Homebrew blargSnes -- SNES emulator for the 3DS (WIP)

Azel · Feb 17, 2015

SLiV3R said:
Objection! Please don't compare handhelds to stationery consoles. They are not the same thing at all. And when did one person on earth enjoy emulators on a phone? Please tell me, I'm curious The psp is your closest suggestion. Personally I have had snes on my psp for 10 years. At the beginning I was really fascinated of the performance. But the horrible d-pad and disaster buttons and ghostening screen got me more and more dissatisfied and irritated on snes emulation on the psp. I even prefer to only be able to play five games near perfect on the NDS to psp snes emulation. Therefore I don't think the snes has been done properly and to my satisfaction so far. This is the closest emulator, even though it needs some more work.

I get what you mean about stationary and handheld and do agree.
that being said, emulation on android (Galaxy Note 2, which should be 150€ now (might be 150$ in the US I don't know)) with a gameklip, duashock3 and retroarch has been great for me so far.

LumInvader · Feb 17, 2015

SLiV3R said:
Objection! Please don't compare handhelds to stationery consoles. They are not the same thing at all. And when did one person on earth enjoy emulators on a phone? Please tell me, I'm curious The psp is your closest suggestion. Personally I have had snes on my psp for 10 years. At the beginning I was really fascinated of the performance. But the horrible d-pad and disaster buttons and ghostening screen got me more and more dissatisfied and irritated on snes emulation on the psp. I even prefer to only be able to play five games near perfect on the NDS to psp snes emulation. Therefore I don't think the snes has been done properly and to my satisfaction so far. This is the closest emulator, even though it needs some more work.

Unless you're referring specifically to the inferior PSP 1000, I completely disagree.

The PSP d-pad was fixed with the 2000 and the ghosting it had was minimized (but not eliminated). The standard buttons work fine. They use the same quality rubber contacts that are used with Playstation controllers. The 3DS uses mechanical buttons, which are meant to improve button longevity, not comfort. They work great for everything except the d-pad, as the tactile feedback prevents smooth circular d-pad movement. It's also MUCH smaller than the PSP's d-pad, which can be an issue for someone with large hands or when playing long sessions.

The screen quality argument is a mixed bag, but mostly favors the 3DS. The 3DS colors look extremely muddy next to the PSP and lacks it's 480 x 272 output, but pretty much beats the PSP in most other categories. Superior size (XL), superior scanlines, and virtually no ghosting.

Ghosting is only an issue on the PSP 2000 for games that don't reach 60 fps, which shouldn't be a problem with SNES titles since most play at full speed. With regard to SNES emulation, blarg's sound is unmatched. On the other hand, s9xtylmecm's compatibility rate is extremely high. ~96% of the games I've tested play with at least 1 frameskip, while ~83% play full speed. That's a fully mature SNES9x port, whereas blarg remains in an alpha state.

Having said that, I'm interested in the 3DS because it's SNES emulation has the potential to blow the PSP's out of the water. Potential being the key word here. Once reached, the huge screen, scanlines, and amazing sound should more than make up for it's deficiencies.

VinsCool · Feb 17, 2015

LumInvader said:
Unless you're referring specifically to the inferior PSP 1000, I completely disagree.

The PSP d-pad was fixed with the 2000 and the ghosting it had was minimized (but not eliminated). The standard buttons work fine. They use the same quality rubber contacts that are used with Playstation controllers. The 3DS uses mechanical buttons, which are meant to improve button longevity, not comfort. They work great for everything except the d-pad, as the tactile feedback prevents smooth circular d-pad movement. It's also MUCH smaller than the PSP's d-pad, which can be an issue for someone with large hands or when playing long sessions.

The screen quality argument is a mixed bag, but mostly favors the 3DS. The 3DS colors look extremely muddy next to the PSP and lacks it's 480 x 272 output, but pretty much beats the PSP in most other categories. Superior size (XL), superior scanlines, and virtually no ghosting.

