Emulators VS actual hardware

jalaneme · Feb 24, 2014

Catastrophic said:
N64 emulation is still quite flawed, which is why I got myself an Everdrive 64. Most PAL N64s are capable of outputting PAL60 video without mods. Some earlier NTSC models and only the French PAL model can be modded to output RGB as well.

i wouldn't say that, project 64 emulates quite well all the games played on it, the flashcart is expensive too.

bobmcjr said:
Just did a comparison between PS3 RetroArch SNES and an actual SNES on an LED TV. While I understand that the actual hardware is as accurate as it gets and all that, it looks terrible on a modern TV. A combination of visual noise, interlacing issues, and deformed pixels make hardware in this case inferior. If you can get a proper CRT/video filtering boxes I guess the original hardware might look OK but in my opinion all that effort isn't worth it.

there are tons of filters to make the image much more sharper, i find that on original hardware the colours looked washed out and grainy, nes games don't look as sharp and look blurry, but with all the emulator settings you can make a nes game look as good as a "hd remake" (that's pushing it a bit but that's just a comparison lol)

Foxi4 · Feb 24, 2014

jalaneme said:
i wouldn't say that, project 64 emulates quite well all the games played on it, the flashcart is expensive too.

Some people are fine with paying big bucks for the genuine experience.

there are tons of filters to make the image much more sharper, i find that on original hardware the colours looked washed out and grainy, nes games don't look as sharp and look blurry, but with all the emulator settings you can make a nes game look as good as a "hd remake" (that's pushing it a bit but that's just a comparison lol)

...meaning "arse" and "not as intended".

I used to occasionally use filters when playing SNES games to give them a nice look... but then I grew up, because you're only 13 once in your life, and I realized that they look perfectly fine in their original form. In fact, that's the whole point - it gives them the retro feel. If the colours on-screen were washed-out then perhaps they were meant to look that way or there was some problem with your setup - maybe the cables were poor, maybe the TV's settings weren't just right etc.

RodrigoDavy · Feb 24, 2014

Although people consider snes9x good enough I have to wonder. I played Pilotwings in the snes9x and found it too difficult. Years later I played on an actual snes and the game seemed more playable. The controls were far more responsive and missions less impossible. I think it's more than input lag, you see, in the game demo mode when running in snes9x the computer controlled plane will crash and the game will glitch and reset while in the snes the plane succesfully lands.

jalaneme said:
i wouldn't say that, project 64 emulates quite well all the games played on it, the flashcart is expensive too.

Only the more popular games work well. Try playing something less popular and you'll see lots of glitches many of them making games entirely unplayable.

the_randomizer · Feb 24, 2014

Snes games were not meant for 1920 x 1080 TVs, Snes games were at best, 256 x 244 or 240p, and it ain't pretty when scaled by newer TVs, unless you have an external device that scales it properly.

matpower · Feb 24, 2014

I refuse to use filters, it takes the retro experience IMO.
I prefer to take a while and configure my TV/PC to make it look like the real deal on an older TV.

overdriver · Jun 4, 2014

this is great thread. only thing I want to add is.. If you take an example of playing Super Mario World: playing on real console gives you input lag-free control.
With any SNES emulator(including Wii-vc, Wii-Snes9X, all PC emu(BSNES, etc)) has enough input delay. I didn't notice this until I play Super Mario world in real SNES. It does not matter for some other games like RPG, or slow face game.but it matters the most with action games like SMW.
because of this.. I am digging info regarding groovyMAME(FYI)

DSAndi · Jun 11, 2014

I prefer mostly Emulators now. Old hardware will be faulty some day or you cant connect it to some other needed device or just look bad on new big screen.
I still have a lot retro consoles but most time i prfer to play the games on my PC.
Most of the time they look better on PC. In some cases you can also enhance the picture quality with a PC means the PC will do a higher resolution of the game that the actual hardware is not capable of ( like PSX).
Or antialaising improves some N64 games.
The only thing i do sometimes is to get me adaptors for Joypads from the old hardware. Most of em are obsolent but in some cases original joypads/sticks are better to control the old games.
I only use actual hardware if i cant emulate the game well on PC.
Its also a space problem, all that old hardware uses up a lot space.

javanni9972 · Jul 8, 2014

I prefer the actual hardware then an emulator but don't get me wrong I like playing games on an emulator but its just not what I prefer. But a lot of people agree with me especially if you like to collect them here are some up's and downs about hardware over emulation:

Good:
No lag
Multiplayer
Great for collecting
Accessories ( zappers,cheat devices,rumble pack,ect.)
Better experience

Bad:
Costs a lot
Can get roms right away while you most of the time have to order online and wait
Instant cheats available on emulators
Sometimes carts or disks don't work
Hardware can break

So these are my up's and downs of hardware vs. Emulators but no matter what I will still prefer the actual hardware then emulators

Pleng · Jul 11, 2014

Foxi4 said:
Some people are fine with paying big bucks for the genuine experience.
...meaning "arse" and "not as intended". I used to occasionally use filters when playing SNES games to give them a nice look... but then I grew up, because you're only 13 once in your life, and I realized that they look perfectly fine in their original form.

No... no they don't!

Seriously... nobody can look back on the consoles of the past and say "You know the one thing that really hasn't improved with technology? Graphics", can they? Maybe it's just me.... I mean to get that 'total retro' look I'd need to find a TV with an image already burned into it, then emulate a "magic line" of green to cover most of the screen to try and alleviate the burn-in.

