Why are English Voice Dubs complete crap compared to Japanese dubs?

Sonic Angel Knight · Aug 8, 2016

the_randomizer said:
4Kids ruined English dubbing for me as a whole, they unnecessarily censor things that don't need to be changes, like cultural references (like Yen for Dollars, rice balls for donuts, etc), and blur out signs that don't need blurring out, etc.

That being said, as one who actually legitimately lived in Japan for part of my life and learned the language, I detest pretty much all English dubs.

That isn't censor ship, it is a cultural difference, is called Localization. There is a difference between censorship and localization.

Localize = To adapt to ones taste by adding common references viewers can relate to.
Censor = Cut and remove content that could be consider offensive or contraversial to viewers.

Most shows done by 4kids are like that, They even change the name of characters to make them easy and memorable. Is for kids. Is nothing against someone. Is a creative choice to appeal to people to watch it. Yes is true that it shouldn't need any alterations like that for people to wanna watch their stuff cause if you watch Japanese media, you expect japanese things and culture, least a way to learn about their country but if they didn't try to make it appeal to the audience they are targetting, then who would think to watch it if there isn''t anything they like seeing within it?

Deleted User · Aug 8, 2016

Sonic Angel Knight said:
That isn't censor ship, it is a cultural difference, is called Localization. There is a difference between censorship and localization.

Localize = To adapt to ones taste by adding common references viewers can relate to.
Censor = Cut and remove content that could be consider offensive to viewers.

Most shows done by 4kids are like that, They even change the name of characters to make them easy and memorable. Is for kids. Is nothing against someone. Is a creative choice to appeal to people to watch it. Yes is true that it shouldn't need any alterations like that for people to wanna watch their stuff cause if you watch Japanese media, you expect japanese things and culture, least a way to learn about their country but if they didn't try to make it appeal to the audience they are targetting, then who would think to watch it if there isn''t anything they like seeing within it?

I remember my sister was watching Pokemon Indigo League, and as soon as she saw riceballs, or "donuts" in an episode, she paused and walked towards the TV to try and figure out what the heck those "donuts" were, and IIRC it was before anyone called them "donuts", so she wasn't confused because they didn't look like donuts, she was confused because she didn't know what the fuck they were.

Sonic Angel Knight · Aug 8, 2016

Tomato Hentai said:
I remember my sister was watching Pokemon Indigo League, and as soon as she saw riceballs, or "donuts" in an episode, she paused and walked towards the TV to try and figure out what the heck those "donuts" were, and IIRC it was before anyone called them "donuts", so she wasn't confused because they didn't look like donuts, she was confused because she didn't know what the fuck they were.

Well that is funny, no offense. That is localization. Usually that happens in most kids shows. Censorship will try and remove any offensive and contraversial content (Like jinx skin being recolored purple from being black) that is censorship.

Deleted User · Aug 8, 2016

Sonic Angel Knight said:
Well that is funny, no offense. That is localization. Usually that happens in most kids shows. Censorship will try and remove any offensive and contraversial content (Like jinx skin being recolored purple from being black) that is censorship.

No, I found it funny too. And I was using it to show why localization may be a good thing, if 4Kids had been able to change those riceballs to look like donuts then that wouldn't have happened, and I'm sure there were other kids out there who were confused as to what those riceballs actually were too.

earlynovfan · Aug 8, 2016

Sonic Angel Knight said:
Well that is funny, no offense. That is localization. Usually that happens in most kids shows. Censorship will try and remove any offensive and contraversial content (Like jinx skin being recolored purple from being black) that is censorship.

I remember in High School I borrowed a few DVD's and VHS tapes of DragonBall Z from a friend and it has a lot of awkward censorship.

I definitely understand the need to censor nudity (especially child goku) but the way they did it was really not clean. Adding bizarre cut out rocks and shit like that.

Sonic Angel Knight · Aug 8, 2016

Tomato Hentai said:
No, I found it funny too. And I was using it to show why localization may be a good thing, if 4Kids had been able to change those riceballs to look like donuts then that wouldn't have happened, and I'm sure there were other kids out there who were confused as to what those riceballs actually were too.

