the authors knew that we would lose motivation if a unofficial build got their hands on it.

The various hacks posted around here don't help the emu at all. If someone has a fix, they should contribute as such on our Github, IRC or Discord - we aren't a closed community. If you are willing to contribute high quality code, we are happy to discuss stuff. Hacks aren't high quality.

To those claiming GPL: you are entirely free to do so, but what is legal != what is ethical.

You guys are the ones burning us out, and causing development to slow down + occur in private. Don't play the innocent card.

So what is your incentive to keep developing? Is it praise or worship? Or maybe monetary? But I haven't seen where you ever asked to be paid. I personally test both official and unofficial builds because I enjoy watching the emulation progress one way or the other. If it's just feedback you want, then just listen to the comments and issues that are brought up on git hub or discord or wherever you get "official" info. Maybe you could tell the unofficial builders to change the labeling in the top of their builds to say unofficial build version blah blah blah to keep the users from reporting problems with theirs instead of the official builds. I'm not trying to start a war here. I don't think theirs are better than your, because without yours there would be none. But I do believe both have a legitimate purpose for the end user. Your development of the emu should be be sure you enjoy making something from nothing, which is exactly what your doing. It shouldn't rely on other people's assessment of it. You should be your own critic when it comes to your work. Others positive opinions are just a bonus.

By the way keep up the excellent work on the emu.[emoji6]

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asferot · Mar 16, 2018

Anyways.

Has someone thought about implementing multiplayer connection that does not require connecting to arbitrary servers first?
At lest a way to run said server on my own PC so I can play with a friend no matter what happens.

Also.

jselby said:
You guys are the ones burning us out, and causing development to slow down + occur in private. Don't play the innocent card.

This sounds like a massive excuse. No idea for what. Laziness, lack of interest or something else, but excuse none the less.

demonata · Mar 16, 2018

windwakr said:
Did you forget what license Citra is released under? Here, a helpful reminder:
https://github.com/citra-emu/citra/blob/master/license.txt

1. Best quote out of context ever
2. Well B3N30 said this 2nd point already.

demonata · Mar 16, 2018

player594 said:
Here is my problem with the devs coming into the unofficial thread and bashing the builds on here. They say that unofficial builds hurt the official builds, this is not true. If they were adding their code to the official repository I would agree but their not. They use the official code and alter it and build it for users to try. The official code is intact. The devs can keep developing it as usual. It hurts nothing. Their hacks are there just until official development surpasses it. And if the unofficial builders/hackers find a way to help the emu with their builds, talk to them and figure out what their doing. Communicate ( not necessarily in the forum) to find the correct solution.

My point is, if you don't like the unofficial builds, stay focused on what your doing and find other solutions to the problems at hand. To each their own, remember?

Rant over.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

TBH you seems too innocent to provide any sort of comments or opinions.
A development project can go wrong in so many ways other than simply "adding bad code to the main repository".
You're simply DISMISSING Developer's reported issue on *project status*, just because you DO NOT APPROVE IT AS ANY KIND OF ISSUE.

player594 said:
So what is your incentive to keep developing? Is it praise or worship? Or maybe monetary? But I haven't seen where you ever asked to be paid. I personally test both official and unofficial builds because I enjoy watching the emulation progress one way or the other. If it's just feedback you want, then just listen to the comments and issues that are brought up on git hub or discord or wherever you get "official" info. Maybe you could tell the unofficial builders to change the labeling in the top of their builds to say unofficial build version blah blah blah to keep the users from reporting problems with theirs instead of the official builds. I'm not trying to start a war here. I don't think theirs are better than your, because without yours there would be none. But I do believe both have a legitimate purpose for the end user. Your development of the emu should be be sure you enjoy making something from nothing, which is exactly what your doing. It shouldn't rely on other people's assessment of it. You should be your own critic when it comes to your work. Others positive opinions are just a bonus.

