Suggestion 3DS: ARM9 competition

173210 · Aug 1, 2015

3DS generally needs the following exploits:
ARM11 Userland Exploit (with code execution)
ARM11 Kernel Exploit
ARM9 Exploit

smealum often provides ARM11 userland and kernel exploit, but ARM9 exploit completely depends on Gateway 3DS. ARM9 exploit is necessary for emuNAND, CIAs, game mods, and so on.

How about holding ARM9 competition on GBAtemp.net? I made a debugger for ARM9, so the environment is ready for hackers to develop ARM9 exploit. Now we need someone who actually make an exploit. If we ask users for donation for the competition, it will be so nice!

I add a poll to ask everyone whether you donate for the competition. Please answer.

Vappy · Aug 1, 2015

It's a nice idea, but probably anyone capable of finding a new ARM9 exploit either already has, or would do so even without the incentive of a competition. I'm sure there are already a few developers who've found their own but won't release them for various reasons, notably because they don't want to be associated with enabling further piracy.
And besides, the last time the 3DS scene had a fundraiser, the person being donated to ran off with the money, so everyone is understandably more cautious about giving money to someone who doesn't already have something to show.

173210 · Aug 1, 2015

Vappy said:
It's a nice idea, but probably anyone capable of finding a new ARM9 exploit either already has, or would do so even without the incentive of a competition. I'm sure there are already a few developers who've found their own but won't release them for various reasons, notably because they don't want to be associated with enabling further piracy.
And besides, the last time the 3DS scene had a fundraiser, the person being donated to ran off with the money, so everyone is understandably more cautious about giving money to someone who doesn't already have something to show.

Partly I agree, but note that the current 3DS hacking scene is not all. In PSP scene, we had many hackers who made exploits. I hope they will be back and start hacking 3DS.

Hmm, I didn't know the swindle. wololo is one of the most reliable men, who is capable to do that. But he has a different forum (wololo.ne/talk) . Anyway, even if the scene in GBAtemp.net is so corrupted, we don't have to abandon.

EDIT:
https://twitter.com/currieddonuts/status/627307085416431616

> Alex ‏@currieddonuts
> @173210 @frwololo already stated (during the vita exploit bounty) that he didn't want to handle any money for these kinds of things btw.

Vappy · Aug 1, 2015

173210 said:
Partly I agree, but note that the current 3DS hacking scene is not all. In PSP scene, we had many hackers who made exploits. I hope they will be back and start hacking 3DS.

I hope so too. It'd be great to see people being more open about hacking the console, and I've seen several recognizable names in the scene say the same thing. But apart from Smealum's Ninjhax releases, no-one else has released new exploits that they discovered and developed themselves. The first 4.x exploits were from reverse engineering Gateway, and there wasn't any emuNAND/CIA installation/etc until someone stole and leaked yellows8's software. Then 9.x again was reversed from Gateway by yifanlu. If Gateway hadn't found the exploits and released their flashcart in the first place, there would probably be no public ARM9 exploits.

173210 said:
Hmm, I didn't know the swindle. wololo is one of the most reliable men, who is capable to do that. But he has a different forum (wololo.ne/talk) . Anyway, even if the scene in GBAtemp.net is so corrupted, we don't have to abandon.

Yeah, there's been some reliable fundraisers on wololo's site, but I'm not sure how interested he would be in engaging with the 3DS scene. Most of the blog posts made about the 3DS on his site are written by reprep.
The other fundraiser I mentioned was by gshock/jl12 https://gbatemp.net/threads/3ds-decapping-fundraising-topic.336767/ He got the $2,000, plus some more when he asked for more, and then disappeared and I don't think anyone has seen him since.

173210 · Aug 1, 2015

Vappy said:
I hope so too. It'd be great to see people being more open about hacking the console, and I've seen several recognizable names in the scene say the same thing. But apart from Smealum's Ninjhax releases, no-one else has released new exploits that they discovered and developed themselves. The first 4.x exploits were from reverse engineering Gateway, and there wasn't any emuNAND/CIA installation/etc until someone stole and leaked yellows8's software. Then 9.x again was reversed from Gateway by yifanlu. If Gateway hadn't found the exploits and released their flashcart in the first place, there would probably be no public ARM9 exploits.

