C$1 billion suit filed against Sony

GranolaBar · May 5, 2011

No offense to Sony lovers, but I think this is just karma. BAD karma. Remember what Jack Tretton said about the DS? Well I think it just got back at them. This is just my opinion. My friends and relatives here in Canada might have their PSN info stolen already. That's just right to sue them. Good thing I'm using these 3:

I never use the PSP for internet gaming. So it's fine with me

Mangofett · May 5, 2011

Foxi4 said:
QUOTE said:

1. The people who are affected are the people who bought games rather than the pirates. Pirates on the PS3 get banned off of the PSN so this should not apply to them.

2. PSN is "free," but you paid for it with the purchase of your PS3 console. If the service is down and your information is compromised (!!) the company needs to do much more than just issue a half-baked apology.

3. A witty saying (i.e. bullshit) about "poetic justice" and "little shits whining" does not justify a lack of compensation to those genuinely affected by this situation. Get off of your high horse: would you like to live with the constant fear of there being a very real chance of having your identity stolen?

Click to expand...

1. Bullshit. fckPSN etc.

2. Bullshit. PSN is not a part of the PS3 package. You can be banned or removed from the service at any given time. Review the license you recieved with your console. You bought the hardware and the hardware *only*.

3. No compensation is necessary - PSN is free. Your losses are 0 in this case. Sony's being *nice* to their customers for giving them PSN+ for a limited period of time - they don't have to do that. Your identity will not be stolen if you stop INPUTTING it everywhere. That's what internet NICKS were made for, to stay ANONYMOUS to a certain extent.

Are you retarded? You can't buy with a credit card using a fake name and address. That's called fraud, and most likely your payment wouldn't be processed. The license (PSN/Qriocity) states that the private information you store with Sony will not be shared with anyone. They are in breach of their own license. As much as companies would like you to believe otherwise, contracts work both ways.

Also the license states that the purchase of the console grants you use to the PSN, so yeah, it kinda is included in the purchase price. The fact that you can be banned or removed at any time is the same with Xbox Live.

KingVamp · May 5, 2011

Never seen any proof that they said they are not responsible for your info or even stating that is legal.

Anakir · May 5, 2011

Supreme Dirt said:
In response to one of the above posters, the Canadian dollar is actually worth a few cents more than the US dollar. If anything, we should be making fun of your currency. You'll notice how it mentions 1 billion CAD is equivalent to 1.04 billion USD.

lol. A smashboard'ian.

Foxi4 · May 5, 2011

QUOTE said:
Are you retarded? You can't buy with a credit card using a fake name and address. That's called fraud, and most likely your payment wouldn't be processed. The license (PSN/Qriocity) states that the private information you store with Sony will not be shared with anyone. They are in breach of their own license. As much as companies would like you to believe otherwise, contracts work both ways.

Also the license states that the purchase of the console grants you use to the PSN, so yeah, it kinda is included in the purchase price. The fact that you can be banned or removed at any time is the same with Xbox Live.

How rude.

QUOTE3. SERVICES AND UPDATES

From time to time, SCE may provide (...) services to your PS3™ system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines or provide you with new offerings. Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online, and others may be available to you through SCE's online network or authorized channels. (...) Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality.

5. INTERNET FEATURES

Use of any feature that requires access to internet connection, including the PS3™ system's internet browser is at your own risk.

6. WARRANTY DISCLAIMER AND LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

SCE AND ITS AFFILIATED COMPANIES EXCLUDE ALL LIABILITY FOR ANY LOSS OF DATA, LOSS OF PROFIT, OR ANY OTHER LOSS OR DAMAGE SUFFERED BY YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY, WHETHER DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL HOWEVER ARISING, AS A RESULT OF ACCESSING TO OR USING THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE OR ANY OF THE CONTENTS, PROGRAMS, FEATURES, SERVICES OR INFORMATION ON OR PROVIDED THROUGH THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE. SO LONG AS THIS PROVISION IS ENFORCEABLE IN YOUR JURISDICTION, THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS, EXCLUSIONS AND DISCLAIMERS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE.