Well i doubt any american at the time would eat or make something like this for dinner or meal or any treat. But we know what they are now, just some didn't know back then.

Every american kid knew what doughnuts were but not riceballs.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

earlynovfan said:
I remember in High School I borrowed a few DVD's and VHS tapes of DragonBall Z from a friend and it has a lot of awkward censorship.

I definitely understand the need to censor nudity (especially child goku) but the way they did it was really not clean. Adding bizarre cut out rocks and shit like that.

Well they did censor it, In fact there was a censored dub and uncensored dub. The censored one was on tv Toonami with cut and removed stuff as well as other things. But the uncensored one was only able to be purchased on vhs and DVD at the time. More detailed explain as to why situations have happend like that. Of course if your rushing to get things out to tv shows that is viewed weekly then you are bound to expect slip ups and mistakes as well. No one is perfect, had they been given enough time to finalize and work to present clearity then it would been fine.

DaFixer · Aug 8, 2016

ertre said:
Pretty much the exact same story for me, to the point where I even use English subs for shows already in English.

Yes when I was a kid I watch Spiderman,X-Men,Animaniacs,Transfomers,ThunderCats in English on Telekids on RTL4.
Only I like Alfred Jodocus Kwak in Dutch, becase the script/songs/voices was made by a Dutch men (Herman van Veen).

Most off my English I know form movies/games,not from my shitty school....

the_randomizer · Aug 8, 2016

Sonic Angel Knight said:
That isn't censor ship, it is a cultural difference, is called Localization. There is a difference between censorship and localization.

Localize = To adapt to ones taste by adding common references viewers can relate to.
Censor = Cut and remove content that could be consider offensive to viewers.

Most shows done by 4kids are like that, They even change the name of characters to make them easy and memorable. Is for kids. Is nothing against someone. Is a creative choice to appeal to people to watch it. Yes is true that it shouldn't need any alterations like that for people to wanna watch their stuff cause if you watch Japanese media, you expect japanese things and culture, least a way to learn about their country but if they didn't try to make it appeal to the audience they are targetting, then who would think to watch it if there isn''t anything they like seeing within it?

They should have at least called onigiri, "rice balls" and not "jelly donuts", no kid is that stupid to not know what a jelly donut is. I think. That and weapons, yes, YuGiOh had guns, but in the 4Kids dub, the bad guys are just holding invisible guns lol, stuff like that was unnecessary. Top that off with the horrible voice acting, 4Kids is absolute garbage, no wonder they filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Cultural changes are fine, but not to extreme levels.

Sonic Angel Knight · Aug 8, 2016

the_randomizer said:
They should have at least called onigiri rice balls and not jelly donuts, no kid is that stupid to not know what a jelly donut is. That and weapons, yes, YuGiOh had guns, but in the 4Kids dub, the bad guys are just holding invisible guns, stuff like that was unnecessary. Top that off with the horrible voice acting, 4Kids is absolute garbage, no wonder they filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Unessary yes, but funny. But that how they do it. Is no doubt 4 kids does a crappy job in censorship, but is not easy to be consistent especailly if your realeasing the shows on weekly basis with less time for proof reading checks and making things fit into better situations. They had little to work with and it looked silly on their behalf. To be honest as adults is hard to determine what kind of content to remove and cut from a show to still make it clear what is going on.

Maybe they were thinking Finger guns were what kids were into. So finger guns is what they went with?

To be honest i think everyone should stick to watching shows with a TV-14 or higher rating (Depend on country rating system comparisons) and also avoid watching it on tv or some video streaming sites. Just buy the DVD or bluray format or digital since most of those kinds of shows are not heavily censored, supports dual audio, (official subtitles)

Most of the reasons why anime is that way was cause they were aring it on tv, and they usually censor a lot of stuff even in MA rating. Is why you see people sell movies and dvds with (UNCUT AND UNRATED) Label to reflect that "Yes there was cut content of this media and now you can watch all of it" Is just a matter of public serive media. Owning videos there is no need for any cuts since is in the hands of the consumer and not going through public display like tv shows.

