Gaming Question about Jtag and stuf

Youkai · Dec 21, 2010

Hi,
finaly found a shop here rather close to where i live (just half an hour away by train) that sells jtagged xbox 360's
but i have no clue what this all means .

they have 2 different versions
flashed to JTAG-Freeboot Dash V12611 (Kinect)! 199€
and a HDMI version 299€

what does this mean and is it worth to pay 100€ extra only for HDMI i think not ... ?

so is it flashed or jtagged ? or what ? i am completely confused

////////
alex send you pm

Alex666 · Dec 21, 2010

Since youre in germany id like to see that shop could you PM me? =)

marios50 · Dec 21, 2010

u should get the hdmi version.
usually the non - hdmi versions are xenons which are said to get alot of rrod since they were the first xboxes.
the hdmi versions are:falcons,zephyr and jaspers.
i doubt it will be a jasper because they are really expensive.
any of the above you get are great.
Marios

Youkai · Dec 21, 2010

well 299€ is barely 400$ ....

and what does flasehed to jtag freeboot mean ? flashed or jtagged oO?
and do i need to install some more or is everything set with that dashboard version flash thing ?

tk_saturn · Dec 21, 2010

Flashed means he's flashed the NAND. If the drive is flashed, the seller will say so.

That's very expensive, assume the HDMI is a Zephyr. If it were a Falcon, he'd state it as such as they are worth more.

Most XBOX 360 consoles RROD because of the temperatures the GPU runs at. An xbox 360 has 4 temperature sensors (CPU/GPU/EDRAM/MOTHERBOARD) and adjusts the fan speeds based on the first 3. Below are the temperatures a retail console will aim for, with the temperatures in the second column being those at which the console will power off and give the overheating status on the ROL. It won't speed the fans up from their default 40% until those tempertures.

(CPU/GPU/EDRAM) (CPU/GPU/EDRAM)
Jasper 080°C;071°C;073°C - 095°C;090°C;092°C
Falcon 080°C;075°C;078°C - 100°C;100°C;102°C
Zephyr 080°C;075°C;078°C - 100°C;100°C;102°C
Xenon 080°C;083°C;085°C - 100°C;110°C;117°C

As you can see, the fan on the Xenon's GPU doesn't speed up until i hits 83C and won't power off until 110C. It's no wonder they RROD.

Microsoft does this for 'noise' reasons, and is the primary cause of RROD. It is possible to adjust these 'targets', but even on a reasonably used Zephyr/ Falcon the damage has already been done. You want the GPU to remain under 60C at all times to prevent GPU Failure. The GPU is manufactured by TMSC (same people who made all those dodgy Nvidia GPU's, remember all those graphics cards/ desktops/ laptops/ macbooks where were plagued by GPU failure?) , which is why you want to keep the temps down especially on those 2005-2007/8 consoles. The CPU can cope with much higher temperatures.

Bottom line: Either get a Jasper or buy a New/ lightly used Falcon (as in one which has little dust on the Mobo/ Fans and none on the heatsinks when the console was opened to be JTAG'ed). Provided you tweak the fans on a Falcon early in it's life, it should be OK. In Theory a brand new Falcon and Jasper should have a similar lifespan if the fans were adjusted to aim for 60C from when the console was new, the only difference being the fans on the Falcon may run slightly higher.

I have a reasonably used Falcon for sale on another site for £135, shows you what I think of that... I had to hoover the dust of the heatsinks...

If shipping wasn't so expensive, i'd sell you a lighly used or new Falcon via eBay. It's a shame DHL charge so much, I would have expected a discount for shipping to Germany.

A JTAG will only work out of the box if it comes with a HDD. Without a configured HDD, it will boot into the NXE/ Kinect Dashboard just like a Retail console, leaving a 'now what' expression on the face of new owners.

Youkai · Dec 21, 2010

yeah we already spoke about that, would have loved to get the xbox from you ...

but what would be better paying 400$ for that one or buying yours for 135pund + ??? shipping

P.S. in that shop they say there will never be a RRoD because they modified the xbox ... i will post a translated description :

QUOTE said:
BESONDERHEIT:
Die von uns angebotenen Konsolen wurden durch unseren Elektronik-Fachbetrieb neu Reballed.
Das bedeutet, dass die GPU auf dem Motherboard aus- und wieder eingelötet wurde.
Dabei wurde ein spezielles Lot verwendet welches nicht wie das Original Lot bei Temperaturschwankungen reißt uns somit den ROD ( Ring of Death ) verursacht.
Deshalb können wir auf unsere Konsolen eine Garantie von 12 Monaten geben.
Damit gehört der ROD der Vergangenheit an!
Die hier angebotene Konsole verfügt über ein DVD - Laufwerk welches komplett gereinigt und neu justiert wurde.
Es befindet sich die aktuellste Firmware auf dem Laufwerk !
Die gesamte Konsole wurde von innen und außen fachmännisch gereinigt und befindet sich in Bestzustand.
Lieferumfang:

Nur die "nackte" Konsole !

Lieferung ohne Zubehör & ohne Controller!

