Games You SHOULDN'T Buy #3 - Pokémon X and Y

Guild McCommunist · Jun 3, 2014

king_leo said:
Do people actually prefer pearl and diamond over B/W? I see a lot of "well at least its not black and white hahahhahahah" but no , "well at least it isn't the shitstorm pearl and diamond was".

Platinum is leagues better but yes. Black and White were dismal. Horrifically story focused, shitty Pokemon, overly drawn out, it was easily the worst Pokemon since Ruby and Sapphire, probably worse even.

Clydefrosch · Jun 3, 2014

Ryukouki said:
In past titles, EV training was considered one of the most mundane jobs, involving the player chasing down thousands of the same creature to boost their creature's values to make them marginally competitive. This process could take dozens of hours for a single Pokémon, which resulted in a maxed out save file for the hardcore player. In Pokémon X and Y, with the introduction of the Super Training mechanic, EV training could be completed in minutes by playing mini games on the touch screen.

Nah man, nah I can't take this serious. EV training took maybe one, two hours at most even back in diamond and pearl. With the introduction of the vs seeker, it went even faster.

The super training on the other hand didn't speed up the process that much either (it certainly wasn't minutes depending on the super shot you had and the values you wanted to train), it just made it more graspable for Joe Casual, who before, just didn't get what EVs were or how they worked.

I guess you're mixing in IV breeding here as well, which is the only thing that could take a considerable amount of time, since it was luck bound and you could only pass on two specific IV's intentionally at most (for the cost of nature not being passed)

Ryukouki said:
It's a shame that males had very little hairstyle options...

...and then taking a few steps back - What makes these titles not a good purchase?

First and foremost - the Pokémon themselves.

The games introduced about 70 new critters to the franchise. The title was introduced on January 8, 2013, with a release of October 12th, 2013. In the ten months that the game had to develop, most of the critters were already introduced by the time the game had been released, through Nintendo Directs or by following the Coro Coro! magazines that released in Japan every month.When release day came around, most of them had already been shown

no, only about half of them had been shown, probably less. We hardly got any evolved forms (besides megas) from the official channels, from those, mainly mega evolutions to my knowledge.

we did, however, get like a week or so of people who acquired/stole early copies and spoiled the rest of the pokemon, story and whatnot before most of us got to play on our own.

edit: also, if in the past games we counted evolutions of old pokemon among the new ones, we ought to count the 29 mega pokemon forms too. most of them certainly change how the pokemon is used enough to be counted here.

Ryukouki said:
A lot of the designs felt unoriginal, but even so, were much better than the Generation V counterparts.

There will never be original designs ever again. We never had a keychain before. It doesn't get more original than that. It was deemed dumb and unoriginal cause its just a keychain. We never had a cool ninja frog before. Not original either cause it was just a frog with ninja stuff.

However, two ball pokemon, two sludge pokemon and diglets line will forever be original cause... we were young back then.

Ryukouki said:
I also felt that Mega Evolutions, while they're a cool gimmick, took away from the evolutions that some Pokémon really needed. For example, Pinsir and Heracross. Competitively, the two are amazing to have, but they could have been given so much more in the form of a permanent evolution. And the idea of only Blaziken getting a Mega Evolution while Sceptile and Swampert are left in the dust really irks me. Hopefully with the release of Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, that gets rectified. Furthermore, the difficulty felt reduced and much easier than previous generations.

Mega Evolutions were a new, albeit limited battle mechanic. People had been whining for ages to have something new, cause nothing ever changed. New battle mechanic. Its too gimmicky. 3D world. Not 3d enough. Inline skates? But we wanted a skateboard D:

Ryukouki said:
Difficulty is always hard to properly talk about in Pokémon titles. They're childrens' games, many say, but these felt a bit dumbed down, even with the Exp. Share item turned off. One stark example is the Elite Four of this generation, who each only held four Pokémon, and gym leaders, who restricted themselves to three Pokémon each. They felt stunted. The culmination of the training felt like a waste as I easily struck them down. Not to mention the Champion was a bit underwhelming, as I used to like struggling against the champion in a rather epic battle. This game, I was spamming the same moves on my Greninja non-stop and stopped the Champion in her tracks within minutes, without using items.

