Hacking r.i.p., GMMUHax

the_randomizer · Mar 14, 2018

TheCyberQuake said:
Apparently it was talked about at CCC but I must have missed that

Yeah, know one seems to know what it was, no one even mentioned it.

TheCyberQuake · Mar 14, 2018

the_randomizer said:
Yeah, know one seems to know what it was, no one even mentioned it.

We didn't know about smhax until that was patched. They usually try to keep things on the downlow until it gets patched

Zulnoth · Mar 14, 2018

TheCyberQuake said:
If you keep updating you won't be able to be in the scene. 4.1.0 is confirmed to have cfw being made with an updateable emunand. Unless you want hardmod at this point you can't really be in the scene.

Look, while I agree with your sentiments and am not updating my consoles barring my main one, the same thing was permanently said about the 3ds all the way along. Where there is firmware, there is bugs. I'm not saying that the switch is necessarily the same, but throughout history there's been a lot of "do not go past this"and then past it ended up being fine down the track.

ScarletDreamz · Mar 14, 2018

For those wondering:

The Switch's GPU includes a separate MMU (GMMU) that is allowed to bypass the system's IOMMU (SMMU). By accessing the GPU's MMIO region and manipulating the page table entries in the GMMU, an attacker can read/write any portion of the DRAM (except memory carveouts).

[5.0.0+] Works around this hardware flaw by using memory pool partitioning. You can no longer escalate into sysmodules with GPU DMA because all their memory is allocated using heap that's carved out.

the_randomizer · Mar 14, 2018

ScarletDreamz said:
For those wondering:

The Switch's GPU includes a separate MMU (GMMU) that is allowed to bypass the system's IOMMU (SMMU). By accessing the GPU's MMIO region and manipulating the page table entries in the GMMU, an attacker can read/write any portion of the DRAM (except memory carveouts).

[5.0.0+] Works around this hardware flaw by using memory pool partitioning. You can no longer escalate into sysmodules with GPU DMA because all their memory is allocated using heap that's carved out.

And literally no one but a select few knew there even was an exploit for this

TheCyberQuake said:
We didn't know about smhax until that was patched. They usually try to keep things on the downlow until it gets patched

So yeah, being kept in the dark makes it hard to stay up to day. I think there should be more open sharing of info in the Switch scene.

ScarletDreamz · Mar 14, 2018

Exploits stay on the dark to have more entrypoints before they get patched.

Meaning, that now this is Patched, people MIGHT work more openly on these ones.

Kafluke · Mar 14, 2018

I feel like its give and take. If they dont want to be hounded about their exploits and really want to keep things private then don't make YouTube videos bragging about what they have done. Truly keep it to yourself and decide if you want to release or not. If you post proof, expect the outcome. If you get pissed at people for hounding you then its your fault for posting about it. Choices have consequences

TheCyberQuake · Mar 14, 2018

the_randomizer said:
And literally no one but a select few knew there even was an exploit for this

So yeah, being kept in the dark makes it hard to stay up to day. I think there should be more open sharing of info in the Switch scene.

Except if they are more open about exploits, those exploits get patched faster. You never seem to understand that they keep these things in the dark for the better good of the community and potentially longer lasting exploits across more firmwares.

TheCyberQuake · Mar 14, 2018

Kafluke said:
I feel like its give and take. If they dont want to be hounded about their exploits and really want to keep things private then don't make YouTube videos bragging about what they have done. Truly keep it to yourself and decide if you want to release or not. If you post proof, expect the outcome. If you get pissed at people for hounding you then its your fault for posting about it. Choices have consequences

Different devs do things differently. The ones keeping things quiet are usually not the ones posting videos.

the_randomizer · Mar 14, 2018

TheCyberQuake said:
Except if they are more open about exploits, those exploits get patched faster. You never seem to understand that they keep these things in the dark for the better good of the community and potentially longer lasting exploits across more firmwares.

Then maybe it's best to keep expectations in check and remain neutral so we don't end up having any expectations at all. Neutrality has its benefits; you don't get let down or disappointed as much. Or just not have them tell us about them at all until they're released instead of building up hype, more likely to be surprised then, teasers be damned.

