Piracy: Common Myths

Panzer Tacticer · Jul 7, 2013

Hmm regarding the OP, I'll let ya know if I ever actually get anything tangibly worth anything from winning an internet debate.

When it comes to law, really, the only thing that actually matters, is, could you prevent yourself from being put in a jail cell regardless of your thoughts on what you did or didn't do and your claims of what it was or wasn't? Because, really, if downloading is putting your ass on the line, literally (because in jail you might really need to worry about your ass, or rather you might be wanting to know if anyone else wishes to use it), then the point might be moot.

Hey I can spout all sorts of interesting facts about the Canadian legal code, but, will it keep me out of jail?
Because it is not always about who is right and who is wrong, but, were you able to win your case in court?

You live in a world where the rich routinely abuse the poor, and the powerful routinely abuse the weak.
Your rights routinely don't mean squat to those that can ignore them.

I download because I can, not because it is right or wrong.
I am also not in a desperate need to have anyone agree with me.
My day will go fine regardless.

EzekielRage · Jul 7, 2013

I REALLY have to jump in on this. In Austria, and yes we are WIPO members but still, the law explicitly states that download is legal and only upload is illegal. That is because we have a special tax on Harddrives that goes towards copyright holders.

What I'm trying to say here is that maybe that would be a good idea in general? If other countries would do the same, many piracy problems would become nonexistant?

Panzer Tacticer · Jul 7, 2013

The key to your comment is it is relevant to your nation's legal code.

Too often too many make posts too specific to a nation's own laws.

In Canada, and unless this has changed and no one thought to tell me, a end user agreement is void if I was not permitted to read it before cash changed hands. What that means, is all the things we agree to while installing whatever at home, that we clicked on just to get the thing installed, well they have no strength, as they were voided the moment I paid for it before being able to read the agreement.

But that's Canada, and it might not do you any good for me to mention it.

We also have the right to make a back up copy (last time I checked) even if the doing so breaks a program meant specifically to deny that function. It's why I can legally use software some nations call illegal as the use of it in Canada is not.

We have a tax on our blank media. It is to counter act the supposed loses stemming from copying. I suppose the MPAA and the RIAA are just not satisfied with the sum of cash they get from this taxation. But we have all pretty much realized the people from those two groups are mentally incapable of that level of satisfaction.

I run a video and in the beginning it blathers about the FBI. All fine and dandy if you are on US soil I suppose. In Canada the FBI has no value. Now OUR equal of the FBI I have to care about.

We all know the secret to doing business and doing it well, is to master the art and not spend all sorts of effort crying for the good ole days of the 20th century.
I enjoy paying Netflix 8 bucks a month for my TV shows. I'd gladly give Slitherine Group 10 bucks a month for unfettered access to all their wargames. Would you pay 15 bucks a month to Sony to just play any game they have on a PS4? and never need to buy a disk at all?

EzekielRage · Jul 7, 2013

No I wouldn't because I LOVE discs, I lvoe physical media, I RARELY buy digital software and when I do it is only because there is no physical version of the game. But I would pay 8 bucks a month for netflix or something like that, unfortunately there is no such thing where I live

the_randomizer · Jul 7, 2013

EzekielRage said:
No I wouldn't because I LOVE discs, I lvoe physical media, I RARELY buy digital software and when I do it is only because there is no physical version of the game. But I would pay 8 bucks a month for netflix or something like that, unfortunately there is no such thing where I live

A proxy or VPN might help

EzekielRage · Jul 7, 2013

then whats the sense of paying? this i just like piracy again...

Panzer Tacticer · Jul 7, 2013

It's just a disk though. The things are like 20 cents at best. I can't even fathom wanting a computer on sale today that didn't have a blueray drive and likely it would be a blueray burner drive. As it goes, my when it was bought seriously fantastic dvd burner drive is still running. The eject function is shot though. But the thing is, I can make a disk with my eyes closed (well not literally). But I would likely not let a person touch my computer to begin with if they knew so little they couldn't master the skill needed to burn data to a disk.

But it's just a disk.

