Do You Believe In God?

Do You Believe In God?

  • Yes

    Votes: 159 32.8%
  • No

    Votes: 267 55.1%
  • Unsure/ Used To

    Votes: 59 12.2%

  • Total voters
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osaka35

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What I means is that life does not need to be based on organic compounds, molecules or even atoms, like the organism we know of and a part of.
That's fair, though you run into the risk of having a tautological argument. It's difficult enough to define what life is with what we know, much less what we don't know.
 
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smf

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How am I hurting other people just for believing and how is believing in religion selfish?

I don't have anything against muslims as individuals, however the Quaran does say that muslims are better than non-muslims. Therefore if you say you are muslim then I would expect you to believe that to some level.

After the attacks on Charlie Hebdo there were plenty of Muslims who were vocal at how angry they were for the drawings. They didn't go as far as saying they condoned the murders, they weren't very condemning of them either.

On the other hand there are also plenty of Muslims who are angry at non-muslims attempts to kill murderers in Syria.

Kill French non-muslim satirists for drawing=ok
Kill Muslims for murder=bad and convinced more people to turn into ISIS murderers.

This isn't the view of minority terrorists, these are liberal muslims that some of whom I know personally. When you're sharing a meal with a muslim who has lived in your country for 40 years who is upset that our forces aren't labelled as terrorists then you know there is something up.

Yes, its just scientifically impossible for the universe to have come from nothing, and life cannot emerge from an empty void according to science.
So, god must exist by deductive logic.

No, you've picked up a few logical fallacies in there.

Science has no explanation for how a universe is created, so to say it's scientifically impossible is a lie.

Essentially you've used god to solve a problem you don't understand but now you have two problems.
The universe is everything, including god. He might have made what we know about, but by your on argument he didn't make himself.

pushing the idea that if you believe in something, you're automatically simple-minded and easy to manipulate,

Followers of religion are self selecting, so they do have certain traits. There are plenty of people who say they believe in a religion because there is a payoff, while they don't actually believe it though.

Atheism doesn't make anyone smarter or more clever than a religious person - there's no shortage of atheist idiots and history shows that atheist ideologies have as much of a potential for hate and destruction as religious ones.

He has a pre-conception of what religion is and doesn't take into account the function religion plays in people's lives. "Being religious or not" and "Not being an asshole" are mutually exclusive.

Not a pre-conception, I have a lot of experience. I agree that being an asshole is mutually exclusive. The problem with most relgions is they teach you to look down on non believers.

Just when ISIS started to threaten the royal family, the anti-ISIS mentality started growing. Coincidence? I think not (I always wanted to say that lol). People here were raised with the "my country is better than yours" mentality. And how do they support that claim? By claiming that this country is the most religious and holy place out there.

And you don't think this supports my viewpoint? People supported ISIS when it was beheading foreign non muslim aid workers and journalists, but not when they threatened your royal family. How much would people have tolerated if ISIS had thought your royal family was muslimy enough

Even as a Christian I find the idea that Islam is to blame for terrorism repulsive.

Every country and religion has been involved with fighting over the years. However Islam was born in violence and because it's engrained in the quran then it's very difficult to eradicate it. So you might find the idea repulsive, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Everything in life can be broken down to deductive logic, once all the impossible is removed, the only answer left is the right answer. No answer can explain the creation of life, thus the only answer left is a superior being of some sort.

We don't have any idea on what is impossible when it comes to how the universe was created. So you're just guessing.

Your logic proved that god isn't required, because if god exists then something created him. If it's possible for god to come into existence without a creator then it's possible for a universe as well.

Only a fool can believe that the vastness of the universe and the life that resides within such a universe came from nothing.

I could say that only a fool can believe they came from god, but it's not a good argument.

what is the catalyst?

The big bang. When science has more answers about what happened before the big bang then you can use science as an argument about god, until then your arguments are only going to be effective on people who already believe.
 
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Yil

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To be fair, the Christian Bible says basically the same thing
To be fair, lots of people in other religions (multiple gods, simply magical training and ascending, worshipping nature, etc.) are curious why Judaism, Catholics, Christians and even Muslim are fighting each other at all. Should they not be fighting other religions and specifically the church of Satan (for the sake of everyone Satanist should extinct. They have been enemies of old religions, and is directly responsible for their fall and still give people confusion, not to mention Satanists really worship the devil)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Practically all religions say that to some extent. Why? Perhaps it is they feel this quasi superiority will gain them power and followers.
I must say that Christian greatly amplify human ego despite pride being the original sin, to the level that one feel no guilt hurting others and nature. I highly doubt Christianity would be well spread if it does not put human and specifically man above all else.
 

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Practically all religions say that to some extent. Why? Perhaps it is they feel this quasi superiority will gain them power and followers.

Everything about religion is to kill off all other religions. Whether they do it with violence or by other measures is irrelevant.