By the way keep up the excellent work on the emu.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

You're getting products from IT developers, and now you're despising Core IT Nerds...(either intended or by misjudging)
I hope you accept the FACT that unofficial builds have their adverse effect - it's not something made up by core Devs to scare people.
But if you are to try understanding the reason behind, please do it in a PROPER ATTITUDE.

Back to topic,
unofficial build labels << Not sure if anyone suggested this - but unofficial builders weren't 100% cooperative, is it better now?
test builds << well someone else explained the diverged pool of users already

And how unofficial builds would cause problem in issue reporting - Testers aren't going to recognize which code version their build is using, and Devs aren't going to know every single unofficial builds either.
And even IF every single unofficial build issues went to the correct builders, are the builders going to handle them all, with the fix correctly contributing back to latest builds?
How is it contributing back to master branch, or are such fix stuck in unofficial builds forever?
There is much to talk about.

player594 · Mar 16, 2018

demonata said:
TBH you seems too innocent to provide any sort of comments or opinions.
A development project can go wrong in so many ways other than simply "adding bad code to the main repository".
You're simply DISMISSING Developer's reported issue on *project status*, just because you DO NOT APPROVE IT AS ANY KIND OF ISSUE.

You're getting products from IT developers, and now you're despising Core IT Nerds...(either intended or by misjudging)
I hope you accept the FACT that unofficial builds have their adverse effect - it's not something made up by core Devs to scare people.
But if you are to try understanding the reason behind, please do it in a PROPER ATTITUDE.

Back to topic,
unofficial build labels << Not sure if anyone suggested this - but unofficial builders weren't 100% cooperative, is it better now?
test builds << well someone else explained the diverged pool of users already

And how unofficial builds would cause problem in issue reporting - Testers aren't going to recognize which code version their build is using, and Devs aren't going to know every single unofficial builds either.
And even IF every single unofficial build issues went to the correct builders, are the builders going to handle them all, with the fix correctly contributing back to latest builds?
How is it contributing back to master branch, or are such fix stuck in unofficial builds forever?
There is much to talk about.

Number 1: How us my attitude improper. I'm just trying to understand how they harm the original code if they can't alter it in the repository in any way.

Each official or unofficial build should have some sort of build number, so if the user is wanting to report on a specific issue they need only report in the appropriate location stating build number and problem. With the official builds being titled something different from the unofficial one they should be able to keep them separate. If they do report in the wrong place( and I'm sure they will, can't be helped with stupidity) delete their report and say wrong emu or something. Adding the title official to the build before you build it and put it on your site would help differentiate the two. Keep that bit out of the main code till then. Tedious I know, but it would be a start. If they could put unofficial in theirs it would be even better.

Look I'm not trying to be an are or anything, I'm Just trying to find a way both can coexist equally. This isn't the first emu to be nodded and put out. But it didn't kill the others though. They just kept doing what they were doing.

If it makes you feel better keep the code private with a select trusted few with a diverse pc setups to test. And when you feel it ready for the world, set it free. It doesn't matter to me, either way. I have 3ds I can play games on. I just enjoy testing and keeping up with different emulator builds. I've been around the emulation scene testing and commenting when necessary for years. Back when epsxe first got started. Do as you like though, I can't change you or you me.

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demonata · Mar 16, 2018

asferot said:
Wait. I thought those whiny idiots were just some stupid skiddies.
They were actually official devs? The hell?
Sure. Unofficial builds can be quite hacky and ugly but they have 0 reason to act like little shits. These builds have 0 influence on their official codebase. Why are they even here shitting on enthusiasts who make their own forks for fun, challenge and such?

Why everyone thinks there is no problem as long as main branch is clean?
This ain't no student messing up their local SVN folders for a homework and got a B.
If something goes wrong & discovered in time, just revert the change.
If something can't even pass QA, or "retest after fix" ain't happening on time, why bother bringing it up.