Ghosting is only an issue on the PSP 2000 for games that don't reach 60 fps, which shouldn't be a problem with SNES titles since most play at full speed. With regard to SNES emulation, blarg's sound is unmatched. On the other hand, s9xtylmecm's compatibility rate is extremely high. ~96% of the games I've tested play with at least 1 frameskip, while ~83% play full speed. That's a fully mature SNES9x port, whereas blarg remains in an alpha state.

Having said that, I'm interested in the 3DS because it's SNES emulation has the potential to blow the PSP's out of the water. Potential being the key word here. Once reached, the huge screen, scanlines, and amazing sound should more than make up for it's deficiencies.

What could be expected next is a port of blargsnes to PSP

vingt-2 · Feb 18, 2015

StapleButter said:
BlargSnes

Hey Staple, I'm having trouble building Blarg. Aemstro crashes when assembling your shaders :

final.vsh
python3 /Users/vingt-2/devkitPro/aemstro/aemstro_as.py /Users/vingt-2/devkitPro/examples/blargSnes/data/final.vsh ../final.vsh.shbin
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/Users/vingt-2/devkitPro/aemstro/aemstro_as.py", line 665, in <module>
parseLine(dvlb.getDVLP(), vsh_dvle, line, False)
File "/Users/vingt-2/devkitPro/aemstro/aemstro_as.py", line 643, in parseLine
dirList[name](dvlp, dvle, r.group(2))
File "/Users/vingt-2/devkitPro/aemstro/aemstro_as.py", line 535, in parseOut
s[2]=s[2].replace(" ", "")
IndexError: list index out of range
make[1]: *** [final.vsh.o] Error 1
make: *** [build] Error 2

Have you ever had this ?

Pa0l0ne · Feb 18, 2015

Yep it's "normal"..you have to use old aemstro just like old ctrulib (see my old post)

the_randomizer · Feb 18, 2015

LumInvader said:
Unless you're referring specifically to the inferior PSP 1000, I completely disagree.

The PSP d-pad was fixed with the 2000 and the ghosting it had was minimized (but not eliminated). The standard buttons work fine. They use the same quality rubber contacts that are used with Playstation controllers. The 3DS uses mechanical buttons, which are meant to improve button longevity, not comfort. They work great for everything except the d-pad, as the tactile feedback prevents smooth circular d-pad movement. It's also MUCH smaller than the PSP's d-pad, which can be an issue for someone with large hands or when playing long sessions.

The screen quality argument is a mixed bag, but mostly favors the 3DS. The 3DS colors look extremely muddy next to the PSP and lacks it's 480 x 272 output, but pretty much beats the PSP in most other categories. Superior size (XL), superior scanlines, and virtually no ghosting.

Ghosting is only an issue on the PSP 2000 for games that don't reach 60 fps, which shouldn't be a problem with SNES titles since most play at full speed. With regard to SNES emulation, blarg's sound is unmatched. On the other hand, s9xtylmecm's compatibility rate is extremely high. ~96% of the games I've tested play with at least 1 frameskip, while ~83% play full speed. That's a fully mature SNES9x port, whereas blarg remains in an alpha state.

Having said that, I'm interested in the 3DS because it's SNES emulation has the potential to blow the PSP's out of the water. Potential being the key word here. Once reached, the huge screen, scanlines, and amazing sound should more than make up for it's deficiencies.

The only deal-breaker for PSP emulators, or emulators on PSP, like Snes9x, is the piss poor audio. But from what I've heard on tests on the 3DS, the audio emulation is godly, like, rarely are portable Snes emulators that good in the sound dept. But also keep in mind that the PSP has had homebrew longer than the 3DS has, so it has catching up to do

BlargSnes is already quite amazing.

vingt-2 · Feb 18, 2015

Thanks.

Soleiyu · Feb 18, 2015

Sorry if this is a 'noob' question: Since I don't feel comfortable editing the compatibility list myself, would it be ok to post games that have issues here, instead? Whoever wants to update the list using my info is fine with me, I don't care about credit. I just want to provide info so as to help improve this already-awesome emulator.

