Net Neutrality: what it is, and why you should care

641313984.jpg

UPDATE: It's been voted for repeal. The FCC took Net Neutrality to a vote, and it was 3-2, in favor of repeal. This doesn't mean overnight upheaval, but things will certainly change, for better or worse, in due time.
If you've been on the internet at all the past week, there's a high chance that you've heard of something called "Net Neutrality", and you've also likely heard that there might be huge changes to your usage of the internet entirely. This post serves as a quick information briefing on what Net Neutrality is, what could happen if it's repealed, and the current events going on regarding it, and just general visibility to let the community in general be informed.

What is this Net Neutrality thing?


The basic definition of network neutrality is simple: all internet traffic is considered and treated equally. It was established just a bit under three years ago, in February 2015. It prevented companies like Comcast Xfinity and AT&T U-verse from speeding up, or slowing down certain sites based upon content. If you remember, back in July 2017, mobile provider Verizon admitted to targeting Netflix traffic, and specifically throttling it, negatively affecting customers' use of Netflix. Going back to 2014, there were also issues with Comcast customers, and, that's right, Netflix users, as connections to Netflix were notoriously slow. Netflix then entered a legal deal with Comcast, in order to have Netflix connections be faster than they previously were. The 2014 incident was pre-net neutrality, and shows that before the law was enacted, certain sites like Netflix were indeed slowed, and had to specifically bargain with large telecommunication monopolies like Comcast to get fair speeds out to their customers.

In April 2017, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Ajit Pai, revealed that he had plans to repeal net neutrality. It's worth noting that Pai was once the Associate General Counsel of Verizon Communications, an incredibly high up position with an ISP, who we've stated before as having throttled websites in the past.

Pai's statements on the matter included saying such things as "[the government] would be able to stop micromanaging the internet" and that the FCC and internet service providers would simply have to be "transparent about their practices so that consumers can buy a service plan that's best for them". Shortly after, Comcast began vocally supporting these statements, claiming that government regulation of the internet has been harming innovation and investments of Comcast. David Cohen, the company's Chief Diversity Officer, said that "customers would be clearly informed on our practices [...] Comcast maintains that it does and will not block, throttle, or discriminate against lawful content".

Within the movement for repealing net neutrality, also comes with power being given to the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC would then have the ability to legally charge internet service providers that were not made clear to customers.

You may notice, that within any of the claims made by Pai or Comcast, that equal traffic was never made the focus, instead putting emphasis on making sure these monopolies must be clear and transparent about what they do, but never laying down any solid rules about what they need to be transparent about or why. And, of course, if the FTC were to go after AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, Time Warner, or other assorted companies for not being transparent, these legal cases would find themselves taking years to make their way to court, allowing for them to have their way with their customers until a definitive legal ruling. Therein lies the first batch of unease and controversy with the repeal.

In short, net neutrality is a fairly new regulation, which allows for equal traffic between all sites while using the internet. The chairman of the FCC and former higher-up of Verizon wants to repeal it, however. This would allow less government interference with ISPs, but would also allow those ISPs to do what they wish, so long as they're "transparent".

Does repealing Net Neutrality have any benefits?

Spoiler alert: not really

From the inception of the internet, and up until 2015, Americans have gone without net neutrality. Ajit Pai claims that should we not have net neutrality anymore, more rural areas would be able to have more companies and providers, and it would allow for more competition and choice for the consumer. However, these smaller companies would also have to fight it out with established services, with years of experience and infrastructure refinements.

As a side note, I've spent thirty minutes researching a potential "pro" argument. I've not found many that seem reasonable. I've listed in the spoiler tag below arguments from other websites and blogs.

Green Garage Blog: While net neutrality allows for freedom of speech, the downside is that almost anything can be posted to the internet. This means that the cruelest or insensitive information imaginable can end up on the internet, and as a result, it can cause a lot of problems from people that otherwise wouldn’t be prone to being under the microscope of criticism. This means that people can post cruel, intimidating, or other harassing messages and often get away with it thanks to free speech legislation. So it can be a very toxic environment for a lot of people to put up with.

