Depression and school

The Catboy · Apr 30, 2012

Foxi4 said:
The Catboy said:

I understand where you are coming from and suing might be a little extreme, but honestly the school should work with him and not against him. Depression comes in many forms and isn't something that goes away. It requires a lot of work and the school needs to help him out. Expelling him won't solve anything and honestly makes it seem like depression is something to be ashamed of.
As well allowing students to vote on his future is just adding insult to injury. He doesn't need to have the kinda pressure on him and nor do the rest of the students, all that does is create an unhealthy learning environmental for everyone.
I do like your idea of extending his school year to help though, that's something the school should do instead of throwing him out.

Click to expand...

I would only advise suing the school for unethical treatment if they refuse to co-operate after further inquiries, the current "deal" is retarded and has no chances of working, but first and foremost, the kid himself should acknowledge that the fact that he's not feeling up to something doesn't mean that he doesn't have to do it. People gotta do a whole lot of stuff even though they don't want to because that's how life works.

I understand that he's depressed, I fully acknowledge his condition and I experienced first-hand how such a person may act, but at the same time I believe that encouragement can work wonders. Excuse me for generalizing now but a great majority of the so-called "Depressed Teens" are depressed for superficial reasons and really need to snap out of it if they're going to succeed in life and go places.

If he *wants* to carry on learning, if he desires to get a diploma then he's entitled to do so - it's his civil right and the board of teachers has f*ck all to say in that matter, if they will deny him this right then hell yes he should sue, but only after he acknowledges his own faults and talks with the teachers personally.

Mixing personal life and professional life is a big no-no, the two have very little to do with eachother. If he was feeling really down and couldn't stand making assignments on his own, it would appear that he has a group of friends - each and every one of them could've helped him through it, and if not them, the teachers could.

Simple rules of school? Have paper slips for every absence, hand in assignments before the deadline and in the case of handing them late, apologize and give a genuine reason as to why you're late. If you just screw everything and remark "I didn't do *insert activity* because I've got problems" then it's just not going to work. I have problems, the teachers have problems. Quoting Gordon Ramsay, "Problem, problem, problem. Everyone has problems". That really doesn't matter, it's not a good enough reason.

I do see where you are coming from and agree.

yuyuyup · Apr 30, 2012

Foxi4 said:
I would only advise suing the school for unethical treatment if they refuse to co-operate after further inquiries, the current "deal" is retarded and has no chances of working, but first and foremost, the kid himself should acknowledge that the fact that he's not feeling up to something doesn't mean that he doesn't have to do it. People gotta do a whole lot of stuff even though they don't want to because that's how life works.

I understand that he's depressed, I fully acknowledge his condition and I experienced first-hand how such a person may act, but at the same time I believe that encouragement can work wonders. Excuse me for generalizing now but a great majority of the so-called "Depressed Teens" are depressed for superficial reasons and really need to snap out of it if they're going to succeed in life and go places.

If he *wants* to carry on learning, if he desires to get a diploma then he's entitled to do so - it's his civil right and the board of teachers has f*ck all to say in that matter, if they will deny him this right then hell yes he should sue, but only after he acknowledges his own faults and talks with the teachers personally.

Mixing personal life and professional life is a big no-no, the two have very little to do with eachother. If he was feeling really down and couldn't stand making assignments on his own, it would appear that he has a group of friends - each and every one of them could've helped him through it, and if not them, the teachers could.

Simple rules of school? Have paper slips for every absence, hand in assignments before the deadline and in the case of handing them late, apologize and give a genuine reason as to why you're late. If you just screw everything and remark "I didn't do *insert activity* because I've got problems" then it's just not going to work. I have problems, the teachers have problems. Quoting Gordon Ramsay, "Problem, problem, problem. Everyone has problems". That really doesn't matter, it's not a good enough reason.

You put the onus on the depressed individual. You expect him or her to act logically. But depression causes you to think illogically. You say most depressed teens are depressed for superficial reasons. Well even if it's NOT for a "good" reason, it's still affecting them, and you are assuming they actually know WHY they are depressed. How do you know they aren't just attributing their depression to whatever straws they can grasp ? Telling a depressed person to "snap out of it" is as affective as telling a snapped tree branch to "snap out of it." Why do you assume a depressed person has any interest in their own self interest ? When I was depressed, I deeply hated myself. The only reason I didn't kill myself is cowardice of death. Why would I have been concerned with school ? Of course I wasn't, and I failed. Why would you assume he has supportive friends ?

Everyone does have problems. But depression is crippling.

Urza · Apr 30, 2012

The idea that "tough love" is a solution for someone suffering clinical depression is absolute fallacy. It shows that although strides have been made in recent decades, the unwarranted stigma towards humans with mental illness is still pervasive in our society.

Clinical depression is a disease. It's a chemical imbalance which prevents our brains from functioning correctly. It is not something which will be overcome by "life kicking him in the butt". Depending on severity it is *possible* to get to a livable mental state without medication, however that's not an option for many people and the smallest crack can send such a person spiralling back down into oblivion.