The offered Console was completely Reballed by our Professional electronic company
that means the GPU was taken out and resoldered.
There was used a special soldering that does not brake at higher heat like the original one making the RRoD.
Thats how we can give a 12 month garantie.
The Drive was completely cleaned and reinstalled.
There is the newest firmware on the drive installed.
The console was cleaned professionally from the inside and the outside.

Only the "nacked" console
shipping without accesory and controler.

tk_saturn · Dec 21, 2010

A Reballed console is better than a reflowed console, but I still wouldn't touch one with a barge pole. It means the console has previously RROD'd. For it to have RROD'd, it would have had a lot of use. $400 for a console which has had a lot of use is way to much.

People pay around £25 for a JTAG'able RROD console. So they are making a lot of money on those. The shell will also not be in spectacular condition, typically the USB flap will be broken on RROD/ RROD fixed consoles.

These are DHL's fees http://www.dhlservicepoint.co.uk/sizeprice.htm

eBay fees are 10% FVF + listing fees, and PayPal will take around 5% for a foreign transaction.

I may have a lightly used Falcon. I have health issues, so i've been struggling to motivate myself to JTAG it. So I won't know until I open the console, but it was brought as a rarely used console. I also have 2 Brand New in Box Falcon Pro's (60GB), likewise i'm struggling myself to JTAG them. So fair both consoles have only been unpacked and powered on for 2 minutes to check were fully working/ dashboard version.

I don't really like the £135 one. It needs fresh thermal paste really, got some MX-2 on order. It seems on consoles which have had a fair amount of use, the ED-RAM temps shoot up. I gather that's because the GPU and ED-RAM are at different heights, and they've used crappy thermal compound. Then when you unscrew the X-Clampsfrom the shell to JTAG them, it upsets the thermal compound on some consoles.

Youkai · Dec 21, 2010

lol just saw its cheaper to get to London by train (from germany) and back than the shipping costs oO

I am starting of thinking about a short trip to london while holliday ^^

tk_saturn · Dec 21, 2010

A bare (ie no PSU) console weights ~3.7KG, A complete Pro/ Elite weighs around ~6.8KG.

I one had someone ask me to ship one to Saudi Arabia, I was in serious shock at the shipping cost.

Youkai · Dec 21, 2010

well up to 5 kg is "only" £37.95 that would be around 45 euro but i don't know where i would get a power supply if not included ...
~70€ for 10kg

problem is i don't think i could jtag myself so i would preffer getting a jtagged one directly.

dunno about your health issues but i could wait if its nothing that would take years to get better ^^

tk_saturn · Dec 21, 2010

You can use either a 175W or 203W PSU on a Falcon. I also have a Zephyr for £125 (Hitachi Drive), likewise I had to hoover the dust off the heatsinks.

I'm intending to Flash the Falcon's drive to newly realeased LT+1.1, although i've never flashed a drive blind before (ie without a dump of the orginal firmware). I've only previously flashed Benq's or 83850 V1's.

Both consoles are working fine with freeBoot 0.04(1)/ DashLaunch 2.07 and have fixed SMC's which allow them to use Play and Charge kits. Most JTAG's don't work properly with play and charge kits (consoles won't power off). Most people use JTAG have patched SMC's either from Xell or the JTAG tools floating, these use Jasper SMC's for Zephyr's / Falcons. All the consoles I have use patched SMC's from their original NAND Dump.

Of the other 3 Falcon consoles, the lighty used should have a Benq and the 2 BNIB should have 73450C's (from their manufacture dates). I will try and JTAG them before the end on the week, because of my health issues I should JTAG them sooner them rather than later...

They've reworded the terms of PayPal's user agreement when selling offsite (ie not on eBay), so I don't know if I would get seller protection shipping to Germany outside of ebay. But if you're prepared to pay the eBay fees, there's no reason why I couldn't do you one through eBay aslong as your address is confirmed (I won't be able to list it as a JTAG as they are banned on eBay). I assumed you would have got yourself a console by now.

Jasper Arcade 256MB

Jasper Arcade 512MB

Falcon Arcade

Zephyr Arcade

Note the temps in those images may be slightly misleading, The consoles weren't on for any specific time, just to take photos which stated the m/b version. The temps only displayed to get the IP addresses assigned from the router (I reserve each console an IP in my routers settings) so I knew which photo belonged to each console. Reserving each console an IP addresses allows you to block them connect to XBOX Live by blocking the IP Range 65.54.0.1-65.55.255.255, you then need to add an exception for 65.55.42.202 so FSD2 can download game covers & screenshots.

If it were me, i'd run the Zephyr fans at 100%, the reasonably used Falcon at 90% (provided fresh thermal compound drops the EDRAM temps, ironically the CPU temps are lower than any other console i've had), the new/ lightly used Falcon should be fine having the temps tweaked to aim for 60C although I have my Jaspers tweaked to aim for 55C. It all depends on how much noise you can put up with.

nico445 · Dec 21, 2010

tk_saturn said:
Both consoles are working fine with freeBoot 0.04(1)/ DashLaunch 2.07 and have fixed SMC's which allow them to use Play and Charge kits. Most JTAG's don't work properly play and charge kits, all the JTAG tools floating around usee Jasper SMC's for Zephyr's / Falcons.

is that why my xbox doesn't turn off when play and charge is attached and why the led keeps red all the time?

tk_saturn · Dec 21, 2010

Yep, the new SMC fix was only released recently. Until then JTAG's had issues such as you describe with Play and Charge Kits.

