PC Games section full of warez

tueidj · Sep 22, 2012

It seems a lot of the games in the PC section are full commercial titles (warez), many of which are still being sold online at various sites. For example:
Alone in the Dark 1 & 2 (GoG.com)
Star Control II (GoG.com)
Blood (GoG.com)
Descent 1 & 2 (GoG.com)
Doom 1 (Steam)
Doom 2 (Steam)
Duke3D (GoG.com)

I'm sure there's many more, those are just what I found within a few minutes of looking. Even the games that aren't being sold anywhere today are still copyright and should not be hosted; new "old" games appear on GoG all the time. I suggest the entire section be taken offline until the legality of each individual game is checked.

Foxi4 · Sep 22, 2012

Urza said:
I didn't state nor imply that games could not enter the public domain. I'm speaking to the idea of "abandonware", that because a franchise or game is "old" that it's okay to distribute the copyrighted materials in question.

You're also incorrect in the association of trademarking with this issue. Copyrights and trademark are two very different things, the latter having no relevant here.

To utilize your copyright to the fullest extent, you have to renew the related trademark periodically as means of assessing ownership of intellectual property. Of course, you still own the intellectual property if you don't, however it causes confusion and is generally not a welcome scenario. Perhaps I'm using the wrong legal term here, but I'm referring to a legal document stating ownership of an IP which has to be renewed from time to time.

the_randomizer · Sep 22, 2012

Urza said:
Foxi4 said:

Urza said:

The term "abandonware" has no legal meaning.

You are uploading copyrighted files that you hope nobody will file complaints about since they're old. No different from ROM dumps of console games.

Click to expand...

Technically incorrect. Games can enter the Public Domain sector via various channels - for example, if their trademark expires and is no longer updated, the original owners of the trademark die, so nobody can file claims, the publishing rights expire or the original owners of the trademark declare the games Public Domain, which has happened before.

An example of that is the entire line of official Vectrex games which is now Public Domain, declared so by Jay Smith, the owner of the trademark.

Click to expand...

I didn't state nor imply that games could not enter the public domain. I'm speaking to the idea of "abandonware": that because a franchise or game is "old" that it's okay to distribute the copyrighted materials in question.

You're also incorrect in the association of trademarking with this issue. Copyrights and trademark are two very different things, the latter having little relevance here. Copyrights (in the US and many other countries) will not expire on their own for many decades barring the holder explicitly releases them.

Copyrights last upwards of 75 years last I checked. So if a game in 1985 was copyrighted, it would expire in 2060.

Foxi4 · Sep 22, 2012

the_randomizer said:
Copyrights last upwards of 75 years last I checked. So if a game in 1985 was copyrighted, it would expire in 2060.

Subject to geoterritorial issues. Where I live, it's 40 years since the last copyright and/or trademark renewal.

tueidj · Sep 22, 2012

Guild McCommunist said:
I think legally we need to be referring to freeware, not abandonware. And out of that list I think the only freeware game is Star Control II.

The ones I listed were only examples, I didn't do a thorough search. I also did skip a few titles that I know are freeware (Beneath a Steel Sky, Cave Story) but they are certainly the minority which is why I suggested taking everything down until they are all examined more closely.

Urza · Sep 22, 2012

Foxi4 said:
Urza said:

I didn't state nor imply that games could not enter the public domain. I'm speaking to the idea of "abandonware", that because a franchise or game is "old" that it's okay to distribute the copyrighted materials in question.

You're also incorrect in the association of trademarking with this issue. Copyrights and trademark are two very different things, the latter having no relevant here.

Click to expand...

To utilize your copyright to the fullest extent, you have to renew the related trademark periodically as means of assessing ownership of intellectual property. Of course, you still own the intellectual property if you don't, however it causes confusion and is generally not a welcome scenario. Perhaps I'm using the wrong legal term here, but I'm referring to a legal document stating ownership of an IP which has to be renewed from time to time.

Again, copyrights and trademarks are two different kinds of IP which work differently; just because a trademark lapses or becomes ineffective does not put the copyright of related works into jeopardy.

WiiUBricker · Sep 22, 2012

So hosting old, still sold copyrighted games is ok, but even linking to third-party hosted and not commercially distributed system menu wads, cioses, ioses etc is a no go?

p1ngpong · Sep 22, 2012

Not going into the whole "what is abandonware" debate I have always held the opinion that uploading these sort of files to filetrip is absolutely pointless. People just don't go to filetrip for that sort of stuff first of all and secondly we are crossing into grey areas of legality that we just don't need to venture into. As the OP pointed out most of these games are still being sold on steam and GoG so they are hardly abandoned. I mean, uploading something like Doom? Seriously? How can you even argue that is abandoned? All the files that the OP linked to should just be taken down immediately we don't even need a discussion about it.

Foxi4 · Sep 22, 2012

Urza said:
Again, copyrights and trademarks are two different kinds of IP which work differently; just because a trademark lapses or becomes ineffective does not put the copyright of related works into jeopardy.