VinsCool · Feb 18, 2015

Soleiyu said:
Sorry if this is a 'noob' question: Since I don't feel comfortable editing the compatibility list myself, would it be ok to post games that have issues here, instead? Whoever wants to update the list using my info is fine with me, I don't care about credit. I just want to provide info so as to help improve this already-awesome emulator.

Sure, what have you been testing and what results did you get?

LumInvader · Feb 18, 2015

the_randomizer said:
The only deal-breaker for PSP emulators, or emulators on PSP, like Snes9x, is the piss poor audio. But from what I've heard on tests on the 3DS, the audio emulation is godly, like, rarely are portable Snes emulators that good in the sound dept. But also keep in mind that the PSP has had homebrew longer than the 3DS has, so it has catching up to do BlargSnes is already quite amazing.

I wouldn't call it a deal breaker. A disadvantage, perhaps. To me, the audio is a good vs. great argument. It's not like the PSP sounds like, say, Sega Smash Pack for the Sega Dreamcast.

VinsCool · Feb 18, 2015

LumInvader said:
I wouldn't call it a deal breaker. A disadvantage, perhaps. To me, the audio is a good vs. great argument. It's not like the PSP sounds like, say, Sega Smash Pack for the Sega Dreamcast.

Snes audio on psp is still crap compared to Blarg.

Soleiyu · Feb 18, 2015

Thanks for the prompt reply. Here's a few off the top of my head:

DoReMi Fantasy (Super Famicom) : A platformer -- Game runs perfectly but almost everything is muted. No music whatsoever and the only SFX I noticed was the one when you press "start" at the title screen.

R-Type III: The Third Lightning (Super Famicom) : A space shooter -- The music slows down horribly on boot and the problem persists as you play the game. Funny that the SNES version doesn't have that problem.

The Magical Quest starring Mickey Mouse (SNES) : A platformer -- Some background layers will not show up (e.g intro/story sequence) . Slowdown whenever there is water present (i.e major transparency?) . Taken or inflicted damage makes the sprite in question invisible for a while (i.e flickering doesn't work as it should?) .

Several fighters I have tried like Street Fighter II: The World Warrior -- Street Fighter II: Turbo: Hyper Fighting -- Gundam Wing: Endless Duel work but sprites are not rendered well while standing idly (there's some garbage/graphical 'noise' present) . It happens a bit less when performing moves but the problem persists.

the_randomizer · Feb 18, 2015

LumInvader said:
I wouldn't call it a deal breaker. A disadvantage, perhaps. To me, the audio is a good vs. great argument. It's not like the PSP sounds like, say, Sega Smash Pack for the Sega Dreamcast.

True, but it really really needs Blargg's S-SMP emulator and then the sound would be good

Soleiyu · Feb 18, 2015

(continued from previous post)

If anyone would like to address the issue with the vs. fighters - Curiously enough, the problem only affects one sprite in Garoudensetsu Special (JP version of Fatal Fury Special) - Wolfgang Krauser while standing idly. Other than that, the game plays flawlessly.

Art of Fighting works flawlessly too. Both versions.

Muscle Bomber (and US version: Saturday Night Slam Masters) give a black screen.

Super Double Dragon (and JP version: Return of Double Dragon) skip past the title screen to the menu screen and then 'hang' indefinitely (BlargSNES doesn't crash, though) .

Sonic Blast Man (Super Famicom) : A brawler -- Something in the intro demo and the mini games in-between stages give a black screen. If you boot up the game and skip the intro you'll be able to play a whole stage. The game works perfectly during that but after beating the boss the mini game intermission will spell "black screen".

LumInvader · Feb 18, 2015

the_randomizer said:
True, but it really really needs Blargg's S-SMP emulator and then the sound would be good

If we could combine both emulators we'd have either a nearly perfect emulator, or a really, really bad one.

Soleiyu · Feb 18, 2015

(continued from previous post)

This is general (I think...) : Whenever two audio channels 'overlap' - and especially if one plays a part in it - track play suffers from slowdown.

e.g In Mega Man/Rockman X - If you make any dialog text scroll through by keeping a button pressed, background music slows down noticeably. However, that won't happen should you leave it alone.