1. The magic word being "may." Sony "may" allow you to use online services, PSN included, but doesn't have to.

2. Using Online services is at your own risk.

3. Sony is not responsible for any loss of data, no matter what caused it.

As far as Credit Card information is concerned, you didn't have to hard-code it into the console. You could just as well make your purchase without having it saved, PSN would prompt for the info and THEN you'd input it. Either that, or even safer, just buy PSN points in freaking WallMart or GameStop.

Y'know, the SAFE way? Tut-tut, calling people names. Not nice.

Mangofett · May 6, 2011

I appreciate your attempt to bait me, but take a look at that agreement you posted again:

"SO LONG AS THIS PROVISION IS ENFORCEABLE IN YOUR JURISDICTION"

It's not, because this is a federal issue (rather than a civil matter) so the EULA can't take precedence over the law

Second of all, that's not even the right license. Qriocity/PSN and SCE have different license agreements (privacy policy in particular) that state your information will not be shared with anyone. Additionally, your credit card is stored with the PSN once you enter it once. And not on your console (it would be safer that way) but rather, on the PSN cloud. I don't understand how you're having so much difficulty with understanding this situation.

You do realize what you're saying right? You're telling people to fore go the encouraged method of transaction in favor of a much more inconvenient method on the astronomically slim chance that your data may be compromised when you are assured it would not be by a multi-billion dollar company.

The fact that someone has the information of millions of owners because of something Sony neglected to fix a known server exploit in the course of several months is definitely Sony's fault. I don't even understand why you'd argue that.

_Chaz_ · May 6, 2011

Hooray for Sony!

They give free PSN for 12 months (I was under the impression that PSN was already free) and identity theft protection (the damage is done) to cover up a mistake that they made.
Seriously, they essentially gave hackers the personal information of their customers. How anyone can forgive them and forget that is beyond my comprehension.

Foxi4 · May 6, 2011

It's the correct license, I argued with you whether or not PSN is an element of the PS3 package. It is not, and so states the PS3 license. Not only that, you're taking one part of a sentence out of context and honestly believe that you're right when you are *not* re-read the whole thing, it's a matter of reading comperhension.

QUOTE said:
SCE AND ITS AFFILIATED COMPANIES (Sony and crew) EXCLUDE ALL LIABILITY FOR ANY LOSS OF DATA, LOSS OF PROFIT, OR ANY OTHER LOSS OR DAMAGE SUFFERED BY YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY (ain't responsible for the loss of your and your crew's stuff), WHETHER DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL HOWEVER ARISING, AS A RESULT OF ACCESSING TO OR USING THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE OR ANY OF THE CONTENTS, PROGRAMS, FEATURES, SERVICES OR INFORMATION ON OR PROVIDED THROUGH THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE (no matter if it was your fault or our fault or if someone stole it). SO LONG AS THIS PROVISION IS ENFORCEABLE IN YOUR JURISDICTION, THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS, EXCLUSIONS AND DISCLAIMERS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW (We will abuse this power to the furthest extent the law in your country allows us, and it does), EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE

The information wasn't shared with anyones anyways, following your train of thought. It was stolen. It's like saying that if a thief steals money from a bank, the bank is sharing money with him. That's the most broken logic I've ever seen.

Also, I'm not telling anyone to burn their credit cards and head back to stoneage land. I'm just pointing out that there were other methods to use which users ignored and chose to take the risk and hard-code their private information into the system. You didn't *have* to do it, but you have, thus the fault is partially on your side aswell.

FireGrey · May 6, 2011

Knowing Sony they'll get through this lawsuit

Anyway this is pathetic.
Sony had good security to start off with and hackers hacked it and everyone is saying it's weak.
Anything is hackable.
Anyway wonder who did it..?