1. Pokemon was never difficult. 4 year olds beat those games.

2. The exp share in this form was great, it was what people wanted it to be, useful. It was also entirely optional.

It gave us two ways to play this game. The first being, like any other pokemon game, you got a team of about 3 main and 3 support/hm pokemon and basically just used them. In which case it never mattered if you had the exp share or not. Your main pokemon, especially your starter, would end up so strong you literally didnt need anything else or give a damn about types. When I was young, I beat Lance using a charizard with ember, flamethrower, fireblast and fire...that whirly one. I used that same charizard to beat everything else, from agathas gengar to blues blastoise.

Or, you could switch out half your team every other town and never have to resort to boring grinds. Which honestly is what I believe the game wanted us to do. Every route gave you new pokemon, there was hardly any repetition. No rattattas or pidgeons on every other outside route. New Pokemon all the time and not just one or two, but a bunch of them, often enough to make two new teams.

The Leader and E4 part is about the only thing I can agree with, they've been dumbed down and should be using more pokemon. It always made sense for the first two or three to not have a full team, but anything after that using only three is dumb. But then, this has been happening forever too. ever since red and blue.

For Gym leaders, just look at what gold and silver offered us. The Jotho-Leaders had 2, 3, 2, 4, 2, 3, 3, 4 pokemon. The kanto ones had more, between 3 (sabrina) and 6 (blue), everyone else using 4 or 5.

Gold and Silvers E4 was weak too, like 10-20 levels weaker than the ones in red and blue. Having 5 weak pokemon made them look more like a threat, using almost a whole team, but didnt really make them any harder (some used doubles too)

The e4s in ruby and diamond were pretty easy too, safe for diamonds champ, the only champ who's felt challenging at all, but mainly due to being very defensively with spiritomb and milotic taking way too many hits and garchomp being almost unstopable if you run into it the very first time.

As for gym leaders, in the ruby gen, three used 2 pokemon, three used 3 pokemon, one used 4 and one used 5. The average for gym leader pokemon has been 3 pokemon for so long already.

Black and White had only one hard fight (if you didnt prepare accordingly or overleveled) and that was the ghetsis one, but also mainly due to his pokemon being both strong in offense and defense and very mixed in type. I know from experience that theres hardly anything more annoying than a game that has such battles from beginning to end. Yes, I too enjoy a bit of voltwhite or bloody platinum once in a while. But having to grind an hour or two for every gym leader ends up being more tedious than enjoyable.

Don't remember your past with rose colored glasses. There was no pokemon game outside of the two gamecube ones, that couldn't be beaten pretty easily by spamming the same move over and over, over the course of a 20-25 hour game (all the games are that short btw, the old ones just had you running around with less obvious hints most of the time)

Ryukouki said:
And since we're talking about the Elite Four here, what happens after beating them?

Way too easy this generation...

Sadly, the answer to this question is not much, assuming we are talking about new content here. There could always be things to do: breeding, completing the Pokédex, competitive battle, but for new content, it felt stark and empty. The post game felt extremely lacking in this game. It's a fact that most Pokémon games that aren't based in the Johto region would have a relatively meager post game, but the 3DS titles felt empty for such a large region and file size. Legendaries were few and far in between to capture, with the mascot legendary, Mewtwo, Zygarde, and one bird that depends on the starter chosen. Also, usually the end game introduces a new city, island, or some other type of location to explore. X and Y introduce Kiloude City, a rather dull city with a dull Battle Tower and by far one of the weirdest Safari Zone variants of the series yet, which forces you to play and actively search for people to get Pokémon that can sometimes only be found here. The post game introduced a few randomly small side quests with Looker, but the story is a bit silly and anticlimactic, like the story itself.

Agreed. The post game was short and lacked. In a way. Red and blue had one dungeon as postgame. gold and silver had a whole region, but that was really more post story than post game. It was also mostly recycled from red and blue.

Ruby and the other one... besides rayquaza? nothing.

I'm not entirely sure about diamond and pearl. they had a tower and that island with the dungeon. and an empty town where nothing happened.

black and white didn't really have a world of postgame either. we had half the world map to explore, but there was nothing interesting to do there. an underwatermaze you needed an online map for, white forest and black city... which where nice to have, but not really special either, unless you did lots of that dream point stuff or something. more empty towns. But at least a bunch more AI trainer battles and a hide and go seek mission.

well, compared to the most recent games, b/w/1/2, yes, x/y didnt have much post game. but in general? were post game what most people wanted? some, but most spent literally 100 times more time playing or preparing for online than they spend playing the single player campaign.

