Your thoughts on suicide

Infinite Zero

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Fireballo said:
Death lasts forever.
Fix'd.
We have been give a single life. Why waste it?
frown.gif
 

Ace Gunman

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Fascinating post, OSW. One point, and somewhat of a counterpoint, that I'd like to mention is the idea that life was simpler hundreds or thousands of years ago and how that might relate to suicidal tendencies in the modern demographic. Something I have been thinking about lately is the concept that people simply used to act, and now we are all so in our heads that we stress over the tiniest things. This was inspired by my play through recently of Assassin's Creed 2, and partially inspired by a topic I read recently on GBAtemp where someone asked for dating advice.

At the very beginning of that game, and small spoilers here but its barely even a part of the game for more than 2 minutes, the main character, Ezio, seduces and then has sex with I believe either the daughter of a powerful man, or his wife. This leads to threats of death and whatnot when the father or husband finds out. I bring this up because how many times have we heard this story throughout history? Men and women literally willing to risk penalty of death (as adultry was a major crime in many societies) in order for one night of passion.

Alternative, Leonardo da Vinci, keeping in mind I may be thinking of another famous inventor/artist, but I believe I have the right one. Men like him who were entirely in their heads. Always thinking about the philosophical, questioning religion, politics, etc. Great individuals who accomplished a great deal, but whom most would call eccentric. These men of history were known to have exceptionally passionate love lives. Most of them had multiple mistresses, and yet, they were in their own heads.

Today we over think every detail of our lives. Should I ask her out, should I kiss that person, should I say this or that, will I lose my job if I do this, etc. It causes undue stress, but that stress is one that all people through the modern society feel at one point or another. The irony is that although our lifespans have been expanded from living to 30 to live to 95, we are more concerned about the time we have and what we have done with it than ever before.

Additionally, in days of old we had no time to think about such topics. Nowadays, for as busy as we all are, we have far too much time to just sit down in a room alone and question our life choices, which could potentially lead to focusing on the darker parts.

However, I do not believe that everyone who does so is necessarily mentally unhinged on some level. There are many extremely small reasons someone may feel the pressures of the world, but as our own mthrnite says, all pain is local. One doesn't need to be a cancer patient or victim of theft to feel badly about parts of their life. For a person with an exceptional life, falling in a puddle may be a month long low. There is always going to be someone who is worse off, if you consider it that way no one would ever do anything with their lives. "Sure, I lost my job, but at least I don't have a tumor". Losing your job is still bad, and could potentially cripple your life from that point onward if you had no further prospects.

The key to understanding someones "local" pain is to read beyond the simple answer, I feel. Sure, someone saying "I do not have a girlfriend, I should kill myself" sounds like an overreaction, but what if they are 40? What if they are a virgin? What if all women look at them and say "Wow, this person is a 40 year old virgin, they must have some series issues, I don't feel like getting involved with that baggage" (I watched the 40 Year Old Virgin recently, if you can't tell xD).

When you start piecing together the details beyond that simple initial statement, yeah, I could picture someone killing themselves over that. Never having a mate? The one and only important thing in this world that we are literally built for? Imagine the failure one must feel, being unable to succeed at doing what we are biologically unable to fight. When in reality, the only thing that person has wrong with them is that so many people wrote him off as "having issues", that they never gave him a chance. You can't fight that, not when it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with other peoples perspectives of you.

My point here is that sometimes these tiny details that seem so pointless and melodramatic to people who aren't in that situation, are actually much larger issues that the individuals in question cannot overcome no matter how hard they try. Which makes it understandable that they may want to take their own lives. Struggling against futility for the remainder of your lifespan can't be much fun.
 

OSW

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Great post Ace, nicely tied in with prince of persia lol. I haven't played the game but I recently watched the sands of time movie
biggrin.gif


EDIT: Excuse me but I believe I just misread assassins creed for prince of persia. What a horrible mistake LOL

One more thing, I just wanted to clarify about my post though (in case anyone misunderstood) when I said mental problem, I didn't quite mean it in the way we typically use that phrase (ie. a clinically diagnosed problem). What I wanted to get across was that something is not quite right (not necessarily crazy or anything).

This could easily be something that has been conditioned from their past, ie. their family or classmates or whoever has mistreated them to the point in which they lose self-value, or perhaps they have gone through a traumatizing experience which has changed the way they think and feel.

I really hope that all the tempers here today, have the strength to overcome any mental challenges that may come their way (such as suicide).
 