Soleiyu · Feb 18, 2015

(continued from previous post)

DISCLAIMER: Unfortunately, I am not positive which games may or may not be using a special chip. There some obvious examples like Star Fox or Rockman X2 but, anyhow, my bad if I included a few.
Anyone feel free to comment whether this info was contributing to the development of the emulator. Later! :nds:

DiscostewSM · Feb 18, 2015

Soleiyu said:
The Magical Quest starring Mickey Mouse (SNES) : A platformer -- Some background layers will not show up (e.g intro/story sequence) . Slowdown whenever there is water present (i.e major transparency?) . Taken or inflicted damage makes the sprite in question invisible for a while (i.e flickering doesn't work as it should?) .

The "missing" background layer during story sequences is actually the backdrop, which displays a solid color when no graphics obscure it. What's happening is there is a palette change mid-frame, but currently, hardware mode does not work support this. If you switch to software mode, you'll see it properly being done (because it renders per scanline rather than accumulating everything from top to bottom prior to rendering). Of course there are graphical problems in software mode during these sequences, but that is likely because software rendering hasn't been given the windowing fixes the hardware rendering has. @StapleButte has been working on mid-frame palette changes, and it seems to work with games like Tetris Attack and Cool Spot, but he says there still more to do with it.

Transparency itself doesn't have a hefty toll on the system, so I'd imagine it's something else that's causing the slowdown. I know in Super Metroid in the Maridia sections, the display of water sections makes it choppy, but that's because it's altering data for 2 background layers per scanline rather than having large sections with the same graphical settings, so instead of writing in an 8x8 tile, it's having to render 8 separate 8x1 lines, which is a lot more input for the GPU.

The invisible sprites that take damage is likely because of the slowdown. When rendering can't catch up, it skips frames, and the take damage visual is just turning the sprite on and off, which just so happens to display the frames where the sprite is turned off. Basically, it's not running at 60fps in those cases.

Soleiyu · Feb 18, 2015

Thanks for the clarification. Alas, my knowledge of technical aspects is quite limited so please bear with my ignorant assumptions (GAH! I just hope I am not miswording things too often...) .
A pity to hear about the frameskip. It disrupts gameplay a lot.

I just remembered another one:

Super Tetris 2 + Bombliss (Super Famicom) : Two-in-one cart - I think it gives a black screen past the "BPS" logo. Odd, considering these are just puzzlers.

SLiV3R · Feb 18, 2015

LumInvader said:
Unless you're referring specifically to the inferior PSP 1000, I completely disagree.

The PSP d-pad was fixed with the 2000 and the ghosting it had was minimized (but not eliminated). The standard buttons work fine. They use the same quality rubber contacts that are used with Playstation controllers. The 3DS uses mechanical buttons, which are meant to improve button longevity, not comfort. They work great for everything except the d-pad, as the tactile feedback prevents smooth circular d-pad movement. It's also MUCH smaller than the PSP's d-pad, which can be an issue for someone with large hands or when playing long sessions.

The screen quality argument is a mixed bag, but mostly favors the 3DS. The 3DS colors look extremely muddy next to the PSP and lacks it's 480 x 272 output, but pretty much beats the PSP in most other categories. Superior size (XL), superior scanlines, and virtually no ghosting.

Ghosting is only an issue on the PSP 2000 for games that don't reach 60 fps, which shouldn't be a problem with SNES titles since most play at full speed. With regard to SNES emulation, blarg's sound is unmatched. On the other hand, s9xtylmecm's compatibility rate is extremely high. ~96% of the games I've tested play with at least 1 frameskip, while ~83% play full speed. That's a fully mature SNES9x port, whereas blarg remains in an alpha state.

Having said that, I'm interested in the 3DS because it's SNES emulation has the potential to blow the PSP's out of the water. Potential being the key word here. Once reached, the huge screen, scanlines, and amazing sound should more than make up for it's deficiencies.

If I were happy about psp snes emulation I wouldn't bother about snes on the 3ds. For me the the little details matters. And I don't get the the authentic feel that I want from psp Emulation.

Homebrew blargSnes -- SNES emulator for the 3DS (WIP)

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