Islamic banking is purely to starve jewish money lenders.
Catholics ban contraception to increase the catholic to non-Catholic ratio (where there are not enough resources to sustain the population then they hope that the catholics will survive and the non-catholics will die but they can't be sure).

To be fair, the Christian Bible says basically the same thing

Where? New testament is mostly peace and pacifism. Old testament is another matter, but that is more Jewish than Christian.

To be fair, lots of people in other religions (multiple gods, simply magical training and ascending, worshipping nature, etc.) are curious why Judaism, Catholics, Christians and even Muslim are fighting each other at all.

Muhammad didn't like the Jews and Christians so he started a religion, they have been fighting over a worthless piece of land ever since. Christianity is more complex, because Jesus himself was Jewish.

If Muhammad or Jesus were born today and tried to do what they did then he'd be labelled as cult leaders and only a few people would listen to them and they would end up doing prison time for something while the followers would be deprogrammed.
 
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RodrigoDavy

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After the attacks on Charlie Hebdo there were plenty of Muslims who were vocal at how angry they were for the drawings. They didn't go as far as saying they condoned the murders, they weren't very condemning of them either.
I am not saying Muslims were in the right, but imagine this situation.
Try to put yourself on the other's shoes... Imagine you're the average french muslim, you felt very offendend by the Charlie's Hebdo joke. You, of course, didn't wish death to anyone at Charlie Hebdo and was sad that the killing happened. But at the same time, the joke didn't get any less ofensive and the ones that died aren't your favorite people in the world. It was like your high school bully died, of course you want to feel sad for him, but deep down you didn't forget all the bad he made you and can't get yourself to feel as sorry as the others.

Also, you're muslim and everyone looks at you as you had some kind of responsability for the killing. But you didn't kill anyone, you didn't do anything. But because you're muslim everyone expect for you to take responsability, to feel even sorrier for Charlie Hebdo than most people, even to deny your own culture and religion. It wasn't you, but everyone looks at you as you're also somehow guilty.

I once read at "The Diary of Anne Frank" this saying: "A christian man must respond only for his own actions. Every jew must respond for the action of a single jew" I think if we exchange "jew" for "muslim" this saying hold up just as well.
 
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TotalInsanity4

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Where? New testament is mostly peace and pacifism. Old testament is another matter, but that is more Jewish than Christian.
I didn't say that wasn't the case. What I did say was that Christians are taught to believe through the Bible that our religion is the one true religion and that every other one is wrong
 

smf

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What I did say was that Christians are taught to believe through the Bible that our religion is the one true religion and that every other one is wrong

All religions do that, because it's the only way to convince people to join.

Would you become Christian if they said "you know what? we could be wrong about this and the Muslims might be right".

Try to put yourself on the other's shoes... Imagine you're the average french muslim, you felt very offendend by the Charlie's Hebdo joke. You, of course, didn't wish death to anyone at Charlie Hebdo and was sad that the killing happened. But at the same time, the joke didn't get any less ofensive and the ones that died aren't your favorite people in the world. It was like your high school bully died, of course you want to feel sad for him, but deep down you didn't forget all the bad he made you and can't get yourself to feel as sorry as the others.

I did put myself in their situation and yes I can see how they would be offended. However this is where it ends. If you are so immature that you think that being offended, however much, makes it permissible to even hurt someone then you need to grow up. Those offended Muslims don't care how their actions offend non-muslims at all, they are behaving with a sense of superiority. Mostly because they are surrounded by other Muslims cheering on ISIS because they are all so superior. Now if you are a Muslim and you haven't witnessed this yourself and are offended, then I apologise but ask you to go and be truly honest and try to seek this behaviour out because it is probably happening closer than you think.

Also, you're muslim and everyone looks at you as you had some kind of responsability for the killing. But you didn't kill anyone, you didn't do anything.

If I join the KKK and wear a white pointy hooded onsie but don't kill any black people, then when a black person gets killed then I would expect to be looked at as if I had some responsibility. You have a responsibility for who you associate with.

I once read at "The Diary of Anne Frank" this saying: "A christian man must respond only for his own actions. Every jew must respond for the action of a single jew" I think if we exchange "jew" for "muslim" this saying hold up just as well.

She was talking about how it was unfair that Jews were persecuted, Muslims aren't persecuted at all in comparison.

I think a much more relevant quote is:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

You have a moral duty to speak out.
 
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mrdude

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No, I also don't believe in Santa/Satan/leprechauns/Fairy's or any other non believable figments of peoples imaginations.

Religion is a man made fantasy - invented to control the masses, that's my take on it.

If I was to believe in anything - I'd believe there is a much greater chance that there are aliens and the universe is filled with different forms of life. I also think the big bang is a load of crap.
Matter/Time spontaneously coming into being and the universe expanding into nothing - what a load of crap.
 

TotalInsanity4

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All religions do that, because it's the only way to convince people to join.