Icealote

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Here's my opinion,
I dislike people calling other people who are suicidal or have ended their own life because of some "trivial reasons" as "idiots" or "messed up". I believe these people should shut their mouths and just acknowledge these people who choose this decision. I tired of seeing the label as these people who have or want to commit this act as being selfish, that's not my concern, what concerns me is that these idiots criticize and complain that one life has ruined the rest of a family, please... THAT person would never feel so helpless or be in a suicidal mode IF the family/friends had paid attention or was aware of the situation. What's disgraceful is that THESE people have the nerve to say it to people who mourn the suicidal victims. THAT'S not what people want to hear. People who act, think and behave in this manner are the idiots. They run their mouths and say selfish this and that and yet I believe they wouldn't help that person when asked in the moment. Suicide or the act of committing suicide is always a cry for or of help.
This is MY opinion as I worked and deal with such cases since its a part of my working career. I just hope I've open people's eyes to this part where it is often overlooked. I agree that there will always be hope for those who see suicide as an option or even an answer. The real question is, "will you or could you help these people in need?"
I hope that question is taken seriously and not with the comments such as "yeah easy bro" or some crap like that.
 

GundamXXX

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Its funny, I was thinking about something that suicide relates too...

Anyway, I think suicide is a broad term. People only see it as a negative thing. ODing, slicing, hanging yourselfing, jumping in front of a train etc etc but have you ever thought about the following suicide?

A kid falls on the tracks at a trainstation. The train cant stop in time and you realize that. You jump on the tracks knowing very well you dont have time to get off and you grab the kid and throw it back on the platform. BAM youre dead.

Is that suicide? I think it is because no matter how "noble" the cause is you still kill yourself knowingly
 

BobTheJoeBob

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GundamXXX said:
Its funny, I was thinking about something that suicide relates too...

Anyway, I think suicide is a broad term. People only see it as a negative thing. ODing, slicing, hanging yourselfing, jumping in front of a train etc etc but have you ever thought about the following suicide?

A kid falls on the tracks at a trainstation. The train cant stop in time and you realize that. You jump on the tracks knowing very well you dont have time to get off and you grab the kid and throw it back on the platform. BAM youre dead.

Is that suicide? I think it is because no matter how "noble" the cause is you still kill yourself knowingly

su·i·cide
? ?/?su??sa?d/ Show Spelled [soo-uh-sahyd] Show IPA noun, verb, -cid·ed, -cid·ing.
–noun
1.
the intentional taking of one's own life.

If someone did that, they didn't intentionally take their own life, they just knew that if they didn't try and help the kid, he would die. For it to be suicide, you have to want to take your own life.
 

GundamXXX

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BobTheJoeBob said:
GundamXXX said:
Its funny, I was thinking about something that suicide relates too...

Anyway, I think suicide is a broad term. People only see it as a negative thing. ODing, slicing, hanging yourselfing, jumping in front of a train etc etc but have you ever thought about the following suicide?

A kid falls on the tracks at a trainstation. The train cant stop in time and you realize that. You jump on the tracks knowing very well you dont have time to get off and you grab the kid and throw it back on the platform. BAM youre dead.

Is that suicide? I think it is because no matter how "noble" the cause is you still kill yourself knowingly

su·i·cide
? ?/?su??sa?d/ Show Spelled [soo-uh-sahyd] Show IPA noun, verb, -cid·ed, -cid·ing.
–noun
1.
the intentional taking of one's own life.

If someone did that, they didn't intentionally take their own life, they just knew that if they didn't try and help the kid, he would die. For it to be suicide, you have to want to take your own life.

Jumping in front a train intentionally, wether to try and save someone or not, is suicide.

The person knew very well he was going to die but did it anyway to save a life.


Ok another example. Someone is depressed and on the edge of breaking down. He thinks "If I dont do something real soon Im going to murder people". Not being able to help himself of get help he shoots himself to prevent himself from shooting other. Does this count as suicide?
 

The Catboy

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Urza said:
A Gay Little Catboy said:
Honestly I have to say it's a weak and selfish thing to do.
Not just is it weak to just give in and up, letting the world win, but it's selfish to just foolishly take your own life despite knowing that your life has now been taken from all the people love and the people that love you. Personally I don't agree with the idea of suicide.
Weak? So what's strength? Suffering? Maybe you should poke your eyes out with scalding skewers as a feat of strength?