Microsoft

ShadowSoldier · May 6, 2011

I just choose to ignore Foxi4 because honestly, it's not worth the time and effort. Could get better results talking to a brick wall.

Also, yes everything is hackable. If one man can put it together, another can take it apart. But it's not just hackers that are saying their stuff was weak, it's a proven fact lol..

FireGrey · May 6, 2011

sheesh just use a PSN card and you wouldn't have to worry about this.
your fault for saving your credit card details.
BTW, NOTHING HAS HAPPENED TO ANYONE YET WITH THEIR IDENTITY OR CREDIT CARD!!!

Foxi4 · May 6, 2011

QUOTE said:
I just choose to ignore Foxi4 because honestly, it's not worth the time and effort. Could get better results talking to a brick wall.

That'd be best. Seeing that you don't understand the simple rule of "the fault is never 100% on one side", it'd be best if we cease communication.

You COULD buy cards instead. You didn't. You took the risk. CC info stolen by hackers. Life is harsh, gotta get a move on. That's the whole story.

Funny thing it, I underlined the possibility of loss of data in a completely different and unrelated thread (I believe it was about the downfall of PSPGo) in which I opposed the idea of online distribution in general. So hey - I jinxed it.

It's not really *hard* to buy a PSN card each time you hop in to a game store to buy some disc-based games. This is hardly a problem.

ShadowSoldier · May 6, 2011

FireGrey said:
sheesh just use a PSN card and you wouldn't have to worry about this.
your fault for saving your credit card details.
BTW, NOTHING HAS HAPPENED TO ANYONE YET WITH THEIR IDENTITY OR CREDIT CARD!!!

That means it's alright to just forgive and forget? They shouldn't even have the details in the first place, whether or not anything has happened or will happen.

Mangofett · May 6, 2011

Foxi4 said:
It's the correct license, I argued with you whether or not PSN is an element of the PS3 package. It is not, and so states the PS3 license. Not only that, you're taking one part of a sentence out of context and honestly believe that you're right when you are *not* re-read the whole thing, it's a matter of reading comperhension.

QUOTE said:

SCE AND ITS AFFILIATED COMPANIES (Sony and crew) EXCLUDE ALL LIABILITY FOR ANY LOSS OF DATA, LOSS OF PROFIT, OR ANY OTHER LOSS OR DAMAGE SUFFERED BY YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY (ain't responsible for the loss of your and your crew's stuff), WHETHER DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL HOWEVER ARISING, AS A RESULT OF ACCESSING TO OR USING THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE OR ANY OF THE CONTENTS, PROGRAMS, FEATURES, SERVICES OR INFORMATION ON OR PROVIDED THROUGH THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE (no matter if it was your fault or our fault or if someone stole it). SO LONG AS THIS PROVISION IS ENFORCEABLE IN YOUR JURISDICTION, THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS, EXCLUSIONS AND DISCLAIMERS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW (We will abuse this power to the furthest extent the law in your country allows us, and it does), EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE

The information wasn't shared with anyones anyways, following your train of thought. It was stolen. It's like saying that if a thief steals money from a bank, the bank is sharing money with him. That's the most broken logic I've ever seen.

Also, I'm not telling anyone to burn their credit cards and head back to stoneage land. I'm just pointing out that there were other methods to use which users ignored and chose to take the risk and hard-code their private information into the system. You didn't *have* to do it, but you have, thus the fault is partially on your side aswell.
Okay, so let me follow your train of logic

1. PSN is not part of the PS3 package
2. PSN is affected, PS3 is not
3. Therefore, the PS3 license applies.

Makes sense.

Also, yeah you were basically telling people to not use their credit cards, USE A FAKE ALIAS, and use the method that costs more over the method that Sony encourages.

Unlike the bank analogy, this would have never happened if Sony wasn't using outdated Apache servers. 6 MONTHS OUTDATED.

