GameStop refuses to sell Consoles bundled with Digital Games

sandytf · Sep 17, 2015

As a collector, the ability to transfer games between consoles is very important to me. At some point, any given locked digital release will become unavailable. If consoles were indestructible, then this would be less of a problem, but unfortunately, consoles only have a limited lifespan. Additionally, there will be no way to buy or aquire a game once the publisher removes it from their store or servers.

Foxi4 · Sep 17, 2015

Vanth88 said:
Why physical? I just bought the PS4 Destiny bundle and in case you're wondering how is it? I wouldn't know. It took an entire day to download the game and it's still downloading an update after launching the game. You wanna know why physical? because unless the company (in my case Sony) can keep up with the depends of an ever-growing digital-only community, then why the hell would anyone buy digital if they can't even play the game? I also bought Last of Us (digital) and it's still downloading.

With that being said I own a lot of steam games, and even on launch day for AAA games I've always been able to download from them at full speed (4mb/s for me). So digital-only isn't all bad.. it's just not all companies can handle that right now. Nintendo is also slow as fudge but.. honestly I can only hope they upgrade their servers for NX.

A physical game would download updates anyways. That, and you don't need to download them straight away - you can download them in the backgound as you play. In fact, you don't even need to download the whole game - you can play titles as they download as long as the main binary went through already, and that's usually a small file.

loco365 · Sep 17, 2015

It's both a good idea and a bad idea, honestly. While it means that you'll have a physical copy (Which you can sell when you're done with the game), if the store runs out of that particular title, that means that you will either have to wait or not get that particular physical bundle if the game has to be sold separately.

Foxi4 · Sep 17, 2015

sandytf said:
As a collector, the ability to transfer games between consoles is very important to me. At some point, any given locked digital release will become unavailable. If consoles were indestructible, then this would be less of a problem, but unfortunately, consoles only have a limited lifespan. Additionally, there will be no way to buy or aquire a game once the publisher removes it from their store or servers.

Then make backups of your digital games - it's quite easy, unlike making backups of discs for most "unhacked" consoles. The lifespan of an optical disc is 10-20 years of average use, the lifespan of digital releases is indeninite and only depends on your own backup habits.

osirisjem · Sep 17, 2015

chavosaur said:
As a purveyor of digital games, I find the stance understandable but a little silly. How do you feel about this move? And what is your stance on the timeless Physical vs Digital argument? Should GameStop be scared ?

I think DVD sales are going to be strong and Blockbuster has nothing to fear.
I highly doubt Netflix will be popular.
I think GameStop will be a valid business for many decades to come.

Zeriel · Sep 17, 2015

osirisjem said:
I think DVD sales are going to be strong and Blockbuster has nothing to fear.
I highly doubt Netflix will be popular.
I think GameStop will be a valid business for many decades to come.

Tell me again why I need a console if every game is digital? Why can't Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo release for PC then?
Why the fuck would I pay 500$ just to have a weak ass hardware and a way for companies to physically DRM me?? That's BS

Guinea · Sep 17, 2015

Thats BS... there the SAME thing as consoles without bundled games, just a game included... NO DIFFERENCE!

osirisjem · Sep 17, 2015

Zeriel said:
Why the fuck would I pay 500$ just to have a weak ass hardware

Because that's all you can afford. And your Mommy bought you a Console for Christmas.

Zeriel · Sep 17, 2015

osirisjem said:
Because that's all you can afford. Any Mommy bought you a Console for Christmas.

Wow dude learn to speak English before you try to annoy someone, I feel bad for you, don't they have schools in Canada?

flame1234 · Sep 18, 2015

Foxi4 said:
A physical game would download updates anyways. That, and you don't need to download them straight away - you can download them in the background as you play. In fact, you don't even need to download the whole game - you can play titles as they download as long as the main binary went through already, and that's usually a small file.

Some developers don't have this quite figured out yet. Or the amount of data required to play is huge compared to the total data, so it takes a long time anyway.
PS3 was and is very bad in this area and they have learned - it's much better on the PS4. Some data can be tagged non-critical, meaning it will be installed last and you can begin play without having installed it.

I see this as a win-win.
-More disc-based games. That's good for Gamestop.
-Disc-based game can be resold and therefore has some residual value. That's good for the customer.
-It costs a bit to manufacture the disc and case, and also it costs a bit more to ship a disc instead of a piece of cardboard with a code printed on it. That's bad for the console maker, but not catastrophic.

NX will sell well. Because every Nintendo handheld system sells well for reasons I don't fully (or even partially) understand.
Somehow, I don't think consumer-focused decisions like whether region controls will be in place or how games are distributed will factor into its success. NDS was really good in terms of consumer value. 3DS is medium because it can't play other-region games like NDS can.

