Hacking Nintendont

TecXero · Jun 16, 2015

Troopage said:
I didn't really know what to call it, but I want a setting that lets you hide the overscan border, I suppose.
By widescreen mode do you mean force widescreen? I don't like enabling it because of the stretched sprites and text.
I don't think it works like that, but I'm not sure. I mean, Fix did add the "Wii U Widescreen" setting.

Well, a setting to crop the border off would probably be easy, but then it would be slightly out of proportion. Having it not be rendered and instead render more of the game could be tricky, depending on what layer the border uses (if it's rendered that way at all) and would have to be done for each game individually.

As for the widescreen, I just meant in how the Wii handles widescreen, which is limited by the hardware. The Wii U Widescreen setting is just for Wii Us with HDMI connections, so it will tell the HDTV what aspect to display in. Having a widescreen mode that doesn't stretch UI sprites (like in Wind Waker) might be impossible. Especially since, due to how the Wii handles widescreen (which is anamorphic), the sprites are displaying properly, it's the TV that's stretching them out. You want Nintendont to squish them down so they are the right proportions when stretched back out on widescreen displays. That might not work at all in some games' engine. Some games might be rather easy to do, but I doubt that many. If you want that widescreen, Dolphin is your best bet right now.

So essentially you want to have the ability to remove the overscan borders and a widescreen mode that alters the sprites as well. Overscan borders, maybe, but the sprites might not be able to be done. It's a hardware limitation in possible combination of a limitation in the games' engine. Even if it could be done, it would probably be far too much work.

Adeka · Jun 16, 2015

The game that somebody changed to orange on the compatibility list. Someone want to make a video of that error? Sounds more like a game glitch then a Nintendont problem

Troopage · Jun 16, 2015

TecXero said:
Well, a setting to crop the border off would probably be easy, but then it would be slightly out of proportion. Having it not be rendered and instead render more of the game could be tricky, depending on what layer the border uses (if it's rendered that way at all) and would have to be done for each game individually.

I have some questions. How would it be slightly out of proportion? I wanted this setting so that games would be stretched back out to the correct proportion. Why would it have to be done for each game? Wii U Widescreen doesn't have to be done for each game. It practically works like a TV setting.

TecXero said:
As for the widescreen, I just meant in how the Wii handles widescreen, which is limited by the hardware. The Wii U Widescreen setting is just for Wii Us with HDMI connections, so it will tell the HDTV what aspect to display in. Having a widescreen mode that doesn't stretch UI sprites (like in Wind Waker) might be impossible. Especially since, due to how the Wii handles widescreen (which is anamorphic), the sprites are displaying properly, it's the TV that's stretching them out. You want Nintendont to squish them down so they are the right proportions when stretched back out on widescreen displays. That might not work at all in some games' engine. Some games might be rather easy to do, but I doubt that many. If you want that widescreen, Dolphin is your best bet right now.

The Wii/Wii U doesn't apply anamorphic widescreen to Nintendont; either that or the devs found a way to make it look like it doesn't. My computer can't run games on Dolphin well.

TecXero said:
So essentially you want to have the ability to remove the overscan borders and a widescreen mode that alters the sprites as well. Overscan borders, maybe, but the sprites might not be able to be done. It's a hardware limitation in possible combination of a limitation in the games' engine. Even if it could be done, it would probably be far too much work.

Yes, essentially I'm asking for a setting you can toggle just like Wii U Widescreen, but to stretch the image differently and Swiss widescreen patching, which seems to already have patched sprites. It is open source and I've linked it to this thread several times already. I don't know if it can be used but I thought it was worth giving a look at.

TecXero · Jun 16, 2015

Troopage said:
I have some questions. How would it be slightly out of proportion? I wanted this setting so that games would be stretched back out to the correct proportion. Why would it have to be done for each game? Wii U Widescreen doesn't have to be done for each game. It practically works like a TV setting.

The Wii/Wii U doesn't apply anamorphic widescreen to Nintendont; either that or the devs found a way to make it look like it doesn't. My computer can't run games on Dolphin well.