Anime on tv has been having lots of trouble maintaining broadcasting rights due to some contravertial reasons and now most people are required to just buy DVD or subscribe to on demand services like Hulu, netfilx, Amazon, Or the publisher websites (Funimation, Vizmedia) To be able to watch them. Toonami shared with adult swim program scheduel and cartoon network survived a long time over the past 20 years but as far as that goes, is the only service on network tv with anime for mature audience, while Nicktoons and Disney XD has only kids anime.

Deleted User · Aug 8, 2016

the_randomizer said:
They should have at least called onigiri, "rice balls" and not "jelly donuts", no kid is that stupid to not know what a jelly donut is. I think. That and weapons, yes, YuGiOh had guns, but in the 4Kids dub, the bad guys are just holding invisible guns lol, stuff like that was unnecessary. Top that off with the horrible voice acting, 4Kids is absolute garbage, no wonder they filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Cultural changes are fine, but not to extreme levels.

Oh, I didn't know they filed for bankruptcy. Now I know why the 4Kids channel doesn't exist at all anymore lol

the_randomizer · Aug 8, 2016

Tomato Hentai said:
Oh, I didn't know they filed for bankruptcy. Now I know why the 4Kids channel doesn't exist at all anymore lol

Yup, they went under a few years back, I'd rather deal with Funimation's dubs lol. At least that company retains the original soundtrack to the anime where 4Kids has to change it.

LittleFlame · Aug 8, 2016

the_randomizer said:
Yup, they went under a few years back, I'd rather deal with Funimation's dubs lol. At least that company retains the original soundtrack to the anime where 4Kids has to change it.

Funimation is pretty great for dubs

the_randomizer · Aug 8, 2016

LittleFlame said:
Funimation is pretty great for dubs

They are, but given that I lived in Japan and studied the language actively for five years, I honestly find the Japanese audio to be less painful for my ears

Chary · Aug 11, 2016

It can really differ based on the licensing company behind it. Funimation has quality dubs like Ouran HSHC, Fullmetal Alchemist, Fate/Zero, and Psycho Pass. Their Steins;Gate dub was also good...in terms of performance, but the script absolutely botched it in the switch from Japanese to English, making it completely inferior. You also have groups like Sentai or Aniplex that usually dub things with a low budget...such as Sword Art Online or Fate/Stay Night...which can range from moderate at best, to unwatchable. 4KIDS of course, dubs shows meant for a younger audience, so they tend to censor things that don't fit American culture as to not confuse the viewers. It makes sense on paper, but comes off terribly in practice.

Deleted User · Aug 11, 2016

FAST6191 said:
Several would feel that way, Various reasons
5) You are a filthy weab. It is an unfortunate affliction, you can often cure it by going to Japan and seeing that it is not all sunshine and rainbows (best not to go during the sunshine and rainbows festival) or you can finish going through puberty instead.

Took somebody long enough to say this. New quote to add to my sig.

Also, I really don't see a problem with english dubs. I can watch the dub of JJBA part 1 and see nothing wrong with it. But I am not a anime fanatic so...

FAST6191 · Aug 11, 2016

VinLark said:
Took somebody long enough to say this.

11 minutes from the OP posting?

Are you one of the people that joins IRC, says hello and then leaves 15 seconds later citing it being inactive?

anhminh · Aug 11, 2016

Well, I think Japaneses voice actress has higher voice than NA voice actress so they usually sound cuter, plus Japanese fit with that high pitch voice more than English did.

But for deep voice female character and male character, NA voice actor is really good and most of the time better.

So if Japanese dub are cute then English dub are cool af. I pretty sure Japanese think English sound cool too, that why when we see something cool in Anime/Manga it usually write in English, like Evangelion or Saber.