Vittana: Reduced income from internet uses limits infrastructure improvements.
There are certain businesses and high-use individuals who consume large amounts of bandwidth every month. If net neutrality was removed, these high-level consumers would be asked to pay more for what they consume. This added income could then be used to upgrade the infrastructure of each internet service provider, making it possible for advanced fiber networks to be installed in many communities.

AEI: But in many instances, fast lanes, zero-rating, and the like benefit customers. In separate research, both former FCC Chief Economist Michael Katz (with Ben Hermalin) and I (with Janice Hauge) showed that fast lanes benefit small content providers in their attempts to compete with established industry leaders. AEI scholar Roslyn Layton has shown that elderly and low-income consumers benefit from zero-rating services.

Basically, the only benefit would be if America's current economy wasn't dominated by monopolistic ISPs. Below is an interview with Ajit Pai, showing his perspective.


Scrapping these rules, Pai told Reason's Nick Gillespie, won't harm consumers or the public interest because there was no reason for them in the first place. The rationales were mere "phantoms that were conjured up by people who wanted the FCC for political reasons to overregulate the internet," Pai told Gillespie. "We were not living in a digital dystopia in the years leading up to 2015."

If left in place, however, the Title II rules could harm the commercial internet, which Pai described as "one of the most incredible free market innovations in history."

"Companies like Google and Facebook and Netflix became household names precisely because we didn't have the government micromanaging how the internet would operate," said Pai, who noted that the Clinton-era decision not to regulate the Internet like a phone utility or a broadcast network was one of the most important factors in the rise of our new economy.

Pai also pushed back against claims that he's a right-wing radical who's "fucking things up."

"[I ascribe to] the very radical, right-wing position that the Clinton administration basically got it right when it came to digital infrastructure."


What happens if/when this gets repealed, and what does this mean for you?


The worst part of this, is that there's no definitive answer of what WILL happen, only what CAN happen. What has people concerned, though, is the potential things that larger ISPs can do with this new power, should net neutrality be repealed. Internet service providers could slow access to specific sites, and speed up others, in theory, others specifically being sites who pay ISPs for faster access, and those partnered or in contracts with ISPs. Websites like Google, Amazon, Reddit, Etsy, Netflix, and many more have all broadcast their support of net neutrality, stating that without these rules in place thanks to net neutrality, internet providers would become gatekeepers to the internet, restricting what customers can see. Without definitive government restrictions, these companies could be free to split access to the internet into packages, like cable TV, indeed making true on the intention of lowering the cost of internet access, but also making it more difficult and expensive to see all of the internet, as you can right now.

Likely, what will happen, though everything is up in the air, is that certain ISPs will utilize what's called "fast lanes" and "zero rating". Fast lanes are sort of like what we talked about at the start, with Netflix and Comcast. Currently, these fast lanes and zero rating are used with mobile phone data. AT&T customers can watch DirecTV (owned by AT&T) via their mobile data, without it counting towards their monthly cap. These rules could be applied to home internet as well; if you're a Comcast user, and you want to watch Hulu (owned by NBC-Universal-Comcast), maybe your connection to Hulu will be lightning fast, thanks to these theoretical fast lanes, and they won't go towards your Comcast monthly 1 Terabyte home cap. But what if you want to watch Netflix? Either Netflix will have much lower picture quality, or take a longer time to connect to. And if Netflix pays a fee, or gets into a contract once again with Comcast, then that potentially means that Netflix's increased costs move down to the consumer, who also now has to pay more for a service as well.

What can we do?


The only thing left to do is let your voice be heard. Social media has exploded without people decrying the impending repeal of net neutrality, and the negatives that it would entail, to the point of where the majority of Reddit has been plastered with net neutrality posts.

zZOxMA2.png

The FCC will take the repeal to a vote on December 14, 2017. It is highly predicted that the repeal will pass, and net neutrality will come to an end. Millions have taken to the site "battleforthenet" and "callmycongress" to contact their local representatives and congressmen in order to show that American citizens don't want net neutrality destroyed.

You can learn more at the links below. Hopefully this is helpful in describing what net neutrality is, and why it shouldn't be taken away.

