Homebrew Idea for SNES emulation on DS...

NeroMayCry · Jan 31, 2007

What if, rather than creating emulator applications for the DS that would launch your normal .SMC, we were to create a Patcher (similar to the type used to allow slot-2 flashcarts to play DS ROMs) that would modify the ROM into 1) a .NDS file and 2). modify the contents so that it would be better adapted to the DS hardware.

A key issue with the current emulators is that they tend to unpack the entire .SMC into RAM. Without a RAM pack, the DS only has 4MB of internal RAM to utilize for this task. Many SNES games, such as Seiken Densetsu 3, go over this limit. This is also limits compatibility with Slot-1 devices on their own. Instead of straining resources even further by forcing the DS to juggle an emulator app along with the actual .SMC data, why not just focus on the game? While a universal fix/patcher doesn't seem easy or likely, I'm sure experimentation with single games can lead to some big things.

jeklnoo · Feb 1, 2007

It's way too much work, few people have the ability to do it, and it's not worth their time. Come back when you know what you're talking about.

GameGeezer · Feb 1, 2007

QUOTE(NeroMayCry @ Jan 31 2007 said:
What if, rather than creating emulator applications for the DS that would launch your normal .SMC, we were to create a Patcher (similar to the type used to allow slot-2 flashcarts to play DS ROMs) that would modify the ROM into 1) a .NDS file and 2). modify the contents so that it would be better adapted to the DS hardware.

A key issue with the current emulators is that they tend to unpack the entire .SMC into RAM. Without a RAM pack, the DS only has 4MB of internal RAM to utilize for this task. Many SNES games, such as Seiken Densetsu 3, go over this limit. This is also limits compatibility with Slot-1 devices on their own. Instead of straining resources even further by forcing the DS to juggle an emulator app along with the actual .SMC data, why not just focus on the game? While a universal fix/patcher doesn't seem easy or likely, I'm sure experimentation with single games can lead to some big things.

If you build it they will come.

Normmatt · Feb 1, 2007

for starters the SNES and NDS have completely different hardware not to mention their CPU's are both incompatible with each other, so is the graphics hardware, your basically saying you want someone to remake the game specifically for the nds which unless they are being contracted by nintendo would be a serious waste of their time and would probably take years

decept · Feb 1, 2007

Yeah.. that's a great idea!!! We can also make a patcher that makes N64 roms with .toast extension so we can all play it on our toasters!

Imagine playing Mario 64 while making breakfast!!! T3h Aw3S0m3~~!@one

rippon · Feb 1, 2007

What he's suggesting isn't impossible, it's essentially the same thing as cached dynamic recompilation. More than a few commercial classic game packs at least partially 'pre-emulate' some of the more complicated game ROMs (obviously this doesn't apply to games where readable source is available). But it's a healthy time investment and very very difficult to get right, and hard to justify the time spent unless you're getting paid for it.

Mewgia · Feb 1, 2007

Something like this would be awesome. I would pay moneys for that...

NeroMayCry · Feb 1, 2007

I'm not saying that the resources and code would be re-optimized to a level of perfection; that's quite near impossible and would require one to recreate the game from scratch. Instead the game would be recompiled in a way that certain aspects could be weeded out and better alotted to things such as RAM.

Current SNES emulators for PC can already pick up on several of these things.

Veho · Feb 2, 2007

QUOTE(decept @ Feb 1 2007 said:
Yeah.. that's a great idea!!!Â We can also make a patcher that makes N64 roms with .toast extension so we can all play it on our toasters!

I like toast

jpxdude · Feb 2, 2007

What's being suggested is possible, injecting/patching roms as standalone executable isn't new in snes/nes emulation. Infact PocketNes, and the SNES emu on the GC work in the same way pretty successfully. It'd be worth a try!

Covarr · Feb 4, 2007

No, what PocketNES does is puts the emulator and the rom in the same file; it doesn't actually modify the rom itself.

camx · Feb 4, 2007

Imagine if this was possible, the amount of work would be saved on emulators themselves? I know your getting flamed, but please fathom the sheer ridiculousness of this idea; don't you think that it would have been done somehow on some platform by now... instead of wishing like i have for years for decent SNES/other systems on the GBA or DS, get a PSP... sorry but its perfect and no more waiting for stuff that will *cough* NEVER magically appear. BTW i'm willing to eat my words if it ever does. but consider me going all in on that bet.

edit: 1 more thing to add

go explore the depths of pipe dream posts on pocketheaven and see just how people react over there. although i dont recommend getting sucked into all the emulator author worshiping they do.