As I said - subject to geoterritorial issues. What works in your country doesn't necessarily have to apply everywhere else, so I focus on my domestic law, which stands above international law.

The Catboy · Sep 22, 2012

There is a report button on filetrip. If you have a problem with a file, please don't hesitate to report them and they will be handled.

Foxi4 · Sep 22, 2012

Settling this issue is pretty simple - if a game is still actively sold, take it down. If it isn't in any shape or form, the company owning the copyright has disbanded and the ownership of the IP is at very best debatable, keep it online.

WiiUBricker · Sep 22, 2012

The Catboy said:
There is a report button on filetrip. If you have a problem with a file, please don't hesitate to report them and they will be handled.

The OP said in another thread his reports have been ignored, hence why he created this thread.

Urza · Sep 22, 2012

Foxi4 said:
Urza said:

Again, copyrights and trademarks are two different kinds of IP which work differently; just because a trademark lapses or becomes ineffective does not put the copyright of related works into jeopardy.

Click to expand...

As I said - subject to geoterritorial issues. What works in your country doesn't necessarily have to apply everywhere else, so I focus on my domestic law, which stands above international law.

Considering that the servers are located in France and China, and the copyright holders will be overwhelmingly American, I reckon your "domestic law" means basically jack shit here.

I'll take the liberty of disabling the files in question.

edit: Someone else already got them.

Foxi4 · Sep 22, 2012

Urza said:
Considering that the servers are located in France and China, and the copyright holders will be overwhelmingly American, I reckon your "domestic law" means basically jack shit here.

I'll take the liberty of disabling the files in question.

Which is why one should be concerned with Chinese and French copyright laws rather than being rude to other users for no reason.

tueidj · Sep 22, 2012

The Catboy said:
There is a report button on filetrip. If you have a problem with a file, please don't hesitate to report them and they will be handled.

I don't see the point when the filetrip administrator is the one who uploaded them - he obviously thinks they are fine so drawing his attention isn't going to achieve anything, hence I made this thread instead.

Another World · Sep 22, 2012

WiiBricker said:
The Catboy said:

There is a report button on filetrip. If you have a problem with a file, please don't hesitate to report them and they will be handled.

Click to expand...

The OP said in another thread his reports have been ignored, hence why he created this thread.

i've never seen these files reported with the filetrip report system. i check it daily.

here is what i am going to propose.

if a file is upload and that file is still sold (thus not 'abandoned') then please report it with a link to where it is sold. those files will be removed. please do not report it saying that it should be deleted without any further explanation or links that will help us to make our decision. the more information you can provide the quicker we can take appropriate action.

-another world

tueidj · Sep 22, 2012

The files I mentioned reporting were in the wii section, several GPL apps without source code and some other apps that don't permit redistribution. Unrelated to this matter.

The Catboy · Sep 22, 2012

tueidj said:
The Catboy said:

There is a report button on filetrip. If you have a problem with a file, please don't hesitate to report them and they will be handled.

Click to expand...

I don't see the point when the filetrip administrator is the one who uploaded them - he obviously thinks they are fine so drawing his attention isn't going to achieve anything, hence I made this thread instead.

I don't recall seeing those reports. It could be possible that I missed them during the time that I was away with computer problems.
But there are other staff members on the site and if they didn't handle them, that means they didn't see the need to remove them.

Another World · Sep 22, 2012

The Catboy said:
There are also games nowadays that are freeware and still being sold
http://www.amazon.co...r+scrolls+arena

Abandonware is a rather vague grey area, but we deemed any game that requires Dos to play are OK to upload.

lets clarify it a little. if it is being sold by a system like steam, gog, psn, xbox live, etc, then someone has the rights to sell the software. those files can not be allowed on filetrip. that would be blatant warez trading. if it is an amazon/ebay/yahoo/etc seller selling their old copy of the abandoned file, then its fair game. if those files are asked to be taken down, we will comply with the developers/copyright holders.

i think that is a fair way to judge this.

-another world

The Catboy · Sep 22, 2012

Another World said:
The Catboy said:

There are also games nowadays that are freeware and still being sold
http://www.amazon.co...r+scrolls+arena

Abandonware is a rather vague grey area, but we deemed any game that requires Dos to play are OK to upload.

Click to expand...

lets clarify it a little. if it is being sold by a system like steam, gog, psn, xbox live, etc, then someone has the rights to sell the software. those files can not be allowed on filetrip. that would be blatant warez trading. if it is an amazon/ebay/yahoo/etc seller selling their old copy of the abandoned file, then its fair game. if those files are asked to be taken down, we will comply with the developers/copyright holders.

i think that is a fair way to judge this.

-another world

Fair enough.

tueidj · Sep 22, 2012

That doesn't address the situation I proposed earlier - when a game is allowed on filetrip and then gets revived on a site like GoG.com (19,975 people have asked for System Shock to be made available, for example). It should be freeware games only if you want the site to stay legal.

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