Of course, I want to be clear, I'd rather have a longer game than a shorter one, but I didn't need b/w empty postgame routes to be honest.

Ryukouki said:
Don't make me force myself to play with friends!

Pokémon titles always had a weak storyline. They're meant to be kid friendly and teach very basic lessons. But this one was very dull and just didn't do justice. The storyline turned into the world's ending from a crystal laser looking device that would go off unless the player stopped Team Flare. But hold on, I have to take a picture of myself in front of the doomsday device to complete my photo album. Selfie, anyone? Lysandre himself also felt like a flamboyant villain. He reminds me of Zhang He from Dynasty Warriors. He gets this cool backpack with cyborg arms coming out of it, but it doesn't even do anything. It was a terrible letdown. The story pace is also jarring, with several hours of space between the first two gyms, followed by a huge surge of gym leaders from there on. If this game needed to learn something, it was that consistency matters,

In that case, you better revisit the old games because, from the point of view of a 20something year old experienced gamer, all these stories were weak and dull.

I got to give it a point though, it seemingly took itself more serious than other games, probably because it was about the fate of the world and had that genocidal element that just wouldn't want to be downplayed. Which is a bad idea if the plot and its protagonists aren't easily taken serious.

Lysandre being flamboyant... well. Yeah. But its not that much worse than a supposed mafia syndicate leader being put down by a boy and changing his ways just like that, a pirate and some sun fan who's way to pale to be a fan of the sun, a psychotic maniac and an abusive father and his freak adoptive son.

Ryukouki said:
which brings me to my next point: the 3D visuals being inconsistent most of the time.

The 3D effect for the title was not fully enabled for many areas of the game. In battle, it caused frame rates to drop noticeably. In the over world, the 3D effect was only used in a few areas, like caves or notable locations in the Kalos region. When I played a title like Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies, the 3D was there throughout. I also won't forget to mention that only one Pokémon of almost 800 got voice acting. Pikachu may be the series mascot, but come on, give the others a similar treatment. It felt unfinished, like a lot of the other side characters the game forces upon the player.

thats a legitimate complain. though if I was nintendo/gamefreak and was aware of how little 3D is used, I wouldn't even have bothered with stereoscopic 3d at all.

Then again, most 3d games get framerate and effect trouble, once you turn on stereoscopic 3d. like heroes of ruin, kingdom hearts, that lego undercover game. pheonix wright or professor layton obviously has less trouble in that aspect.

as for the voice acting... voices arent canon, pokemon saying their names was only for the anime and didnt really make sense. but kids learned the names of the pokemon better which caused sales to skyrocket. pikachu saying pikachu was pretty unneeded for the game though. I would however support a recast of all 'voices' to sound like they come from actual creatures. like birds doing birdcalls, dogs barking or snarling and bears growling etc.

Ryukouki said:
Pokémon X and Y gives the player a few child friends to play with. They are quite possibly the worst written characters of the game, with almost no trace of ambition, save for the rival male/female counterpart of the player. Their plot lines felt shoehorned in, and it turns out by the end of the fun, they're out not doing much. I get that the series wanted to make the game social for the player, but including scenes of "dating" on a castle and watching fireworks was too mundane and kind of awkward when the butler gives the Technical Machine for Protect.

i didnt like the friends either, but then, I didnt like any rival/friend character ever since pearl.

Ryukouki said:
Hurry up and get to the point already!