1. Temp Solutions and Placeholder codes CAN do harm in real world situations - you need to rationalize why it does or why it doesn't in every case. Claiming "it doesn't" like a fact means you've no idea at all.
2. Poorly managed test Environment is a nightmare to Devs. Code management is even easier with github. Wait I can even call it *test Environment* in this open community?

player594 · Mar 16, 2018

demonata said:
Why everyone thinks there is no problem as long as main branch is clean?
This ain't no student messing up their local SVN folders for a homework and got a B.
If something goes wrong & discovered in time, just revert the change.
If something can't even pass QA, or "retest after fix" ain't happening on time, why bother bringing it up.

1. Temp Solutions and Placeholder codes CAN do harm in real world situations - you need to rationalize why it does or why it doesn't in every case. Claiming "it doesn't" like a fact means you've no idea at all.
2. Poorly managed test Environment is a nightmare to Devs. Code management is even easier with github. Wait I can even call it *test Environment* in this open community?

Then explain it for us.

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demonata · Mar 16, 2018

player594 said:
Number 1: How us my attitude improper. I'm just trying to understand how they harm the original code if they can't alter it in the repository in any way.

Each official or unofficial build should have some sort of build number, so if the user is wanting to report on a specific issue they need only report in the appropriate location stating build number and problem. With the official builds being titled something different from the unofficial one they should be able to keep them separate. If they do report in the wrong place( and I'm sure they will, can't be helped with stupidity) delete their report and say wrong emu or something. Adding the title official to the build before you build it and put it on your site would help differentiate the two. Keep that bit out of the main code till then. Tedious I know, but it would be a start. If they could put unofficial in theirs it would be even better.

Look I'm not trying to be an are or anything, I'm Just trying to find a way both can coexist equally. This isn't the first emu to be nodded and put out. But it didn't kill the others though. They just kept doing what they were doing.

If it makes you feel better keep the code private with a select trusted few with a diverse pc setups to test. And when you feel it ready for the world, set it free. It doesn't matter to me, either way. I have 3ds I can play games on. I just enjoy testing and keeping up with different emulator builds. I've been around the emulation scene testing and commenting when necessary for years. Back when epsxe first got started. Do as you like though, I can't change you or you me.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

You have poor attitude because Dev incentive is *probably* "praise or worship? Or maybe monetary?".
That is your first guess huh? Nice.
Now I have to figure out whether you're trying to understand things, or just simply being a jerk. What should be my first guess to voice out?

Well you can write a procedure doc and see if unofficial builders follow. I doubt we have any feature to force it into builds (could be done much sooner).

I also believe that both can coexist, given it's done properly and avoiding/mitigating any known impacts - but at the same time, things could just be done in canary.

player594 · Mar 16, 2018

You have poor attitude because Dev incentive is *probably* "praise or worship? Or maybe monetary?".
That is your first guess huh? Nice.

Then what is it? I legitimately want to know. I wasn't trying to be a smartass, I want to know what pushes you to code this emu. If its for fun then others altering your leftovers(which is basicly what it is once you continue with the core code) should be of no interest to you or amusing to see the direction they are going with it. If it's to learn then it sound like your mad that your not getting help with homework. Your work is yours.

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demonata · Mar 16, 2018

player594 said:
Then explain it for us.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

That's why I said "you seems too innocent to provide any sort of comments or opinions."

player594 said:
You have poor attitude because Dev incentive is *probably* "praise or worship? Or maybe monetary?".
That is your first guess huh? Nice.

Then what is it? I legitimately want to know. I wasn't trying to be a smartass, I want to know what pushes you to code this emu. If its for fun then others altering your leftovers(which is basicly what it is once you continue with the core code) should be of no interest to you or amusing to see the direction they are going with it. If it's to learn then it sound like your mad that your not getting help with homework. Your work is yours.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I'm not a Dev in this emu (nor any emu - I leaked what I am few pages ago, in case you ask about this BS),
but if you're looking for knowledge about Dev management in Project Citra - which is a half-mess right now - and you're not buying Core Dev's words - you're expecting someone to give you answers, from scratch.
What should I answer?
Testers using old codes versions? Testers using *unknown* code versions?
Delivered fix not tested in time and things can't proceed?
Code behaviour goes haywire in builds of unknown components?
Reports of issues from codes that aren't supposed to be built yet?
Testers asking weird questions initiated by weird builds?
Testers having weird behaviours after using some weird builds? << (My tester at work actually had this problem. Delayed fix, not properly informed, prolonged exposure to defective Test Environment.)