NDS sold 150 million units in 9 years (2004 - 2013).
3DS has sold 55 million units in 4.5 years (2011 - now). 3DS is doing a lot worse than NDS, but still pretty well. I think it's a function of smartphone usage now rather than the lack of an ability to play other region game.

There was a huge backlash against Microsoft digital-only game proposal and that allowed Sony to "win" E3 in 2013, easily and wow, that was a huge Microsoft blunder. It's two years later. Nintendo will not make the same mistake. Games will be available from day one both physically and digitally like they are on PS4, Xbox One and Wii U. Digital offers convenience but lower value which is why some gamers won't stand for a system that doesn't allow the digital / physical choice.

Foxi4 · Sep 18, 2015

flame1234 said:
Some developers don't have this quite figured out yet. Or the amount of data required to play is huge compared to the total data, so it takes a long time anyway.
PS3 was and is very bad in this area and they have learned - it's much better on the PS4. Some data can be tagged non-critical, meaning it will be installed last and you can begin play without having installed it.

I see this as a win-win.
-More disc-based games. That's good for Gamestop.
-Disc-based game can be resold and therefore has some residual value. That's good for the customer.
-It costs a bit to manufacture the disc and case, and also it costs a bit more to ship a disc instead of a piece of cardboard with a code printed on it. That's bad for the console maker, but not catastrophic.

NX will sell well. Because every Nintendo handheld system sells well for reasons I don't fully (or even partially) understand.
Somehow, I don't think consumer-focused decisions like whether region controls will be in place or how games are distributed will factor into its success. NDS was really good in terms of consumer value. 3DS is medium because it can't play other-region games like NDS can.

NDS sold 150 million units in 9 years (2004 - 2013).
3DS has sold 55 million units in 4.5 years (2011 - now). 3DS is doing a lot worse than NDS, but still pretty well. I think it's a function of smartphone usage now rather than the lack of an ability to play other region game.

There was a huge backlash against Microsoft digital-only game proposal and that allowed Sony to "win" E3 in 2013, easily and wow, that was a huge Microsoft blunder. It's two years later. Nintendo will not make the same mistake. Games will be available from day one both physically and digitally like they are on PS4, Xbox One and Wii U. Digital offers convenience but lower value which is why some gamers won't stand for a system that doesn't allow the digital / physical choice.

The backlash was not over digital only, but over console-locking discs, preventing resale.

Zeriel said:
Tell me again why I need a console if every game is digital? Why can't Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo release for PC then?
Why the fuck would I pay 500$ just to have a weak ass hardware and a way for companies to physically DRM me?? That's BS

For the same reasons why you buy consoles today - it's cheap, plug and play, convenient and comes with a guarantee of optimal performance with no upgrades required later down the line. The strength of consoles lays in standardized hardware, something the PC will never enjoy, hence longer API's, more overhead and thus more computing power required for the same tasks.

Zeriel said:
Wow dude learn to speak English before you try to annoy someone, I feel bad for you, don't they have schools in Canada?

His post is just fine, your reading comprehension is not - kids don't get to choose, they play on whatever consoles the parents buy and it's hard to convince a parent to get you a $2K+ rig for playing New Super Mario Bros. 8.

MidLevelCrisis · Sep 18, 2015

How about a digital licence with every physical copy, and let us decide for ourselves if it is worthy of our hard drives. I only go digital if I dont really care much about it. And while we're at it, how about bringing back decent manuals with background information and some art, one page quickstart leaflets make me cry inside.

Zeriel · Sep 18, 2015

MidLevelCrisis said:
How about a digital licence with every physical copy, and let us decide for ourselves if it is worthy of our hard drives. I only go digital if I dont really care much about it. And while we're at it, how about bringing back decent manuals with background information and some art, one page quickstart leaflets make me cry inside.

One of the few replies that makes sense on this thread. This would be the best solution but the problem is that games are so huge now days that they need to be downloaded. The advantage of having a console is over, a digital only console is nothing more than a DRM device so you are forced to play 1st party games on their home console. The funny thing is that the only one who can even afford to do this is Nintendo, most games on PS4 and Xbox are 3rd party and on PC anyway. I can see consoles disappearing within the next 5-6 years.

Hells Malice · Sep 18, 2015

Regardless of their motive, I approve. I despise consoles coming with a digital game. I imagine it also hurts plenty of retailers because a person can easily just buy the bundle, use the game code and then return it. The average retail employee gives absolutely no shits or wont even know to check.
I'm sure that also weighed into their decision.

TecXero said:
I wouldn't even use that. Humble and GOG are good, though.

You wont use the most successful and streamlined gaming service ever created?
Get outta here you fuckin' hispster.