Pokémon X and Y tried too hard to be something that catered to too many fans. It did things right with the visuals, social play, easier breeding process and character customization, but it was also too easy by a Pokémon game standard, and the aspect of adding social features to the game crept in and created forced relationships with players that had little significance to the overall plot of the game. That, combined with inconsistency in the visuals, lack of new Pokémon, a severe lack of post game content, and rather bland music made a title that brought forth the franchise a little bit but took some steps backward. Having said that, I will add Pokémon X and Y to the list of Games You SHOULDN'T Buy.

why do you call it social play? you mean the online mode of battling and training, right? a thing that didnt get the praise it should get in your review. its so much better than what the ds games offered in online play and if anyone played these games for the battle part, then the whole review should be read much more positively:
the story is short, everything regarding competitive battles is easier and faster now, if you play competitively, this game is pretty much made for you specifically.

as i argued, its not easier than any other pokemon game, but it can be made less hassle than any other pokemon game by using exp share and never switching pokemon.

i have no idea what you mean with forced relationships. its npcs in a game. they're never that important to the plot.

if by inconsistent visuals you mean no 3d in overworld, alright, but again, who uses the 3d effect that much? is that really a dealbreaker?

and bland music? it doesnt get more subjective than music. its music fitting for a pokemon game and its good quality tunes.

so yeah. obviously, you don't lie about the things you complain about. they're worth of being complained about. but they're far from being deal breakers whatsoever. at the heart of what these games wanted to be ever since the gameboy times, social games about monster battles, X and Y excel on a level never before seen in the series.

Deleted User · Jun 3, 2014

actually I kind of agree
I loved the game as I started playing it, but after like the 4th or 5th gym the rest of the game feels rushed... and it really was

Game Freak wanted to delay it to make things properly and implement a system in which you would be able to talk to pokémon, not only pet them, buuut it was going to push the game for a 2014 release
Nintendo didn't like the idea, so they didn't have a lot of time

it's especially noticeable at the victory road, since all of the game had super diverse pokemons in places and at victory roads I find mostly gravelers
I really expected a Pokemon Z would come and fix it all and add that talking pokemon system, so seeing the Ruby and Sapphire announcements was kind of a disappointment

I expect even less from the Ruby and Sapphire remakes, they have only 1 year to redo it and the original games were terrible in the first place ( they really got me and some friends off pokémon until platinum came around )

Clydefrosch · Jun 3, 2014

KooPako said:
actually I kind of agree

it's especially noticeable at the victory road, since all of the game had super diverse pokemons in places and at victory roads I find mostly gravelers

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Victory_Road_(Kalos)#Pok.C3.A9mon

gravlers and gurrdurr are easily the most common pokemon (that was true for quite a few victory roads so far), but victory road has never been as diversely populated as in this game

well alright, maybe in bw2... that games victory road was pretty long and diverse too, with water, grasslands and caves mixed

Black-Ice · Jun 3, 2014

This thread is absolute poppycock and I'm completely offended by its existence
I haven't spent the time to read it, nor shall I

I havent read any of Guild's comments but I'll just jump the gun and be offended by those too

*insert hurt Black-Ice comments here*

One thing I will comment on though:
You all should have seen the "lack of post game content" coming
The 1st installments of every series lack in post game content, Red/Blue, Ruby/sapphire, Diamond/Peal, Black/White
The only 1st installment of a gen that didnt was Gold and Silver.
Yellow, Emerald, Platinum and BW2 all expanded hugely upon the predecessors and the next gen 6 game will do the same.
Not saying this is a good sales strategy but...
Complaining about lack of content in XY is like complaining about how Ultra Street Fighter 4 has more content than Street Fighter 4, you know it's gonna happen.

Vipera · Jun 3, 2014

Pokémon X felt like the closest thing to an RPG the main pokémon franchise has ever made.
I don't know about you, but in pokémon games I've ALWAYS trained the starter, period. And I still won everywhere. No kidding. I did with my Charizard, my Blaziken, my Infernape and with Black I tried a different approach and it was so boring I quickly came back to focus on Servine or whatever its last evolution was called.
At least with this Pokémon X/Y thing I can see that they tried to expand the game pretty much everywhere. They cut off the 10 years-old bullshit and fixed various things like walking diagonally. I still wish they'd quit the stupid "we are a terrorism team that will rule the world! Oh fuck your pikachu kicked our ass, nevermind", which was acceptable in the first generation, silly in the second, crazy in the third and absolutely retarded from the 4th (a church where pokémon and humans can marry? Wat?).
I am still playing this game, and I hate that I had to grow up and play so many other games because they destroyed the charm I felt with them. If I still was 14, by now I'd have a message stuck on my 3DS screen begging me to turn off the console now to make my eyeballs stop bleeding. But no, there is nothing that makes me say "30 minutes more". Hell, there is nothing that makes me stay 5 minutes longer. My passion all moved to a different genre of pokémon games that I'm quite sure will never see the light of another title again, while the big, fat tits of this serie will keep being squished to death.
But, unlike Black, I haven't thrown away the game yet. I still feel like I want to complete the game. I don't know if it's more of a forced tribute to my inner child or the constant throwing of stuff from the game while screaming "I AM REVOLUTIONARY! I AM REVOLUTIONARY!" works just a little bit. Maybe I should wait to finish the game to say anything about it, but eh.