Selfish? You know what's selfish? Thinking that someone in a world of darkness should remain there indefinitely so you feel a little less bad.

Death is the escape. I take comfort in the fact that if life ever became too much for me, that escape is available to me.
Urza do you have anything better to do other than criticize my posts?

1. It's weak to just give up and give in. It's weak to just let the world push you around and not stand up against it. It's weak to let them win. It's weak to to fail yourself in such a manner you take your own life.

2. It's selfish to assume that your life isn't worth living.

3. Death is no escape, it's only an excuse.
I know what it is like to be a suicidal state and I know what it is like to want to die so hard that you would take any chance to let it all go. I learned the hard way that death is no escape from your problems.
 

Wabsta

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A Gay Little Catboy said:
Urza said:
A Gay Little Catboy said:
Honestly I have to say it's a weak and selfish thing to do.
Not just is it weak to just give in and up, letting the world win, but it's selfish to just foolishly take your own life despite knowing that your life has now been taken from all the people love and the people that love you. Personally I don't agree with the idea of suicide.
Weak? So what's strength? Suffering? Maybe you should poke your eyes out with scalding skewers as a feat of strength?

Selfish? You know what's selfish? Thinking that someone in a world of darkness should remain there indefinitely so you feel a little less bad.

Death is the escape. I take comfort in the fact that if life ever became too much for me, that escape is available to me.
Urza do you have anything better to do other than criticize my posts?

1. It's weak to just give up and give in. It's weak to just let the world push you around and not stand up against it. It's weak to let them win. It's weak to to fail yourself in such a manner you take your own life.

2. It's selfish to assume that your life isn't worth living.

3. Death is no escape, it's only an excuse.
I know what it is like to be a suicidal state and I know what it is like to want to die so hard that you would take any chance to let it all go. I learned the hard way that death is no escape from your problems.
And again, I agree with the cat boy.
 

ProtoKun7

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As far as I'm concerned:
Suicide: No. Not under any circumstances.

phoenixgoddess27 said:
Either way, no one knows what happens after you die, so how can we say whether or not it'll be worse or better?
The thing is, we'll never know.
Death is death. No conscious thought or activity of any kind.

Infinite Zero said:
QUOTE(Fireballo @ Jan 15 2011, 03:08 PM) Death lasts for a long time.
Fix'd.
We have been give a single life. Why waste it?
frown.gif
Refix'd.
It's not forever in all cases. Just give it time.
 

Urza

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A Gay Little Catboy said:
Urza said:
A Gay Little Catboy said:
Honestly I have to say it's a weak and selfish thing to do.
Not just is it weak to just give in and up, letting the world win, but it's selfish to just foolishly take your own life despite knowing that your life has now been taken from all the people love and the people that love you. Personally I don't agree with the idea of suicide.
Weak? So what's strength? Suffering? Maybe you should poke your eyes out with scalding skewers as a feat of strength?

Selfish? You know what's selfish? Thinking that someone in a world of darkness should remain there indefinitely so you feel a little less bad.

Death is the escape. I take comfort in the fact that if life ever became too much for me, that escape is available to me.
Urza do you have anything better to do other than criticize my posts?

1. It's weak to just give up and give in. It's weak to just let the world push you around and not stand up against it. It's weak to let them win. It's weak to to fail yourself in such a manner you take your own life.

2. It's selfish to assume that your life isn't worth living.

3. Death is no escape, it's only an excuse.
I know what it is like to be a suicidal state and I know what it is like to want to die so hard that you would take any chance to let it all go. I learned the hard way that death is no escape from your problems.
Do you have anything better to do than make posts worth criticizing? You're delusional if you think that you're getting special treatment.
lecture.gif


1. One could argue that sticking around and being the joke of reality could also be "letting them win." Killing yourself is showing them that you're not going to tolerate its bullshit. That you have control over your own existence and have chosen to end it.

2. (As per my above posts) Any action any human takes is selfish.

3. How is death not an escape? It erases you, along with every problem you've ever had.
 

The Catboy

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Urza said:
Do you have anything better to do than make posts worth criticizing? You're delusional if you think that you're getting special treatment.
lecture.gif


1. One could argue that sticking around and being the joke of reality could also be "letting them win." Killing yourself is showing them that you're not going to tolerate its bullshit. That you have control over your own existence and have chosen to end it.

2. (As per my above posts) Any action any human takes is selfish.