:arrow:Techcrunch: These are the arguments against net neutrality and why they're wrong

:arrow: Extra Credits: What a closed internet means

:arrow:Phillip DeFranco: The Internet is under attack

:arrow:Save the internet: What you need to know


:arrow:Ars Technica: RIP net neutrality
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
82
XP
832
Country
United States
So it's better to be complacent?



Government officials still deem modifying consoles as "illegal", or at least grey, as modding/hacking systems can circumvent copyright protection. They have ways of screwing us over.
You sure about that one? Even accessing the internet could be illegal since you could use it to pirate games. Just because piracy is quite common -- both in practice and association -- with hacking/modding does not mean that's all people use it for -- I use CFW on my PS3 to play games I own physically without my broken BD drive. I use my softmodded Xbox to play ports of games I legally own on PC, like Quakes 1-3, Doom, Halo, and so on. I also own Halo for Xbox so it's doubly legal. Checkmate, government weenies!

But no I seriously doubt modifying a console is illegal just because it *might* lead to something. Surely by then we'd have outlawed all guns since they *might* lead to murder. Or knives. Or cars. Or handbags. Or keys. Or microwaves. Or light bulbs. Or the mug on my desk. Or toenail clippers. You get the idea by now.

Also, being complacent with negative change when you know it's bad, is obviously bad.
Being complacent when you have no valid reason to think something is bad other than people who have no valid reason say to be outraged is good.

Why on earth do people demonize complacency and levelheadedness in these scenarios and why is it ALWAYS the people who don't read the proposal?
 
Last edited by MaverickWellington,
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

the_randomizer

The Temp's official fox whisperer
Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
31,284
Trophies
2
Age
38
Location
Dr. Wahwee's castle
XP
18,969
Country
United States
You sure about that one? Even accessing the internet could be illegal since you could use it to pirate games. Just because piracy is quite common -- both in practice and association -- with hacking/modding does not mean that's all people use it for -- I use CFW on my PS3 to play games I own physically without my broken BD drive. I use my softmodded Xbox to play ports of games I legally own on PC, like Quakes 1-3, Doom, Halo, and so on. I also own Halo for Xbox so it's doubly legal. Checkmate, government weenies!

But no I seriously doubt modifying a console is illegal just because it *might* lead to something. Surely by then we'd have outlawed all guns since they *might* lead to murder. Or knives. Or cars. Or handbags. Or keys. Or microwaves. Or light bulbs. Or the mug on my desk. Or toenail clippers. You get the idea by now.

Also, being complacent with negative change when you know it's bad, is obviously bad.
Being complacent when you have no valid reason to think something is bad other than people who have no valid reason say to be outraged is good.

Why on earth do people demonize complacency and levelheadedness in these scenarios and why is it ALWAYS the people who don't read the proposal?

Why are there two different perspectives on the repeal of net neutrality when there's no definitive way to resolve political difference of opinion? Who's right? Who's wrong? Republicans, or Democrats?
 

TinchoX

Azure Flame Kite
Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
627
Trophies
0
Age
35
XP
492
Country
Argentina
This is why I hate politics... Where I live we are to the neck with this kind of shit, they always find a way to screw people over just to fill their pockets and give 0 effs about people... It's getting boring already...
 
Last edited by TinchoX,
  • Like
Reactions: Aletron9000
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
82
XP
832
Country
United States
It's why I hated this election with the world's most burning passion. Everyone -- even their supporters -- had ridiculous notions of what their candidate was and what their opponents were and it just turned into a huge shitshow. It's why I'm so hard about misinformation and disingenuous people.
 

SG854

Hail Mary
Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2017
Messages
5,215
Trophies
1
Location
N/A
XP
8,104
Country
Congo, Republic of the
It's why I hated this election with the world's most burning passion. Everyone -- even their supporters -- had ridiculous notions of what their candidate was and what their opponents were and it just turned into a huge shitshow. It's why I'm so hard about misinformation and disingenuous people.
Can you really blame people for misinformation. Shuffling through all the non sense is hard as is. It takes a lot of research to see whats true and not.
 

nl255

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
2,999
Trophies
2
XP
2,786
Country
You really believe ALL ISPs would consider that route? You run a massive risk.