Yes, essentially I'm asking for a setting you can toggle just like Wii U Widescreen, but to stretch the image differently and Swiss widescreen patching, which seems to already have patched sprites. It is open source and I've linked it to this thread several times already. I don't know if it can be used but I thought it was worth giving a look at.

I was wrong about the vWii widescreen, so I'm not entirely sure how it's handled on that side. As for the borders, look up overscan borders. It's already at the right proportion, at least it should be on your TV. If it's not, that's probably your TV's fault. Also, from what I've seen of Swiss, it also stretches out sprites the same way, due to how sprites are assigned. There could be a way around it for some games, like Metroid Prime. Other games, it would probably require a more complicated modification and could probably only be done on vWii, if at all in the current Nintendont. All I'm saying is this is a bit of a pipe dream. I shouldn't say it's impossible, as it really isn't, just that it would take a lot of work.

Troopage · Jun 17, 2015

TecXero said:
I was wrong about the vWii widescreen, so I'm not entirely sure how it's handled on that side. As for the borders, look up overscan borders. It's already at the right proportion, at least it should be on your TV. If it's not, that's probably your TV's fault. Also, from what I've seen of Swiss, it also stretches out sprites the same way, due to how sprites are assigned. There could be a way around it for some games, like Metroid Prime. Other games, it would probably require a more complicated modification and could probably only be done on vWii, if at all in the current Nintendont. All I'm saying is this is a bit of a pipe dream. I shouldn't say it's impossible, as it really isn't, just that it would take a lot of work.

OHHHHHHH. I looked it up and it turns out that I mixed up what the overscan border was. No, my TV shows everything at the right proportion. Why did you ask me if that's what I wanted? You got me all confused. Lol
I don't want the overscan borders gone. I want the thin black bars on the left and right side of the game gone in a setting. Not the thick black bars from having the game in 4:3 if you think that's what I'm talking about.
I'll put some pics below that I want you to look at. People might recognize them from an old post I made, but I've edited them by adding the borders, and for clarity.

Everybody should check these out so they don't misunderstand me anymore:

How it looks in Nintendont:

How I want to be able to make it look:

If you flip between the two pics, you can really see the difference.

VinsCool · Jun 17, 2015

Troopage said:
OHHHHHHH. I looked it up and it turns out that I mixed up what the overscan border was. No, my TV shows everything at the right proportion. Why did you ask me if that's what I wanted? You got me all confused. Lol
I don't want the overscan borders gone. I want the thin black bars on the left and right side of the game gone in a setting. Not the thick black bars from having the game in 4:3 if you think that's what I'm talking about.
I'll put some pics below that I want you to look at. People might recognize them from an old post I made, but I've edited them by adding the borders, and for clarity.
Everybody should check these out so they don't misunderstand me:

How it looks in Nintendont:
View attachment 20416
How I want to be able to make it look:
View attachment 20417
If you flip between the two pics, you can really see the difference.

This is possible with Devolution already. But not in nintendont as of yet. I would like this option though. Some games has heavy black bars.

Troopage · Jun 17, 2015

VinsCool said:
This is possible with Devolution already. But not in nintendont as of yet. I would like this option though. Some games has heavy black bars.

Yeah! As I said about the original pics, however SMS is a bad game example since it's supposed to be in 16:11.2. Lol

TecXero · Jun 17, 2015

Troopage said:
OHHHHHHH. I looked it up and it turns out that I mixed up what the overscan border was. No, my TV shows everything at the right proportion. Why did you ask me if that's what I wanted? You got me all confused. Lol
I don't want the overscan borders gone. I want the thin black bars on the left and right side of the game gone in a setting. Not the thick black bars from having the game in 4:3 if you think that's what I'm talking about.
I'll put some pics below that I want you to look at. People might recognize them from an old post I made, but I've edited them by adding the borders, and for clarity.
Everybody should check these out so they don't misunderstand me anymore:

How it looks in Nintendont:
View attachment 20416
How I want to be able to make it look:
View attachment 20417
If you flip between the two pics, you can really see the difference.