3. How is death not an escape? It erases you, along with every problem you've ever had.
And here you call me "delusional."
1. Oh really? You think just giving up is showing just how strong you really are? How does that prove anything, it only proves that you are a coward who can't face reality.

2. I am not taking back what I said on the selfish comment.

3. Do you really believe that once you are gone there are no more problems? Maybe not for you, but there are still problems for those who care about you and if you don't care about those that care about you, then I pity you.
 

Urza

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A Gay Little Catboy said:
Urza said:
Do you have anything better to do than make posts worth criticizing? You're delusional if you think that you're getting special treatment.
lecture.gif


1. One could argue that sticking around and being the joke of reality could also be "letting them win." Killing yourself is showing them that you're not going to tolerate its bullshit. That you have control over your own existence and have chosen to end it.

2. (As per my above posts) Any action any human takes is selfish.

3. How is death not an escape? It erases you, along with every problem you've ever had.
And here you call me "delusional."
1. Oh really? You think just giving up is showing just how strong you really are? How does that prove anything, it only proves that you are a coward who can't face reality.

2. I am not taking back what I said on the selfish comment.

3. Do you really believe that once you are gone there are no more problems? Maybe not for you, but there are still problems for those who care about you and if you don't care about those that care about you, then I pity you.
1. If I'm giving up on life, maybe you're giving up on death. Maybe you don't have the willpower to take that gunshot, that jump, those pills. Weakness and strength are subjective, and one might see you as weak for not killing yourself.

2. Of course, because suicide, like any action (for example posting in this thread) is at its roots selfish, so what you said is completely true.

3. If you're dead, you don't care about anything (because you're dead).
 

The Catboy

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Urza said:
A Gay Little Catboy said:
Urza said:
Do you have anything better to do than make posts worth criticizing? You're delusional if you think that you're getting special treatment.
lecture.gif


1. One could argue that sticking around and being the joke of reality could also be "letting them win." Killing yourself is showing them that you're not going to tolerate its bullshit. That you have control over your own existence and have chosen to end it.

2. (As per my above posts) Any action any human takes is selfish.

3. How is death not an escape? It erases you, along with every problem you've ever had.
And here you call me "delusional."
1. Oh really? You think just giving up is showing just how strong you really are? How does that prove anything, it only proves that you are a coward who can't face reality.

2. I am not taking back what I said on the selfish comment.

3. Do you really believe that once you are gone there are no more problems? Maybe not for you, but there are still problems for those who care about you and if you don't care about those that care about you, then I pity you.
1. If I'm giving up on life, maybe you're giving up on death. Maybe you don't have the willpower to take that gunshot, that jump, those pills. Weakness and strength are subjective, and one might see you as weak for not killing yourself.

2. Of course, because suicide, like any action (for example posting in this thread) is at its roots selfish, so what you said is completely true.

3. If you're dead, you don't care about anything (because you're dead).
Go on, give up on life then. You talk as though you have the balls to give up on life yet you haven't done yourself. At one point I did have the willpower to kick that chair under me, but I smartened up long ago. You think it proves that it's stronger to give up? Really how is it stronger to just give into the pressures of life and kill yourself? All you prove is you are a pathetic coward that couldn't handle life, all you are proving is just how weak willed you really are.
 

Urza

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A Gay Little Catboy said:
Go on, give up on life then. You talk as though you have the balls to give up on life yet you haven't done yourself. At one point I did have the willpower to kick that chair under me, but I smartened up long ago. You think it proves that it's stronger to give up? Really how is it stronger to just give into the pressures of life and kill yourself? All you prove is you are a pathetic coward that couldn't handle life, all you are proving is just how weak willed you really are.
All I'm proving is that you're very close-minded.
 

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Urza, you're right in every way. I agree with everything that you say.

However, that doesn't make suicide a valid option.

I've struggled with suicidal thoughts for years, up until very recently where they just stopped. There is nothing purely logical on either side of the coin here, so it largely depends on your own moral standing, and how you feel at a given moment, but sometimes you just need a good ass-kicking to wake up.

You talk about how you take comfort in the fact that suicide is an option if need be, but the fact of the matter is that until you've done all you can do, you're not done. You can't make life perfect with the wave of a magic wand, and with a thousand pounds on your back, it feels impossible, but moving inch by inch will get you to the end.

You are a human, not a plant. You have survival insticts, you have an underlying desire to keep going, to continue advancing.

But if you have truly and ultimately lost the will to live, it's not our job to help you. We're busy creating the future - our future. I can only ask that you'll help.

 

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