Sonic Angel Knight · Aug 11, 2016

Chary said:
It can really differ based on the licensing company behind it. Funimation has quality dubs like Ouran HSHC, Fullmetal Alchemist, Fate/Zero, and Psycho Pass. Their Steins;Gate dub was also good...in terms of performance, but the script absolutely botched it in the switch from Japanese to English, making it completely inferior. You also have groups like Sentai or Aniplex that usually dub things with a low budget...such as Sword Art Online or Fate/Stay Night...which can range from moderate at best, to unwatchable. 4KIDS of course, dubs shows meant for a younger audience, so they tend to censor things that don't fit American culture as to not confuse the viewers. It makes sense on paper, but comes off terribly in practice.

Yeah, the 4Kids people do bad job. probably budget isues as well as time limits for episodes to spend on. Also Localization and censorship is different. Eventhough they often cross over to the same territory.

Localization like changing names from japanese to something more common in english (Example Yu-Gi-oh) Are often done for younger audience, like kids, is easier names to remember and for undeveloped mind. Adding american food and snacks instead of Stuff like sushi, riceballs, takoyuki and other japanese related things, are localization.

Censorship is like the Fire emblem Fates petting feature (Seen as sex related) Changing jinx from black to purple (seen as racist), and removing any contraversial scenes like beach, bikini, obsessive discussion of breast, touching fondling, Removing breast physics (Sexual content) Even stuff like removing nipples from characters, the detailed features of things (curves leading front and rear end or cleavage), Cuting content that could seem offensive. Most kids anime are censored, and some.

Most funimation published content is uncensored if you buy the on demand DVD VHS OR BLU-RAY whatever, Or visit their website, and i think also on netflix (not hulu) So if you want to watch it close to uncut as possible, buying the on demand DVD type is best option, cause on tv it will always be censored, dispite aring on "ADULT SWIM" AFTER 12 AM Which is very dumb to me.

vayanui8 · Aug 11, 2016

There are a number of reasons dubs tend to be inferior, though not all of them are bad.
In many cases they simply use shitty actors because they have a small budget. This is the issue with alot of dubs, especially older ones.

Another issue with alot of dubs is censorship. This effected alot of shows aimed at children and 4Kids is an infamous example. While I can understand toning things down for kids, it was often done very poorly and just made the scenes harder to understand as a whole. It also didn't help that they would take shows like One Piece and completely change them in an attempt to advertise them to a younger audience than intended.

Another Company that I feel deserves mention is Funimation, as their dubs are good in some areas but terrible in others. They actually tend to put together a solid cast for most of their dubs, but they have no variety. When they use the same small pool of actors for every dubs, it starts to become a big issue and prevents new talent from joining in. They also have a tendency to be overly liberal with the script and make unnecessary changes. A notable example is the GamerGate reference in their prison school dub, which aggravated alot of people and was completely out of place. These kind of intrusive script changes are unwelcome and can ruin an otherwise solid dub.

Some character archetypes translate very poorly to English as well, which is why so many dubs end up with young female characters having obnoxiously squeaky voices.

That said, with all of these examples of bad dubs, what can make a good dub? Good dubs are unfortunately pretty rare these days, but they do happen. One of my favorite game dubs of the past few years was The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel. The game had a great cast, and they weren't the typical overused English VAs. In fact, the main character, Rean, was voiced by a fairly new actor who doesn't have alot of experience, but he fit the role very well. We need more dubs that take the time to scout new talent. On top of this, the game also had a fantastic translation and the script was well adapted to English while staying faithful to the original Japanese. This is the biggest issue with all forms of translations these days. We either end up with something that is translated so literally that things aren't conveyed properly, or we end up with something that no longer resembles the original Japanese script.

Localization is a very complicated process that has been a big issue with alot of games these days. Fortunately, alot of companies seem to be getting a better idea of how to produce a good localization with a good dub, but some will continue to fuck up and may never learn unfortunately.

KazoWAR · Aug 11, 2016

i think it really depends on what your used to. What you see(hear) first is usually what you like better. pretty much every show i saw as a kid dubbed and cant watch it any other way. for example DBZ I like the original dub, the Japanese i dont like and also the redub for kai, i don't like it either.

Why are English Voice Dubs complete crap compared to Japanese dubs?

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