There are lots of places in the US where you only have two ISPs, your cable company or your telephone company and quite a few where you only have one broadband ISP. Not really that big of a risk, what are you going to do go back to dialup? Satellite is even worse than dialup in many cases (1.5-2 second ping times) and mobile isn't suitable for anything more than very light usage. Or do you really think most people will be willing to pick up everything and move to another city/state just because their ISP starts requiring you to purchase extra packages/bundles to enable specific sites to load faster than say, 64k?

Well try harder

On topic though, I don't think you guys should worry too much. If this bill is as awful as everyone says it's going to be, they're just gonna go back to the Title II Order, either through force (lawsuits) or will (paragraph 176 of https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-347927A1.pdf). Seriously guys, I don't think we need to be so worried or terrified.

In that case why are they spending so much time and money to change things if they aren't planning on taking advantage of said changes? Do you really think they spent all those millions of dollars fighting to get rid of the NN order just to have everything stay the same? And remember, a promise by any large corporation isn't even worth the paper it is not printed on (also, estoppel is a shield not a sword).
 
  • Like
Reactions: cracker

Kioku

猫。子猫です!
Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
12,003
Trophies
3
Location
In the Murderbox!
Website
www.twitch.tv
XP
16,127
Country
United States
So it's better to be complacent?



Government officials still deem modifying consoles as "illegal", or at least grey, as modding/hacking systems can circumvent copyright protection. They have ways of screwing us over.
You say complacent, I say cautious. You're being too paranoid about something you know little about. The outcome is a mystery, no matter what side you're on.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Can you really blame people for misinformation. Shuffling through all the non sense is hard as is. It takes a lot of research to see whats true and not.
That's a continuing issue. So many "sources" to build up knowledge, but it's inconsistent and inconvenient.. You don't really know who to trust. "Fake news" is a real thing...
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

SG854

Hail Mary
Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2017
Messages
5,215
Trophies
1
Location
N/A
XP
8,104
Country
Congo, Republic of the
You say complacent, I say cautious. You're being too paranoid about something you know little about. The outcome is a mystery, no matter what side you're on.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


That's a continuing issue. So many "sources" to build up knowledge, but it's inconsistent and inconvenient.. You don't really know who to trust. "Fake news" is a real thing...
Yes, Im well aware of that. Everyone knows "Fake News" is a thing. As someone who does heavy research on topics that interest me, like for example on gender issues, it can take hours, and days just to be decently informed on any topic. Months to be really knowledgable. Shuffling through whats not true or to see points of views not yet seen, hearing both sides of the argument, just to get any truth. Its really frustrating. I don't believe things right away which is why I research heavily.
 

Kioku

猫。子猫です!
Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
12,003
Trophies
3
Location
In the Murderbox!
Website
www.twitch.tv
XP
16,127
Country
United States
Yes, Im well aware of that. Everyone knows "Fake News" is a thing. As someone who does heavy research on topics that interest me, like for example on gender issues, it can take hours, and days just to be decently informed on any topic. Months to be really knowledgable. Shuffling through whats not true or to see points of views not yet seen, hearing both sides of the argument, just to get any truth. Its really frustrating. I don't believe things right away which is why I research heavily.
It's kind of why I'm staying out of the whole NN debate.. Just chiming in when people are irrational.. Cuz that helps.. /s

I'm in the same boat, though. Research takes a long time before one can form a rational and unbiased opinion. Oo
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
82
XP
832
Country
United States
In that case why are they spending so much time and money to change things if they aren't planning on taking advantage of said changes? Do you really think they spent all those millions of dollars fighting to get rid of the NN order just to have everything stay the same? And remember, a promise by any large corporation isn't even worth the paper it is not printed on (also, estoppel is a shield not a sword).
I mean AT&T isn't exactly fond of the proposal either, they're spending lots of money to get their way and the FCC is actively telling them to fuck off and that their suggestions to make it so we never can go back to Title II Order have been called "extraordinary" and "prophylactic forbearance" by the FCC in their proposal, in Paragraph 176.