However, hardly anyone is using the new SMC fix and they have to be generated from your original clean SMC. All the JTAG tools such as easyFreeBoot/ JTAG Tool/ freeBoot Toolbox maker use SMC's from Xell.

Youkai · Dec 21, 2010

omg thats all to much for me oO

well you seem trustworthy and we already talked via pm before ...

if you would recommend me one of these and tell me how much it would be all together ...

dunno about the seller protection but you could look into the feedback forum (well thats no garantee but still ..) as long as i get the ware i happily pay ^^

I am just a noob user who wants to play foreign games like IdolM@ster and such ... no interest in homebrew and i normaly buy the "good" games after i tried them ...
dunno if possible with xbox but best would be if i could just use the data from external hdd .. (well have some DLDVD here already if not possible XD)
just everyting as easy as possible ...

All these pics look the same for me XD just needs to run some time without braking.

and i am not sure about the power ... i have a friend who has one extra BUT we have 220V here so i would need the transformator so that i can only change the plugged in cable to get power.

tk_saturn · Dec 21, 2010

The power supplies should be the same for all of Europe (200V-240V), the 230W is likely to be a 203W misread. They then simply switch the IEC lead which goes from PSU to socket. One of the consoles I have original came from germany, and i'm sure another one also originated from Europe too. I'll go check them later.

JTAG's are region free for almost all games, and DashLaunch 2.07 has a region patch for the small number of games which had a region fix (quantum theory was one)

I'll try and JTAG atleast the lightly used Falcon and then see what's what.

I'll need to know if you need a flashed DVD Drive before I JTAG them. Remember using backup DVD-R's shortens the lifespan of a laser, which is one of the reasons I don't use backups myself.

Youkai · Dec 21, 2010

XD dunno what hit my had i wanted to write 230V
didn't know europ had all the same, only knew that america has way less Volt

I have no clue ...
I ask you, do i need one ?

like i said i have actually nothing and I want to play games ... and if possible not only originals cuz some imports are very expensive and that for a game i can't understand ....

nico445 · Dec 21, 2010

tk_saturn said:
Yep, the new SMC fix was only released recently. Until then JTAG's had issues such as you describe with Play and Charge Kits.

However, hardly anyone is using the new SMC fix and they have to be generated from your original clean SMC. All the JTAG tools such as easyFreeBoot/ JTAG Tool/ freeBoot Toolbox maker use SMC's from Xell.

soo is that a easy firmware fix or does it need to be soldered in a other way? sorry kinda a noob with all the nand stufff

dilav · Dec 21, 2010

nico445 said:
soo is that a easy firmware fix or does it need to be soldered in a other way? sorry kinda a noob with all the nand stufff

you need to desolder one point and solder it to the back of the board, and update your nand before hand.

nico445 · Dec 21, 2010

wtfisausername said:
nico445 said:

soo is that a easy firmware fix or does it need to be soldered in a other way? sorry kinda a noob with all the nand stufff

Click to expand...

you need to desolder one point and solder it to the back of the board, and update your nand before hand.

that sucks :\. can't solder and everytime i dissasemble something i have some screws left over

tk_saturn · Dec 21, 2010

nico445 said:
soo is that a easy firmware fix or does it need to be soldered in a other way? sorry kinda a noob with all the nand stufff

It's easy enough, provided you have an original NAND Dump. You won't need to resolder, provided you configure the SMC for your wiring (ARGON_DATA, AUD_CLAMP, HDMI or TRAY_OPEN). By default the tool uses AUD_CLAMP for TMS, and DB1F1 (or it's alternative points) for TDI. If you're using ARGON_DATA (Ring of light) for TMS, you'll need to make sure you reconfigure it after by running "SMC_UTIL io [smcinputfile] [smcoutputfile] /i" (which performs the same function as the previously released SMC_IO tool) as is stated in the readme that comes with it.

To use Download fbBuild 0.11 and extract, use iBuild (from freeBoot 0.32) to extract your original NAND image to the temp directory. You then run SMC_UTIL on the smc.bin and it will patch the SMC. You then copy the 11 needed files from the temp directory into the data directory and build using fbBuild. Then flash the new image using Xellous.

You can set the console to ignore the play and change kit and power off when the console is shutdown, or you can set it to behave like a retail console and power off once the controller is fully charged.

It's meant to be a little problematic with Xenon's that have SMC version 1.50, flashtool 0.97 will tell you what version SMC you have. He's working on a fix for Xenon 1.50's

The thread is here http://www.xboxhacker.org/index.php?topic=16095.0 but you'll have to register to view it. You can download SMC_UTIL from http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VV9FJ841

SMC is the Xbox 360's "System Management Controller", and is what contains the JTAG exploit which is then injected into the GPU.

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