When you have the option to make the games from your past look more beautiful why would you turn that down. "Oh that's not how it was supposed to look"... who knows what visual equipment the games developers did or didn't have at their disposal?

Do you also run PSX emulators at their native resolution, for example, just so you can get that retro, jaggy feel... because "that's how it was supposed to look"? Because that wasn't how it was supposed to look.... that's how it had to look because of technical limitations of the time!

WiiCube_2013 · Jul 11, 2014

DinohScene said:
Meh.
Actual hardware wil always beat emulators with one thing.
Nostalgic feeling.

Emulators are great.
I <3 playing GBA/NES/SNES/Megadrive etc etc etc on various consoles/handhelds.
Recently been playing lots of GBA games on me PSP.

But they don't make it to the actual hardware.

Yeah I too been playing SNES/GBA on PSP but it just doesn't feel natural or authentic, still fun though.

Foxi4 · Jul 11, 2014

Pleng said:
No... no they don't!

Seriously... nobody can look back on the consoles of the past and say "You know the one thing that really hasn't improved with technology? Graphics", can they? Maybe it's just me.... I mean to get that 'total retro' look I'd need to find a TV with an image already burned into it, then emulate a "magic line" of green to cover most of the screen to try and alleviate the burn-in.

When you have the option to make the games from your past look more beautiful why would you turn that down. "Oh that's not how it was supposed to look"... who knows what visual equipment the games developers did or didn't have at their disposal?

Do you also run PSX emulators at their native resolution, for example, just so you can get that retro, jaggy feel... because "that's how it was supposed to look"? Because that wasn't how it was supposed to look.... that's how it had to look because of technical limitations of the time!

Filters often wash out the image and make it look like a gloopy mess. They look the way they look because that's the way they were designed - certain effects in old games are *designed* to use the shortcomings of old technology such as pixel bleeding to mix colours or create the illusion of transparency which cannot be recreated in an upscaled HD setting. Unless the game is 3D in which case upping the native resolution can only improve the quality, you can make things worse by meddling in an emulator. That, and it's entirely a matter of taste. To me, emulating with heavy filtering and post-processing makes the games look awful.

Pleng · Jul 12, 2014

Foxi4 said:
Filters often wash out the image and make it look like a gloopy mess. To me, emulating with heavy filtering and post-processing makes the games look awful.

How do filters "wash-out" the image? I've never experienced anything like this. Ever.

They look the way they look because that's the way they were designed - certain effects in old games are *designed* to use the shortcomings of old technology such as pixel bleeding to mix colours or create the illusion of transparency which cannot be recreated in an upscaled HD setting.

Fair enough, so in this case you'd need a CRT TV as well as the original hardware to recreate a crappy transparency effect in a small part of the game, at the cost of clearer, smoother image throughout the entire rest of the game. Seems like a lot of expense and time to go to simply to recreate an effect that really isn't that impressive anyway.

Foxi4 · Jul 12, 2014

Like I said, it's a matter of taste. Rendering 3D at a higher resolution to combat jaggies is one thing, resizing 2D into a populated mess and filtering the shit out of it is another.

elmoemo · Jul 12, 2014

jalaneme said:
i wouldn't say that, project 64 emulates quite well all the games played on it, the flashcart is expensive too.

there are tons of filters to make the image much more sharper, i find that on original hardware the colours looked washed out and grainy, nes games don't look as sharp and look blurry, but with all the emulator settings you can make a nes game look as good as a "hd remake" (that's pushing it a bit but that's just a comparison lol)

Agreed about the emulators being flawed, not all games as some run fine but the games I want to play don't run proper on PC/Xbox/PSP/wii emulators just want to play donkey Kong lol
I have an n64 and really want an ever drive but not at the minute as want a current gen console more lol

Kayot · Jul 12, 2014

I think the point of emulation isn't to get something for free. I think emulation is a way to preserve the past indefinitely. As time goes by, emulators get better and like Higan should strive for a pure accuracy mode. I only collect games for systems with a decent emulator. If there isn't a decent emulator, I only grab a few A titles and never bother preserving the whole archive. Why bother when the hardware WILL disappear in the next hundred years?

SlCKB0Y · Sep 3, 2014

trumpet-205 said:
Also, Higan served two purposes: to emulate system 100% accurately

Well... nothing is 100%

matpower · Sep 3, 2014

SlCKB0Y said:
Well... nothing is 100%

AFAIK in tech, something can be 100%.

emmanu888 · Sep 3, 2014

Although i love playing on the actual hardware, it can take up a lot of space on shelf and in the power sockets. Looking at you old Sega consoles.
Master System, Genesis takes up too much space in the power sockets, Dreamcast and Saturn not so much. Then there's Nintendo with the perfect size for the power cord.
And finally Playstation consoles, fat PS1 and PS2 have the perfect power cord, slim PS1 has the horrid box plug that takes up too much space, slim PS2 has the perfect power supply.

the_randomizer · Sep 3, 2014

I use emulators the sake of convenience and due to lack of shelf space to have my consoles. That, and older consoles look horrible on most modern displays without using expensive scalers.

SlCKB0Y · Sep 4, 2014

matpower said:
AFAIK in tech, something can be 100%.

Not in emulation. Higan is the most accurate software *approximation* of snes hardware we have but it is still not 100% and never can be. Yes I'm being literal and a little pedantic but I hate people using absolutes like always, never, perfect and 100%

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