Exactly. I believe they (maybe excluding Smealum, I'm not sure.) used hardware modding to accomplish that. But thanks to that, I could develop a software debugger on ARM9. So it's the time for software hackers to exploit 3DS.

zoogie · Aug 1, 2015

The staff doesn't really care for homebrew that much. They just tolerate it.

You would have to organize something separate from gbatemp sadly.

Vappy · Aug 1, 2015

zoogie said:
The staff doesn't really care for homebrew that much. They just tolerate it.

You would have to organize something separate from gbatemp sadly.

Yeah, there's this too. The staff tend to take a more hands-off approach to homebrew development, apart from encouraging and advertising it. This'd probably be better in one of the 3DS subforums.
Either way, sort of hard for anyone to use your debugger without having released it yet.

Maybe once you have you'll attract more interest.

173210 · Aug 1, 2015

Vappy said:
Yeah, there's this too. The staff tend to take a more hands-off approach to homebrew development, apart from encouraging and advertising it. This'd probably be better in one of the 3DS subforums.
Either way, sort of hard for anyone to use your debugger without having released it yet. Maybe once you have you'll attract more interest.

I'm waiting for PASTA team, developing rxTools. But I think it will get ready to accept my patch soon.

reprep · Aug 1, 2015

I think this is a great idea.

Suiginou · Aug 1, 2015

What kind of fuckwit would release an ARM9 exploit less than two years after the last released one? They're already rare as can be and selling one to Gateway will arguably bring in more than whatever this can yield.

zoogie · Aug 1, 2015

Suiginou said:
What kind of fuckwit would release an ARM9 exploit less than two years after the last released one? They're already rare as can be and selling one to Gateway will arguably bring in more than whatever this can yield.

We're in the 5th year of the 3ds's existence so why not, the system isn't going to be current gen for much longer. (i'll give it a year)
The 3ds will not have the DS's unprecedented lifespan either.

173210 · Aug 1, 2015

Suiginou said:
What kind of fuckwit would release an ARM9 exploit less than two years after the last released one? They're already rare as can be and selling one to Gateway will arguably bring in more than whatever this can yield.

I used to think so, but it's not true. I know that with the experience in PSP and 3DS is weaker than PSP (except that it has two CPUs and execution protection on ARM11) .

Normmatt · Aug 1, 2015

173210 said:
I used to think so, but it's not true. I know that with the experience in PSP and 3DS is weaker than PSP (except that it has two CPUs and execution protection on ARM11) .

No.... (Sony Security == Broken Security) != Nintendo Security

Suiginou · Aug 1, 2015

Normmatt said:
Sony Security == Broken Security

I thought the Vita held up quite well?

WiiUBricker · Aug 1, 2015

Suiginou said:
I thought the Vita held up quite well?

I think by saying 'Sony Security' he actually means PSP Security.

173210 · Aug 1, 2015

Normmatt said:
No.... (Sony Security == Broken Security) != Nintendo Security

(Sony Security == Security full of flaws) > (Nintendo Security == 1e-10)

Demifiend · Aug 2, 2015

The ARM9 is indeed a thing worth of further investigation, sadly, i have no program skills to support nor the money either, but i could investigate everything about it, and see if there's something weird on this, and share it with the community, Is still amusing how many people still see the 3DS as a console that was released the past month, when it has already 4 years in the market, two successful flashcards, and eventually, a step to the CFW entry, the CFW being released the past year, but only updated in this one, anyway, the security on the PSP and the 3DS are different, but from what i can see, the flaw of the PSP was mainly the badly implemented security mechanics on the console, which led many hackers to alter the console the way they wanted, and by itself, access to anything in the PSP, but to be fair, the PSP is the holy grail of all the hacked consoles, that existed and will ever exist.

Anyway, the 3DS isn't the most secured console either, it may have taken a longer time to hack than the PSP, but the exploit potential of this console is pretty much high, i will investigate just about anything i can, i'm not a developer, hacker or anything, i'm just a spectator, who wants to step beyond the limits.

Suggestion 3DS: ARM9 competition

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