OSW · Feb 4, 2007

QUOTE(veho @ Feb 2 2007 said:
QUOTE(decept @ Feb 1 2007 said:

Yeah.. that's a great idea!!! We can also make a patcher that makes N64 roms with .toast extension so we can all play it on our toasters!

I like toast

Click to expand...

Me too

Covarr · Feb 5, 2007

QUOTE(OSW @ Feb 4 2007 said:
QUOTE(veho @ Feb 2 2007 said:

QUOTE(decept @ Feb 1 2007 said:

Yeah.. that's a great idea!!!Â We can also make a patcher that makes N64 roms with .toast extension so we can all play it on our toasters!

I like toast

Click to expand...

Me too

Click to expand...

Standard quoting ettiquette rules state that it's generally bad form to quote an entire post just for a two word response.

sixb0nes · Feb 5, 2007

QUOTE(Covarr @ Feb 5 2007 said:
QUOTE(OSW @ Feb 4 2007 said:

QUOTE(veho @ Feb 2 2007 said:

QUOTE(decept @ Feb 1 2007 said:

Yeah.. that's a great idea!!! We can also make a patcher that makes N64 roms with .toast extension so we can all play it on our toasters!

I like toast

Me too

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Standard quoting ettiquette rules state that it's generally bad form to quote an entire post just for a two word response.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

VmprHntrD · Feb 5, 2007

Why do people stupidly act like there aren't any SNES emulators for the DS when there are? Also why does PocketNES in particular tend to come up from Loopy/Flubba yet their very own SNESDS emulator never get a friggin' note?

They had the PocketSNES/SNES Advance emulator that in a dozen or so cases can with the hacked dat file run games around 90-100% speed without audio on the much lesser GBA hardware. With these open source projects out there why not take the roots of those damn finely coded examples and work towards a SNES emulator with audio? I mean with the added CPU at 66mhz and much great levels of RAM and WRAM to burn there's relatively no reason why it can't be done IF someone with some time and smarts in coding would take the task.

That's truly the best choice. Standard highly optimized emulator which you run an app that slaps it with X amount of ROMS into a bin file the hardware can read like any other game. That is the best bet.

camx · Feb 6, 2007

What emulators out there actually get solid support and continuity these days? ZSNES? These projects are so easy to pick up yet almost 99% impossible to finish. There should be a warning label on all technical docs for any aspiring homebrew authors: DO NOT ATTEMPT. do not even try to start it because the ego stroking "oohs and ahhs" you get in the beginning can never out-yell the resounding sighs of disappointment when you abandon your project and leave it in the barely working beta stages. look at snes9xTYL: months and months pass with a forum audience wondering whats going on, although forum regulars censor all questions of the authors whereabouts, the guy is NOwhere to be found, right after a flood of great updates and progress and *promises*.

sorry to rain on your pocketSNES parade VHD i know you do a lot of horn tooting for loopy/flubba and i appreciate your enthusiasm but seriously when updates are so far between and so sporadic you tend to get bitter and wish they never even started the damn things in the first place. if your done working on it, if you dont like it anymore or if your just tired or plain STUCK on what comes next, at least be able to tell your thousands of salivating fans that its over instead of picking it up every few months changing little and making lovely "coming soon" posts.

VmprHntrD · Feb 9, 2007

Hey my point was they did it, to a good extent, but the projects are way far from complete and I'm not happy about the lack of progress either. Honestly if you're going to quit, tell someone, be a man, or better yet release the source as someone would likely bite.

Mr.Curlynose1 · Feb 9, 2007

QUOTE(decept @ Feb 1 2007 said:
Yeah.. that's a great idea!!!Â We can also make a patcher that makes N64 roms with .toast extension so we can all play it on our toasters!

Imagine playing Mario 64 while making breakfast!!! T3h Aw3S0m3~~!@one

That's funny, because there actually is a .toast extension for the Mac disc-burning program Toast Titanium.

Too bad it doesn't work on a real toaster.

mcbey · Feb 9, 2007

QUOTE(decept @ Feb 1 2007 said:
Yeah.. that's a great idea!!!Â We can also make a patcher that makes N64 roms with .toast extension so we can all play it on our toasters!

Imagine playing Mario 64 while making breakfast!!! T3h Aw3S0m3~~!@one

Thats signature worthy.

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