DJPlace · Sep 18, 2015

the only way i got digital is so i don't have to pay FUCKING NY SALES TAX. for PSN games anyway

Armadillo · Sep 18, 2015

Foxi4 said:
TThe strength of consoles lays in standardized hardware, something the PC will never enjoy, hence longer API's, more overhead and thus more computing power required for the same tasks.
.

Completely off-topic, but isn't dx12 meant to help/minimise the overhead?

Back on topic.

I'm completely digital on pc and happy with that. Codes being available from multiple places, means competition and decent prices, just like physical.

Consoles, I'm all physical. Digital prices are absurd here. Most retail games on psn are £49.99, some are even £54.99. Meanwhile the physicals are £39.99 on release, if that. The publishers can jog on with those prices on digital.

Foxi4 · Sep 18, 2015

Armadillo said:
Completely off-topic, but isn't dx12 meant to help/minimise the overhead?

Minimize? Yes. Eliminate? No. At the end of the day, there are millions of possible PC configurations and only one configuration for consoles, occasionally two if a console has a stopgap upgrade. Performance has to be impacted by this unless the application is virtualized in which case the hardware doesn't matter, the performance of the virtual machine does, but that makes no sense on consoles since the whole point is being closer to bare metal.

As for your price complaint, two little words: sales and PSPlus. You can find good bargains on the PSN store, especially during holidays, and PSPlus should keep you busy with discounts and IGC.

Magnus87 · Sep 18, 2015

jonthedit said:
I feel GameStop should go out of business.
On a serious note, why physical? Digital is the way to go, especially with all the great deals available on digital copies! Then again, I do not buy new games. I rarely pay more than $5, so I can not give a good opinion on "NEW" bundles. Perhaps someone who is willing to pay full price for digital VS physical will have a more definitive opinion.

I prefer Physical version. I play it but also I collect it .
On july I bought a Wii U with SM3DW and NintendoLand. I hate it, both game are installed on my WiiU. Now I need to buy again 2 games D:

Zeriel · Sep 18, 2015

Wow finally the smart people came out to discuss this, I was having a brain hemorrhage trying to explain how bad it would be for consumers if only Sony / Microsoft controlled the digital prices.

Foxi4 said:
Minimize? Yes. Eliminate? No. At the end of the day, there are millions of possible PC configurations and only one configuration for consoles, occasionally two if a console has a stopgap upgrade. Performance has to be impacted by this unless the application is virtualized in which case the hardware doesn't matter, the performance of the virtual machine does, but that makes no sense on consoles since the whole point is being closer to bare metal.

As for your price complaint, two little words: sales and PSPlus. You can find good bargains on the PSN store, especially during holidays, and PSPlus should keep you busy with discounts and IGC.

Wow you need to stop fanboying for consoles because nothing you're saying really makes sense. Development overhead? Who cares when you're forced to pay 400-500$ for hardware when you already own a PC! a 200$ video card can run every console game out right now at twice the performance. Plus DX12 will streamline everything further, this is simply no excuse in favor of consoles. You're telling me I would rather pay 400-500$ for out dated tech I can't upgrade instead of investing on my own build? No gamer on their right mind would do that.

LoL and defending PS plus, you know the guys behind PSNow and renting Ben 10 for 40$...compare that to Steam and GoG and then get back to me. The more competition of retailers the better it is for consumers, it's simple, maybe if you where in favor of the consumers instead of the publishers I could agree with you.

Gorkensnorkel · Sep 18, 2015

Going full digital means no more used games, correct? A lot of people, myself included, go back and purchase libraries of used games years later because its cheap and you get to enjoy games you didn't have time to play at launch. As long as the price drops eventually on digital copies to match the price of used games... Lol, but that won't happen, maybe an occasional sale here and there.

Honestly though, if they get rid of physical copies they will exclude a GREAT many people from there customer base. I live in the Smoky Mountains and there is one internet provider for the entire area (1000 miles or so) and in most places they get 6m/s but where I'm at we get 3m/s (a small price to pay for having a waterfall in my backyard) which technically broadband/highspeed but... its not very fast when your downloading a 50 GB+ game that takes 5 days. I saw the last Wolfenstein for sale on Steam for $20 and what did I do? I didn't buy it. The same will happen with every other 50 GB game I have to download.

On top of that, personally a LOT of people like to have what they spend there hard-earned-f***ing-cash on in there hands and not tied to some account that can get hacked or banned like Steam. But whatever, let Nintendo get rid of physical copies and go digital (if thats the rumor), there usually the first to try all the dumbest ideas out and usually it doesn't work out to well for them. Life is short and I need to spend more time outdoors, heh.

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