Would you become Christian if they said "you know what? we could be wrong about this and the Muslims might be right".
Right. That's what I'm saying. You made it sound as if that was something that only the Muslim religion did.
 

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I also think the big bang is a load of crap.
Matter/Time spontaneously coming into being and the universe expanding into nothing - what a load of crap.

It sounds amazing right? "The big bang" is probably a load of crap, there is a theory that there have been multiple big bangs which is more likely.

If Matter/Time didn't spontaneously come into being at some point in the past (even if it's ten big bangs ago) then where do you think it came from? If you include deity/aliens etc then you need to say how they spontaneously came into existence as well.
 

Foxi4

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I didn't say that wasn't the case. What I did say was that Christians are taught to believe through the Bible that our religion is the one true religion and that every other one is wrong
Meanwhile Democrats think that Democracy is the only correct system of government, Republicans think the same about Republics and Communists about Communism. Subscribing under a certain idea necessarily means that you disagree with or disapprove of the opposite of that idea. This applies to everything from Pro-abortion versus Pro-life to Apple versus PC, it permeates every facet of our lives - if you believe in something, you feel it is correct, aka "better" than other options by definition.
 

grossaffe

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Actually most modern Satanists are pretty respectful. I'm not saying it's not a toxic religion, but it's also not as bad as most people make it out to be
As far as I'm aware, Satanism isn't even a religion. It doesn't involve Satan or any gods. It's a philosophy focused on the self. Individuality, personal gratification, etcetera.
 

smf

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Right. That's what I'm saying. You made it sound as if that was something that only the Muslim religion did.

I hold all religions as ludicrous as each other. Except Pastafarians of course, they are trying too hard to actually be ludicrous (like you can't try to be cool).
 

bannana2

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It sounds amazing right? "The big bang" is probably a load of crap, there is a theory that there have been multiple big bangs which is more likely.

If Matter/Time didn't spontaneously come into being at some point in the past (even if it's ten big bangs ago) then where do you think it came from? If you include deity/aliens etc then you need to say how they spontaneously came into existence as well.

Well, since the current theories hold that we are living inside of a membrane universe of which there are infinite numbers of them, then it didn't just pop into existence. That would be the opposite of what current physicists state and it would be a gross misrepresentation of high science works. Once thought about, time can be either linear or circular and if its circular than it has no beginning and no end.
 

smf

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edit not working, so hopefully someone can auto merge this.

As far as I'm aware, Satanism isn't even a religion. It doesn't involve Satan or any gods. It's a philosophy focused on the self. Individuality, personal gratification, etcetera.

A religion doesn't actually require you to follow a god.
 

Foxi4

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All religions do that, because it's the only way to convince people to join.
Except that's not why they do it, see above.
[qiote]Would you become Christian if they said "you know what? we could be wrong about this and the Muslims might be right".[/quote]See above.
I did put myself in their situation and yes I can see how they would be offended. However this is where it ends. If you are so immature that you think that being offended, however much, makes it permissible to even hurt someone then you need to grow up. Those offended Muslims don't care how their actions offend non-muslims at all, they are behaving with a sense of superiority. Mostly because they are surrounded by other Muslims cheering on ISIS because they are all so superior. Now if you are a Muslim and you haven't witnessed this yourself and are offended, then I apologise but ask you to go and be truly honest and try to seek this behaviour out because it is probably happening closer than you think.
Appeal to Emotion and Leveraging Fear fallacies. You have no evidece and you're painting the canvas in black and white - no shades. With us or against us, friend or foe, despite chatting with muslims *right here*, muslims who *disapprove* of ISIS, directly debunking your hypothesis that "the evil muslims" are everywhere.
If I join the KKK and wear a white pointy hooded onsie but don't kill any black people, then when a black person gets killed then I would expect to be looked at as if I had some responsibility. You have a responsibility for who you associate with.
You definitely are not responsible for the actions of other people, no matter how big of a hyperbole you use. Group responsibility is a totalitarian idea that has no place in contemporary society, if my neighbour kills someone, I'm not an accomplice just because I live in the same building.
She was talking about how it was unfair that Jews were persecuted, Muslims aren't persecuted at all in comparison.
Mosques are getting burned down, people are getting killed in reprisal attacks and the fear of refugees is at an all-time high, and all that is happening in civilized, western countries - they're pretty persecuted. Nobody wants to ban jewish immigration as far as I know.
I think a much more relevant quote is:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

You have a moral duty to speak out
Good quote that I agree with, but I'm not sure I like the context it's being used in. Your whole argument is giving me strong 1984 vibes.
As far as I'm aware, Satanism isn't even a religion. It doesn't involve Satan or any gods. It's a philosophy focused on the self. Individuality, personal gratification, etcetera.
It's a mock-religion - they say they've picked Satan as a role model because he was "truly free", but we all know the reason was more immature than that - they just wanted to piss off Christians. "Look at us, we're more than Atheists - we're SATANISTS!" - real mature.
 
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