Bottomline: the game smells like brand new, so brand new that passed from "Hahaha what?" genre to "mediocre RPG". That, or I am growing up. Sad.

EDIT: Relevant?

Jerret Douglass · Jun 3, 2014

Really hate when people talk about the difficulty and exp. share in X and Y. Like in R/B you could solo the game with your starter, in G/S I solo'd the game with a Raticate, R/S I only used my Blaziken, and in D/P I used my Infernape. I do have to agree with you that X and Y tried to cater to fans nostalgia though. It really bother me how you received a Kanto starter and how Charizard (one of my least favorite Pokemon and over hyped for no damn reason) got two megas, same with Mewtwo.

Ryukouki · Jun 3, 2014

Vipera said:
*snip*

I always just trained my starter as well. Seemed like a better thing to do. I definitely think this one also had caterings to their older fans though, with the Kanto starter and the bringing back of Mewtwo. It feels like a brand new title, yes, but honestly...? It's not really an outstanding game in terms of the franchise, for me. As a standalone 3DS title, it's rocking boats and still scoring cash. It's doing phenomenally. I'm just saying that this game needed more work. And I think that more work would have made it a much more impressive title, because all of the mistakes they made were mistakes that could be avoided.

Sterling · Jun 3, 2014

Ryukouki said:
It's not really an outstanding game in terms of the franchise, for me.

And that's the issue with this article. It's entitled, "Games You Shouldn't Buy". We all expected a column that was objective, not opinionated. That's the problem with doing games like Pokemon, it has its share of problems but it definitely is worth buying. As the first game in the series that makes the transition to full 3D environments, it practically showcases what the 3DS can do.

Ryukouki · Jun 3, 2014

Sterling said:
And that's the issue with this article. It's entitled, "Games You Shouldn't Buy". We all expected a column that was objective, not opinionated. That's the problem with doing games like Pokemon, it has its share of problems but it definitely is worth buying. As the first game in the series that makes the transition to full 3D environments, it practically showcases what the 3DS can do.

Yeah, I hear you. Might start up a dissenting opinions column sometime soon...

Sterling · Jun 3, 2014

Ryukouki said:
Yeah, I hear you. Might start up a dissenting opinions column sometime soon...

That's a good idea. No more false advertising.

Ryukouki · Jun 3, 2014

Sterling said:
That's a good idea. No more false advertising.

Ah, there's a bit of a learning curve here. Can't please absolutely everybody.

Clydefrosch · Jun 3, 2014

the problem with this is, that the first two 'games you shouldn't buy' seemed to be much more objective, but this one is simply taking a good game and blowing a few small complaining points out of proportion, which in part were very subjective, like the music or the npc friends not being plot drivers, and saying that makes it a bad decision to buy.
and worst of all, completely ignoring how the most important parts of the franchise, its soul, its cornerstones, battling, collecting and trading, have never been better or more accessible.

again, the things you talk about are mentionable, but they're more of a reason to give the game 8 out of 10 points, instead of putting it on the same level as ninja gaiden 3.

Ryukouki · Jun 3, 2014

Clydefrosch said:
the problem with this is, that the first two 'games you shouldn't buy' seemed to be much more objective, but this one is simply taking a good game and blowing a few small complaining points out of proportion, which in part were very subjective, like the music or the npc friends not being plot drivers, and saying that makes it a bad decision to buy.
and worst of all, completely ignoring how the most important parts of the franchise, its soul, its cornerstones, battling, collecting and trading, have never been better or more accessible.

again, the things you talk about are mentionable, but they're more of a reason to give the game 8 out of 10 points, instead of putting it on the same level as ninja gaiden 3.