And hundreds more things to grind away the will of a Dev/Mgnt.

player594 · Mar 16, 2018

demonata said:
That's why I said "you seems too innocent to provide any sort of comments or opinions."

I'm not a Dev in this emu (nor any emu - I leaked what I am few pages ago, in case you ask about this BS),
but if you're looking for knowledge about Dev management in Project Citra - which is a half-mess right now - and you're not buying Core Dev's words - you're expecting someone to give you answers, from scratch.
What should I answer?
Testers using old codes versions? Testers using *unknown* code versions?
Delivered fix not tested in time and things can't proceed?
Code behaviour goes haywire in builds of unknown components?
Reports of issues from codes that aren't supposed to be built yet?
Testers asking weird questions initiated by weird builds?
Testers having weird behaviours after using some weird builds? << (My tester at work actually had this problem. Delayed fix, not properly informed, prolonged exposure to defective Test Environment.)

And hundreds more things to grind away the will of a Dev/Mgnt.

This isn't a business it's a project. And your first sentence makes absolutely no sense. What does too innocent mean anyway? I'm not a kid if that's what your implying.

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demonata · Mar 16, 2018

player594 said:
This isn't a business it's a project. And your first sentence makes absolutely no sense. What does too innocent mean anyway? I'm not a kid if that's what your implying.

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Guys, this is so fxxked up. Those actually have things to discuss, please continue.

And you, maybe you should start with *taking* Devs' words, not *dismissing* or *harassing* them.

Wrzl · Mar 16, 2018

Most of those issues are related to ignorant users, which is mostly unavoidable and drove many devs mad, even without forks and unofficial builds to increase the confusion.

Let‘s say I‘m a 5 star chef and one day someone takes all my recipe ideas and makes fast food versions of it. I resent that because now people talk about those versions as if they were the real thing. But, at the same time, if I‘m a chef because I‘m passionate about cooking and eating, I would find it strange to quit entirely because someone else makes hacky versions of my dishes. I or you can‘t change the fact that many people go to McFastfoodcopy, not least because it‘s just more affordable. But, there are still a lot of people who appreciate the real thing in the analogy as well as in the case of citra.

Either way, thank you to all the citra devs for all your hard work.

player594 · Mar 16, 2018

demonata said:
Guys, this is so fxxked up. Those actually have things to discuss, please continue.

And you, maybe you should start with *taking* Devs' words, not *dismissing* or *harassing* them.

I'm not dismissing anything or harassing anyone. I'm just looking for an explanation which I have yet to get. My problem started when the devs came into the unofficial citra thread and called the build compiled by those in here shit. It was uncalled for. These guys haven't been saying Canary builds were crap. They just tweaked them a little for their own purposes. They didn't claim they were the original authors of said emu. They want no money or ask for no praise from the users. You want to know some developers who have the right to be pissed? That the PCSX2 devs. Their code is being used by lowlifes who are claiming it their work to make an Android emu, and asking for money. The PCSX2 devs should be mad as hell.

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asferot · Mar 16, 2018

demonata said:
Guys, this is so fxxked up. Those actually have things to discuss, please continue.

And you, maybe you should start with *taking* Devs' words, not *dismissing* or *harassing* them.

Official devs coming here and humiliating people that is harassment.
Disagreeing with those idiots is NOT harassment.

player594 · Mar 16, 2018

asferot said:
Official devs coming here and humiliating people that is harassment.
Disagreeing with those idiots is NOT harassment.

We don't need to be name calling. Outs immature. But I agree with the rest.

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Homebrew Citra - Unofficial \ Chinese builds discussion

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