MSearles · Mar 14, 2018

A switch is currently being switched to me. Does it matter if it has firmware 4.0 instead of 4.1? Is there any significant loss for me, since I now can't update to 4.1 and have to stay at 4.0? Am I still able to use any hack for it?

TheCyberQuake · Mar 14, 2018

the_randomizer said:
Then maybe it's best to keep expectations in check and remain neutral so we don't end up having any expectations at all. Neutrality has its benefits; you don't get let down or disappointed as much.

How would someone be disappointed by this? This would only be good news unless you updated, because it means more exploits. But if you updated to 5.0.0 then you don't care what the devs say anyway because they've been saying to not update since the beginning.

the_randomizer · Mar 14, 2018

TheCyberQuake said:
How would someone be disappointed by this? This would only be good news unless you updated, because it means more exploits. But if you updated to 5.0.0 then you don't care what the devs say anyway because they've been saying to not update since the beginning.

I'm not on 5.0.0, I'm just saying that maybe they should at least release the exploits when they're good and ready, and still tell people not to update anyway, and once done, release it and avoid any teasing. Why can't they do that instead?

TheCyberQuake · Mar 14, 2018

Zulnoth said:
Look, while I agree with your sentiments and am not updating my consoles barring my main one, the same thing was permanently said about the 3ds all the way along. Where there is firmware, there is bugs. I'm not saying that the switch is necessarily the same, but throughout history there's been a lot of "do not go past this"and then past it ended up being fine down the track.

Ps3. Yeah it got hacked, but it was years later when the console stopped being relevant. It's not impossible, but the likelihood of it happening during the consoles relevancy is low, and that's when most people would want to use homebrew.

TheCyberQuake · Mar 14, 2018

the_randomizer said:
I'm not on 5.0.0, I'm just saying that maybe they should at least release the exploits when they're good and ready, and still tell people not to update anyway, and once done, release it and avoid any teasing. Why can't they do that instead?

We've seen what happens when they merely say "don't update" without showing that something is in the works. People update anyway because they feel nothing is coming soon, and then the exploit ends up coming out much sooner and leave people upset that they update.

the_randomizer · Mar 14, 2018

TheCyberQuake said:
We've seen what happens when they merely say "don't update" without showing that something is in the works. People update anyway because they feel nothing is coming soon, and then the exploit ends up coming out much sooner and leave people upset that they update.

But people still update even if they say not to update, I fail to see the difference.

Quantumcat · Mar 14, 2018

Zulnoth said:
Look, while I agree with your sentiments and am not updating my consoles barring my main one, the same thing was permanently said about the 3ds all the way along. Where there is firmware, there is bugs. I'm not saying that the switch is necessarily the same, but throughout history there's been a lot of "do not go past this"and then past it ended up being fine down the track.

Whenever there's a hack for the Switch it is likely to be on a non-current firmware. If you are always up-to-date you'll always miss out. Maybe soon there will be something for 4.1 and you'll miss out, then later there will be something for 8.3 but the latest will be 9.0 etc etc. You'll probably be waiting a couple of years for the Switch to have a hack on the latest version, if the 3DS is anything to go by (briefly there were hacks on latest firmware at 9.2 and 10.3 etc but only for a couple of weeks each time)

TheCyberQuake · Mar 14, 2018

Quantumcat said:
Whenever there's a hack for the Switch it is likely to be on a non-current firmware. If you are always up-to-date you'll always miss out. Maybe soon there will be something for 4.1 and you'll miss out, then later there will be something for 8.3 but the latest will be 9.0 etc etc. You'll probably be waiting a couple of years for the Switch to have a hack on the latest version, if the 3DS is anything to go by (briefly there were hacks on latest firmware at 9.2 and 10.3 etc but only for a couple of weeks each time)

How switch dev has worked so far, exploits don't release until after they have been patched. So if someone always updates, they'll never have exploits because those exploits that release are already patched. The only thing that would save anyone updating would be a hardware bootrom exploit.

Xanthe · Mar 14, 2018

Lmfao you losers still upset about 5.0.0? I'm chillin here on 6.0.0

Soluble · Mar 15, 2018

Xanthe said:
Lmfao you losers still upset about 5.0.0? I'm chillin here on 6.0.0

More stability?

Hacking r.i.p., GMMUHax

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