Again, I hear where you guys are coming from. I kinda want to test the waters a bit more and find out exactly where to draw that line - the line where the commentary stops really focusing on the game itself and instead goes to a better thread placement. There's no pleasing everyone in this case. Some people love the idea of seeing this game here, and some people hate it. I'm going to be weighing those alternatives in the coming articles so that it gets people talking. Talking is important. I value this feedback, I really do. It's a great experiment for me. I'm working on creating a column of sorts that deals with games like this. Give me time!

Pedeadstrian · Jun 3, 2014

Ryukouki said:
But you're going to pick up Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, and then stop, right?

Yes, but this time I won't pay for it. *cough Gateway cough*

TripleSMoon · Jun 3, 2014

Black-Ice said:
You all should have seen the "lack of post game content" coming
The 1st installments of every series lack in post game content, Red/Blue, Ruby/sapphire, Diamond/Peal, Black/White
The only 1st installment of a gen that didnt was Gold and Silver.
Yellow, Emerald, Platinum and BW2 all expanded hugely upon the predecessors and the next gen 6 game will do the same.
Not saying this is a good sales strategy but...
Complaining about lack of content in XY is like complaining about how Ultra Street Fighter 4 has more content than Street Fighter 4, you know it's gonna happen.

How did Yellow expand upon Red and Blue, post-game-wise? The only differences I noticed were the tweaks meant to make homage to the TV show (replacing generic Rockets with Jessie and James, changing certain gym leaders' Pokemon team, etc). I don't remember there being any difference in the post-game.

Sterling said:
And that's the issue with this article. It's entitled, "Games You Shouldn't Buy". We all expected a column that was objective, not opinionated. That's the problem with doing games like Pokemon, it has its share of problems but it definitely is worth buying. As the first game in the series that makes the transition to full 3D environments, it practically showcases what the 3DS can do.

Um... it's a column about what games are bad, dude. That's a subjective... subject by it's very nature. You can't whine about the OP being opinionated, and then make claims about the game "definitely" being worth buying, as if your opinion is somehow factual compared to his.

Ryukouki thinks a game that you like isn't worth it, boohoo. Get over it. :rolleyes:

Hyperstar96 · Jun 3, 2014

Snailface said:
Pokemon is pretty much like a sports game, you keep buying every year to get roster updates. 70 new players isn't a bad deal for $40, right?

Have you ever actually played a Pokemon game?

Snailface · Jun 3, 2014

Hyperstar96 said:
Have you ever actually played a Pokemon game?

I was just joking along with the haters.
I'm not an obsessive, but I think its a good series.

Sterling · Jun 3, 2014

xwatchmanx said:
Um... it's a column about what games are bad, dude. That's a subjective... subject by it's very nature. You can't whine about the OP being opinionated, and then make claims about the game "definitely" being worth buying, as if your opinion is somehow factual compared to his.

LOL, no. I'm sorry, but that's not how this thing was advertised. You can look at a game a see where it was badly made, where corners were cut and where promises were broken. That's the criteria that determines a game that's a waste of money. I'm sorry, but X and Y did what they advertised very well. The mechanics were polished and it's beautiful all around. Sure, it could have been optimized better, but this game pushed the hardware quite a bit, so it deserves a little slack on that. Look at the Angry Video Game Nerd for the kind of analysis this column is expected to perform. "Games You Shouldn't Buy" asserts that the bad outweighs the good, and X and Y, all main Pokemon games for that matter, are not bad games by any means of the phrase.

And yes, I can call out the OP for false advertisement as other people have. Just as you can call me out for "whine". Cry more Watchy.

Demonbart · Jun 3, 2014

Sterling said:
As the first game in the series that makes the transition to full 3D environments, it practically showcases what the 3DS can do.

Except it doesn't. it shows what little percentage of the 3DS's power Game Freak can actually use.
Game Freak can't convince me this game couldn't have run 60 fps in 3D with better optimization when there's games like Resident Evil Revelations out there with console level graphics and real-time gameplay that only have some framerate lag while loading.
Overall I loved X and Y while playing through them, but looking back at them they're two of the weakest Pokémon titles in terms of just about everything that isn't ambience.

Games You SHOULDN'T Buy #3 - Pokémon X and Y

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