In the last 3 years, all of my wargames have been digital downloads, and I feel sort of sad for those of the wargaming community that still gladly and willingly pay the 10 dollar fee to have the game mailed to them on a disk in a disk case with a pointless install manual thrown in. 10 bucks what a waste. In 5 games, you have thrown away the equal of a free 6th game.

The thing is though we need that file primarily to do an install. So physical disk, or digital download, it's all about the install process.

Now with Netflix, I don't need the disk, hey I have hundreds even thousands of dvds of movies documentaries, and anime still but, it's more fun to just turn on the device and connect to Netflix instead. I can play it here or at a coffee shop wherever.

My idea of an ideal game world, is an account, and access to all the games, and no install required, you just select the game, and you play from where you left off and the company gets to do all the data storing. No scratched disks.

I read on Ars Technica, that this was what MS was thinking about with the X-Box One, a desire to eliminate the need for the media, but, what they did wrong, was they forgot to have a replacement already waiting. Having billions of bucks does not ensure commonsense or smarts clearly. I would not mind anything that puts all my dollars in the hands of the dude(s) that actually make the games. I really don't really care if Gamestop becomes as dead as Blockbuster.

If there was nothing to steal (you may insert any term that floats your boat), there would be nothing to protect. They would not need intrusive annoying programming if they had nothing to worry about. The industry is sloooooow to learn and slow to adjust, but, it's fairly plain, Netflix is working, and Steam too is working (even though I am no big fan of how Steam functions in some cases).

The average gamer would likely gladly sign up to spend 15 bucks on Sony and 15 bucks a month on MS games, if it meant they need only turn on the device log in and start gaming.

Yes yes yes, I know not everyone has superior broadband. Well shit, the starving in Africa are not preventing me from eating eh, why should people with shitty internet be ruining the internet for those that have good services? I sympathize with those that don't have decently priced and decently running internet. Hey you likely could always move eh.

I have downloaded so little in the last 3 years, I have practically forgotten how to do it

Probably missed some games, a few good documentaries and some movies, but, I have not regretted my Netflix.
I also turfed cable service. Why pay 65 bucks a month to be told what I could watch and when eh?
That is to some extent what we have with games currently. Your selection process is not ideal and the method of delivery sucks when you think about it.
Too often too much of too many games is screwed up by limitations on how the product is sold.
I buy a game on Googleplay, and it allows me to send it to all of my Android devices. Now that is amusing.

I would like to see Sony and MS and Nintendo stop trying to beat each other, and just get together and sell us ONE machine. Just think, no exclusives all the games on one machine. Now that would be cool. Even more cool, if you only needed one service to play it all. Heck I'd pay for that.

I download because I can. And the companies cry and whine, because it seems it's all they can do.
I would love to stand up at E3 and publicly tell all three to get their fucking asses in a single room, and figure out a single machine so that E3 was only about what new games were coming and not about the competition between the hard ware.

supercarte · Jul 10, 2013

The real pirates are the distributors that monopolize the copyrights.

Rydian said:
This old game is no longer being sold, so it's out of copyright and it's fine to download.

Copyright on modern (1978 and newer) works lasts 70 years past the author's death, ~~or 95-120 years for an anonymous work~~. Whether it's still sold or not has no bearing on this.

Yes but in this case the author can not claim a prejudice.

FAST6191 · Jul 10, 2013

supercarte said:
The real pirates are the distributors that monopolize the copyrights.

Yes but in this case the author can not claim a prejudice.

But they could republish, release a remastered, release an updated edition.... tomorrow and that is what those lengths/terms are supposed to allow for. You or I might have misgivings on the matter and it might lead to a great work being unavailable down the line but that is a different discussion.

supercarte · Jul 13, 2013

The damage is already based on suppositions but not yet on fiction. The trial did not take place with a crystal ball. (thankfully)

the_randomizer · Jul 13, 2013

People are going to pirate irrespective of the laws in the countries they live in. Some people are just apathetic and simply won't stop to pirate.

steveroo · Aug 14, 2013

I think roms should be similar mp3s on itunes. Download what you want and developers charge $1-5 for each rom.