Yeah, I lumped that together with overscan. I had to look that up, it's underscan borders. Some older consoles and games used them. If you just crop them off, it will be stretched a bit horizontally. If you want to keep proper proportion (they did that deliberately with 4:3 screens in mind for one reason or another), you'd have to have Nintendont render slightly more horizontally while cropping off the borders or just crop off a bit from the top and bottom as well. My guess is they did that to be slightly easier on the hardware, since old TVs essentially cropped off a decent sized border when displaying (though I couldn't tell you why it's only on the left and ride side, I have a few theories but that's it). You can see a lot of those borders with various older consoles, especially the Sega Genesis/MD if you hook up your original. Your TV might crop that off natively for you, though. Some new TVs do for interlaced images, I assume whatever you're running Nintendont from is using Progressive. Generally, those borders aren't used by Progressive devices, at least not ones that thick. Sorry, I lumped overscan with underscan.

Though, a lot of Gamecube games were designed for Progressive. Have you tried using their native Progressive modes instead of with the Progressive patch? I'm not sure if it will do anything for you. Overall, it's just how it works and the games were designed like that for 4:3 screens. You'd have to ask someone who actually works on Nintendont as to if it can be done. I was just telling you why it probably couldn't be done, at least within reason (mostly for the sprites aspect ratio). The borders could probably be dealt with easy enough (via cropping all four sides), just not really something I'd consider an issue, just something a lot of games used to do to not waste resources on parts you wouldn't see anyway, due to limitations on TVs at the time.

Troopage · Jun 17, 2015

Tecfero said:
Yeah, I lumped that together with overscan. I had to look that up, it's underscan borders. Some older consoles and games used If you just crop them off, it will be stretched a bit horizontally. If you want to keep proper proportion (they did that deliberately with 4:3 screens in mind for one reason or another), you'd have to have Nintendont render slightly more horizontally while cropping off the borders or just crop off a bit from the top and bottom as well. My guess is they did that to be slightly easier on the hardware, since old TVs essentially cropped off a decent sized border when displaying. You can see a lot of those borders with various older consoles, especially the Sega Genesis/MD if you hook up your original. Your TV might crop that off natively for you, though. Some new TVs do for interlaced images, I assume whatever you're running Nintendont from is using Progressive. Generally, those borders aren't used by Progressive devices, at least not ones that thick. Sorry, I lumped overscan with underscan.

Though, a lot of Gamecube games were designed for Progressive. Have you tried using their native Progressive modes instead of with the Progressive patch? I'm not sure if it will do anything for you. Overall, it's just how it works and the games were designed like that for 4:3 screens. You'd have to ask someone who actually works on Nintendont as to if it can be done. I was just telling you why it probably couldn't be done, at least within reason (mostly for the sprites aspect ration). The borders could probably be dealt with easy enough (via cropping all four sides), just not really something I'd consider an issue, just something a lot of games used to do to not waste resources on parts you wouldn't see anyway, due to limitations on TVs at the time.

Hey man, it's all good. I was just teasing you a a little bit.
Thank you for looking into it more for us. I already knew how and why it happened, but I didn't know it was called underscan.
I keep my TV on the Screen Fit setting so nothing is stretched or cropped. I have changed it to see what would happen but it cuts of the top and bottom of the screen and I don't want that. I'd much rather just have the games stretched. I prefer to see everything.

I run Nintendont in progressive because it is generally a higher quality way to display things. I don't force progressive unless the game doesn't support it natively. It looks the same way for all games, sadly.
It's quite strange that you say Swiss' widescreen patching doesn't apply to sprites or text, because I think they look fine in the images in this post: https://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendont.349258/page-1275#post-5375062. What do you think? I wouldn't really even want this patching if I could turn the underscan on and off. Lol
I've been trying to see if Fix would take a look at this stuff, but idk. I know I'd really appreciate it. As you said, it's not really an "issue," but to me, it's so distracting that I haven't played the games that look squished in a long time because of it.