I don't know about you but while it's clear some like AT&T want more room to be dickwarblers, the FCC ain't giving it to em. Not only that but if the rules are shown to have too many loopholes, we can just go back, like I said. I'm willing to give the new rules a shot. All the stories of throttling and underhanded bullshit should make people wanna try something new, but the moment something new comes in, suddenly everyone flips shit because lol peer pressure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

Xzi

Time to fly, 621
Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
17,736
Trophies
3
Location
The Lands Between
Website
gbatemp.net
XP
8,528
Country
United States
You keep arguing that the bill is not beneficial, so I'd like to see some evidence to support this. I'd like some actual citations from the bill.
You're acting like this bill is the word of god and not just some corporate douchenozzles trying to trick people into giving up their rights. Who gives a fuck what the bill says. I've said this several times: it's all a bunch of nice language masking the only real beneficiaries, near-monopolistic providers. There's no benefit to any individual in repealing Net Neutrality.
 

KingVamp

Haaah-hahahaha!
Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
13,485
Trophies
2
Location
Netherworld
XP
7,919
Country
United States
Was going say something earlier before this thread blowup, but didn't have a chance to and I'm not reading 34 pages, so...

This is a shame. He shouldn't even be allowed to do this, let alone get this far.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4

dreary79

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
195
Trophies
1
Location
Idaho USA
Website
Visit site
XP
332
Country
United States
Net Neutrality = Government has more power over the internet. Sorry, I'm for letting Net Neutrality die. I wonder how many supporters have even downloaded the 400 page Net Neutrality rules. It's 400 pages of outdated nonsense. Again, it's 400 pages. 400 pages of the US Government controlling the internet. Keep the government out of the internet, keep it free.
 

TotalInsanity4

GBAtemp Supreme Overlord
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,800
Trophies
0
Location
Under a rock
XP
9,814
Country
United States
Net Neutrality = Government has more power over the internet. Sorry, I'm for letting Net Neutrality die. I wonder how many supporters have even downloaded the 400 page Net Neutrality rules. It's 400 pages of outdated nonsense. Again, it's 400 pages. 400 pages of the US Government controlling the internet. Keep the government out of the internet, keep it free.
The government does not control the internet, it regulates what ISPs can and cannot do when delivering the internet to you
 

SG854

Hail Mary
Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2017
Messages
5,215
Trophies
1
Location
N/A
XP
8,104
Country
Congo, Republic of the
It's kind of why I'm staying out of the whole NN debate.. Just chiming in when people are irrational.. Cuz that helps.. /s

I'm in the same boat, though. Research takes a long time before one can form a rational and unbiased opinion. Oo
I want to be in this Net Neutrality debate because I like debating. But I don't know much about it. So its best I stay out of it.
Only to chime in to try to learn some things. Or to point out things that don't make sense to me at the moment.

Off Topic
but related to how frustrating researching is and how the media hides things from you.

I go deep into topics biological, psychological, environmental, historical. I want to be as informed as a can.
Im extremely knowledgable when it comes to gender related issues. Just to show you and give an example how frustrating this is, head on over to my profile page. I actually linked to a bunch of articles about ME. Its a perfect example why you need to see things from both sides and not just one. Some of which are shocking to people. One of the articles talks about how one of the mainstream sites just flat out lies. Its extremely frustrating not getting a straight answer.

Even India the so called extremely sexist place on Earth, has things the media is not telling you. 498A of the India Penal code, which is an anti dowry law, has been misused by many women. A law that not only affects the man but also the family. Many men have committed suicide in India because of discriminatory laws against them. Suicide rates for married men are twice as high than for married women. There is a suicide video of a man in India crying on camera because his wife prevented him from seeing his kids and talks about how 498A ruined him. Here is a really good video on the India Penal code discrimination. Its extremely shocking when people first hear about this. Even @HaloEliteLegend said a few months back that if you want to see real sexism against women then go to my home country. Even in India there is discrimination against males just like there is for females.

You hear men from India in the comments sections begging and crying for help because of misuse of this law against them. The Supreme Court even had to get involved to try to prevent misuse.

This is exactly why I don't believe everything in the media, and their one sided things. This is why i'm not taking sides on Net Neutrality yet. I need more information and research. There is just a lot of crap that they don't tell you or purposely hide from you. (Especially when it comes to wording.) And India is the best example of that.
 
Last edited by SG854,

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2: https://youtu.be/MddR6PTmGKg?si=mU2EO5hoE7XXSbSr