Actual treatment is a necessity. There is a plethora of medication on the market for treating depression. Everyone's mind is different however - it can take months or even years to find the correct one (or combination of) capable of bringing you to a productive state of mind. Other forms of treatment can help as well, although not necessarily working any more quickly or effectively.

There are a number of online support groups for depressed indviduals (reddit has several such as http://www.reddit.com/r/depression/ or http://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/). I think you'll find enough anecdotal evidence to make up your mind.

Would you tell a diabetic to "snap out of it"?

Foxi4 · Apr 30, 2012

yuyuyup said:
You put the onus on the depressed individual. You expect him or her to act logically. But depression causes you to think illogically. You say most depressed teens are depressed for superficial reasons. Well even if it's NOT for a "good" reason, it's still affecting them, and you are assuming they actually know WHY they are depressed. How do you know they aren't just attributing their depression to whatever straws they can grasp ? Telling a depressed person to "snap out of it" is as affective as telling a snapped tree branch to "snap out of it." Why do you assume a depressed person has any interest in their own self interest ? When I was depressed, I deeply hated myself. The only reason I didn't kill myself is cowardice of death. Why would I have been concerned with school ? Of course I wasn't, and I failed. Why would you assume he has supportive friends ?

Everyone does have problems. But depression is crippling.

Apparently he's interested in finishing school as he is complaining about the situation. Depressed or not, he's bound by certain professional agreements and not being able to meet standards leads to consequences. We can't treat him differently just because he's depressed - the best that can be done is giving him equal opportunity to finish the school year. Depression can cripple a person - fair play, but he's being treated for it and if he truly wants to finish school then he will - if not this year then the next.

Don't give me lectures about how depression can affect your professional life - standards are standards. You meet them and you pass, you don't and you fail like you have. It's safe to assume that he has supportive friends as they voted againts his expulsion.

Look at the system at work now - preferential treatment for depressed students, preferential treatment for ADHD students, preferential treatment for ADD students, preferential treatment for students of colour. Apparently being a depressed ADD student who's black is the best way to get a degree.

Sorry mate, life's harsh.

Urza said:
The idea that "tough love" is a solution for someone suffering clinical depression is absolute fallacy. It shows that although strides have been made in recent decades, the unwarranted stigma towards humans with mental illness is still pervasive in our society.

Clinical depression is a disease. It's a chemical imbalance which prevents our brains from functioning correctly. It is not something which will be overcome by "life kicking him in the butt". Depending on severity it is *possible* to get to a livable mental state without medication, however that's not an option for many people and the smallest crack can send such a person spiralling back down into oblivion.

Actual treatment is a necessity. There is a plethora of medication on the market for treating depression. Everyone's mind is different however - it can take months or even years to find the correct one (or combination of) capable of bringing you to a productive state of mind. Other forms of treatment can help as well, although not necessarily working any more quickly or effectively.

There are a number of online support groups for depressed indviduals (reddit has several such as http://www.reddit.com/r/depression/ or http://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/). I think you'll find enough anecdotal evidence to make up your mind.

Would you tell a diabetic to "snap out of it"?

Are you two purposely misreading my post?

I thought I was clear - he should be given a chance to attend classes and have his school year extended to facilitate finishing his faculty, he already visits the therapists and recieves medication, anything above that is patting him on the back for not doing his duties.

Someone really close to me is depressed, I won't dwell into who that could be but we've known eachother for a long time and a mixture of support and tough love has always helped that person deal with all the shit. You can't just say "it's okay, you don't have to do this or that" - no. You still have to, or you won't finish school.

His depresion should be taken into consideration, but not to the point of just letting his shortcommings slip - oh no. His work should be facilitated for him, not neglected.

Pyrmon · Apr 30, 2012

Well, this turned into quite the debate, hasn't it?

A few things need to be made clear. The school isn't making students vote for or against the expulsion. The student community decided they thought it was unfair to expel him and showed it via the Student Parliament.
The depressed student has had every absence motivated by either parents or a professional and he's given in all the assignments he didn't do, safe for one. Which is a Music assignment that is too demanding time-wise, considering end-year exams are approaching and he's got a lot of catching-up to do.

Foxi4 · Apr 30, 2012

Pyrmon said:
Well, this turned into quite the debate, hasn't it?

A few things need to be made clear. The school isn't making students vote for or against the expulsion. The student community decided they thought it was unfair to expel him and showed it via the Student Parliament.
The depressed student has had every absence motivated by either parents or a professional and he's given in all the assignments he didn't do, safe for one. Which is a Music assignment that is too demanding time-wise, considering end-year exams are approaching and he's got a lot of catching-up to do.

In that case he should be given a chance, seeing that he's got a practically clean slate now. I mean, it's a Music assignment - unless he's going to be a maestro in the future, it's one of those subjects nobody gives a sh*t about. I guess he should spend his spare time preparing it and hand it in when it's ready, that, and he should re-negotiate the deal as he really got the sh*t end of the stick here.

Hyro-Sama · Apr 30, 2012

It's Quebec. Nuff said.

Anyway, shouldn't this be a blog post? Seems personal enough.

Depression and school

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hi

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