TecXero · Jun 17, 2015

Troopage said:
Hey man, it's all good. I was just teasing you a a little bit.
Thank you for looking into it more for us. I already knew how and why it happened, but I didn't know it was called underscan.
I keep my TV on the Screen Fit setting so nothing is stretched or cropped. I have changed it to see what would happen but it cuts of the top and bottom of the screen and I don't want that. I'd much rather just have the games stretched. I prefer to see everything.
I run Nintendont in progressive because it is generally a higher quality way to display things. I don't force progressive unless the game doesn't support it natively. It looks the same way for all games, sadly.
It's quite strange that you say Swiss' widescreen patching doesn't apply to sprites or text, because I think they look fine in the images in this post: https://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendont.349258/page-1275#post-5375062. What do you think? I wouldn't really even want this patching if I could turn the underscan on and off. Lol
I've been trying to see if Fix would take a look at this stuff, but idk. I know I'd really appreciate it. As you said, it's not really an "issue," but to me, it's so distracting that I haven't played the games that look squished in a long time because of it.

From what I've seen, Swiss's widescreen patch did something similar, but it's been a while so it could be a lot different now. Out of mostly nostalgia, I went back to using my gamecube, so I won't be messing with any of that stuff for a while.

I simply wanted to explain to you that some of this might not be as easy as you thought. Though, I'm not entirely sure about vWii anymore, since it displays differently than Wii. I might have to look into enabling homebrew on vWii and start mucking about with it.

rise_against · Jun 17, 2015

i installed nintendont and everything works great except for the shutdown key combination (reset works just fine). when i press R+Z+B+Down (D-pad) the wii freezes. any idea why? every nintendont setting is off and im using v3.336

pedro702 · Jun 17, 2015

rise_against said:
i installed nintendont and everything works great except for the shutdown key combination (reset works just fine). when i press R+Z+B+Down (D-pad) the wii freezes. any idea why? every nintendont setting is off and im using v3.336

where are you using nintendont from?

directly from homebrew channel?
from a fowarder?
usbloader gx/wiiflow?

also update to the
latest rev being 344 there is no reason to stay in 336.

rise_against · Jun 17, 2015

pedro702 said:
where are you using nintendont from?

directly from homebrew channel?
from a fowarder?
usbloader gx/wiiflow?

also update to the
latest rev being 344 there is no reason to stay in 336.

using nintendont with cfg loader mod. tried the latest version with the same result plus virtua striker 3 didnt work so i kept the old one

pedro702 · Jun 17, 2015

rise_against said:
using nintendont with cfg loader mod. tried the latest version with the same result plus virtua striker 3 didnt work so i kept the old one

if virtua striker didnt work is becuase of your cfg settings for sure, there is no changes that affect games, just individual game changes like timer fixes for the last games wich only affect those gameids, is your cfg a channel? or your using it on homebrew?

deshayzilla · Jun 17, 2015

Does Nintendont have memory card slot B emulation? I wanna be able to visit towns in animal crossing.

pedro702 · Jun 17, 2015

deshayzilla said:
Does Nintendont have memory card slot B emulation? I wanna be able to visit towns in animal crossing.

no you need a real memcard with memcard off on GC compatible wiis for that, nintendont doesnt have memory to have 2 memory card slots at the same time and if that was ever implemented everyone would need to use tiny memory card sizes.

deshayzilla · Jun 17, 2015

pedro702 said:
no you need a real memcard with memcard off on GC compatible wiis for that, nintendont doesnt have memory to have 2 memory card slots at the same time and if that was ever implemented everyone would need to use tiny memory card sizes.

That's too bad. For animal crossing you would only need a 59 block memory card.

ccfman2004 · Jun 17, 2015

pedro702 said:
no you need a real memcard with memcard off on GC compatible wiis for that, nintendont doesnt have memory to have 2 memory card slots at the same time and if that was ever implemented everyone would need to use tiny memory card sizes.

Then why not be able to use two 59 Block cards? I always use individual cards of the smallest size needed.

pedro702 · Jun 17, 2015

ccfman2004 said:
Then why not be able to use two 59 Block cards? I always use individual cards of the smallest size needed.

that is up to fix that would probably work imo but there would be alot of beeps xD, people would think the ssbm beeps would be a breeze xD, nintendont handling 2 diferent mc cards at once would be a beep party

ccfman2004 · Jun 17, 2015

pedro702 said:
that is up to fix that would probably work imo but there would be alot of beeps xD, people would think the ssbm beeps would be a breeze xD, nintendont handling 2 diferent mc cards at once would be a beep party

Then we could enable Slot B only for games that support it like Animal Crossing.

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