Furthermore, the bank analogy is moot. If a bank was robbed, your money would be reinstituted by the bank. The gov't wouldn't allow otherwise (US, at least). What I'm arguing is that Sony should take responsibility and reimburse their customers, which you originally said they shouldn't because PSN is a privilege. Well the bank account is a privilege, and the person who maintains it (the bank) takes responsibility if something were to happen to it.

QUOTE

Click to expand...

That'd be best. Seeing that you don't understand the simple rule of "the fault is never 100% on one side", it'd be best if we cease communication.

That's not a rule. And even if it was, the consumer can take perhaps 1% of the blame (for followng Sony's directions). NOT enough to warrant a lack of compensation like you're suggesting.

And hey, the general public agrees with my view, and Sony understands that. They're offering 12 months identity theft protection to all of those affected.

Look, this isn't really something you can argue. This is the last post I'm making. You're the only one who thinks you're right. If you really want to be stubborn, go ahead and think what you want. Just know you're wrong.

last edit, I promise: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gamification/sec...t-unpatched/374

Foxi4 · May 6, 2011

You're completely disregarding the fact that the general public doesn't necessarily have to be "right". Besides, didn't Sony already start the tsunami of compensation offers? I simply stated some facts that you don't really have to agree with. The way I'm seeing it, Sony is doing all it can to compensate the losses their customers sustained. PSN+ free for a period of time, paying for the Credit Card swap, the identity theft protection you mentioned yourself, I can't see a fault here.

You're arguing, but not about the exact same thing. What I was saying is that the PSN services are not a part of the PS3 package, their usage is underlined as "at your own risk" and that there were different methods of cashing in PSN points other than Credit Card usage that users generally disregarded, and that if Sony really was the naughty corporation everybody's trying to picture it as, it wouldn't offer you anything at all, because at the end of the day, they really have no obligation to do so.

You on the other hand are arguing that they should repent for their negligance as far as security on their servers is concerned, which is beyond doubt true.

Perhaps I grasped my point clumsily. If so, I appologize for causing confusion, that was not my intention.

Mangofett · May 6, 2011

QUOTE said:
No compensation is necessary - PSN is free. Your losses are 0 in this case. Sony's being *nice* to their customers for giving them PSN+ for a limited period of time - they don't have to do that.

QUOTEYou on the other hand are arguing that they should repent for their negligance as far as security on their servers is concerned, which is beyond doubt true.

Glad we can bring this to a conclusion.

Foxi4 · May 6, 2011

Please don't bend what I just said. What I said is that they should increase the server security now that they know it's been breached. That's in the spirit of progress, not in the spirit of brown-nosing PSN users.

I'm still saying that compensation in the form of freebies is only a sugarcoating of the actual work and a present for the users.

godreborn · May 6, 2011

it's pretty sad that many fanboys make the claim that this hack could've happened to any company. well, it didn't! it happened to sony. plus, such a statement insinuates that such attacks happen frequently to other companies; if that were true, the world would be in serious trouble.

playstation network: attack its weak point for massive damage...sorry, I couldn't help myself. I saw this statement on another forum, and it still makes me lol.

Foxi4 · May 6, 2011

Because it's true and frequent.

Hardly an insinuation - hacks and attacks happen on a regular basis on nearly every online service of this magnitude.

godreborn · May 6, 2011

it's only true if it's sony. three hacks in a month--preparing for a possible forth. plus, there's no actual proof of ur argument. the problems at sony have caused governments, news networks, and network security experts to take note and question their actions. I don't recall any such thing happening with xbox live. face it--sony is incompetent...which is probably the reason y they just steal others' ideas--a complete lack of ability: let's steal achievements and pass them off as trophies, let's steal motion-controlling by making a wiimote-ripoff that looks like a vibrator with a glowing ball. at least microsoft tried something new with kinect. the reason sony's network security was lacking is because they couldn't analyze microsoft's or even nintendo's security--that's the only way they would've gotten it right!

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