BrightNeko · Aug 29, 2013

Rydian said:
It's okay to download something if I already have a real copy.
A myth commonly proposed by ROM/ISO sites, this is false as well. Nowhere do any of the laws or regulations add "unless you already have a copy". The concept of a single backup in "fair use" is commonly-mentioned, but this revolves around you creating your own copy, downloading somebody else's copy is taking part in "distribution", which is still illegal (and the main focus of copyright law).

I guess I didn't do enough research, I thought this was actually the case. Back when I owned a flash cart I would download copies of games I didn't want to open and play them that way. Very much the same for wii and PSP games. Happy I read the first post of the thread at least. However does this apply to patches, hacks, or fixes? Does altering the copy you make in anyway turn it into someone else's copy or work? I ask this because of another bullet a little bit later, and because I adore fan translations and hacks.

Sorry if it has been brought up before, I'm reading the rest of the thread now to check. Wanted to ask though while it was still in my head properly.

-edit-
so skimmed the thread to page 6 or so and surprised no one brought up how companies could use piracy as a good thing, or the real double edge-ness of the entire thing. With most of the discussion sticking to the legal parts of it and questions like my own. Probably better that way.

Although looking through the thread I'm curious now how this effects places that let you play roms online. Places like Nintendo8, Snessy, or gbemul that openly have the roms up to play but not download. Also sorry if I can't even talk about those, I'll remove them from the post if needed.

Sliter · Jun 17, 2015

Rydian said:
Piracy causes job loss.

atually, my family had and vidoe rental store service, when pirated movies come cheaper and easy to find.... maaan dark times for us D: well it's kinda a personal case but a techically all movie rental stores closed the doors, and then comes services like netflix to try save the glory of legit movies for a nice price

Rydian said:
Piracy kills game systems.
There is no correlation between systems that fail (or succeed) and piracy. Multiple systems have failed terribly without any piracy in their lifetime (Virtual Boy, N-Gage, CD-i), while other systems that had piracy enabled for the majority of their lifetime ended up being some of the top sellers of their generation (PS1, Wii, GBA, DS, etc.)

actually here in Brazil PS2 was a big success, more than gamecube because it was very easily modable to run pirates, there also a joke around here that retail ps1-ps2 games does not exist xD

LightyKD · Jul 10, 2015

Has anyone read this article yet? I thought it was decent...

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/07/why-people-pirate-video-games/

endoverend · Aug 4, 2015

I have a question about this part of the article:

Rydian said:
I bought the disc/cart/game, so I can do whatever I want with the software on it!
Sadly, false as well. In the majority of cases, what you have bought is a physical object containing the information and a license to use that single copy of the information, which is different from owning the object outright

So does this mean that mods that modify game files are actually illegal?

Sliter · Aug 4, 2015

endoverend said:
I have a question about this part of the article:

So does this mean that mods that modify game files are actually illegal?

yeah actuallt you own the game like permision to pay it a sit is, not to hack or mod ... like if you wnat toe xtract that awesome track and add to ypur playlist , t's illegal,the legal way was hearing it ingame from the consle :v
this is simples, you are ony allowed to play it the max you can explore are bugs and cheats, tranfering the game file for something else you started a illegal operation :v

ferofax · Sep 11, 2015

endoverend said:
I have a question about this part of the article:

So does this mean that mods that modify game files are actually illegal?

Read the End User License Agreement that most games have. Even console and handheld games have EULAs, but you'll probably have to go to their website to find it. Anyways, when you bought the game, you agreed to that EULA. Breaking the terms of the EULA would be like breaking the terms of a contract.

the_randomizer · Sep 11, 2015

ferofax said:
Read the End User License Agreement that most games have. Even console and handheld games have EULAs, but you'll probably have to go to their website to find it. Anyways, when you bought the game, you agreed to that EULA. Breaking the terms of the EULA would be like breaking the terms of a contract.

And yet most people who do don't give a damn, really.

ferofax · Sep 11, 2015

the_randomizer said:
And yet most people who do don't give a damn, really.

True. Nobody even reads the damn thing, other than a rare miniscule amount of people that get turned on by legal jargon or big wall of texts. Be interesting if anybody actually used the EULA against a pirate.

Piracy: Common Myths

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