Hacking SoftChip Backup Loader

roy_hu · Nov 5, 2008

requiem4d said:
QUOTE said:

I compared your code with wiigator's side by side, but couldn't figure out where the problem lies. I also made a few changes I thought might help, but they didn't work. The only way to debug this I can think of, is to replace every piece of your code with wiigator's, until we locate the bug. It must be a very tiny one that we overlooked.

Click to expand...

Feel free do to that, at least to figure out where the problem lies. However, that isn't the proper solution to this issue. While a lot of the calls may be similar (they really have to be) to WiiGator's, this is not based on his loader. I thought of using his code as a base, but decided against it to keep from having to sort through tons of "original application" code. Most of the information used in construction of this loader came from the dip module, wiibrew, information gathered by examining the structure of a Wii disc, and old-fashioned trial and error.

In order to truly have a "fix", we need to analyze the apploader further to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I know this information has already been reversed, but other than the apploader by marcan, bushing, and others, I don't have a very reliable reference on how this particular part works beyond loading the apploader into memory, setting a pointer to a function, and retrieving function pointers needed to load the system file sections, boot, fst, bi2, and main.dol.

It's times like these I wish I knew a little more about the console.

You must have known about this, but in case other people didn't know, I found the following links very useful:
http://dolwin.emulation64.com/docs/Apploader.txt
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=98663

I didn't find anything special that you were doing differently from wiigator. I'm confused why you have a bug

roy_hu · Nov 5, 2008

How about collecting useful technical information at the project's wiki page? Reverse engineering is hard and error prone, so we don't want to lose anything we learned.

WiiPower · Nov 5, 2008

Ok, i think i perhaps found the bug, i searched the loop inside WiiGator's loader and found it, twice:

CODE while (1)
{
void* dst = 0;
int len = 0,offset = 0;
int res = app_main(&dst, &len, &offset);

if (!res){
break;
}

offset = offset

CooLKasT · Nov 5, 2008

Just wanted to say i really appreciate all the hard work of coders like you, and ofcoz WiiGator and Waninkoko and all others!
makes me wanna start programming again, but has been too long ago....

roy_hu · Nov 5, 2008

That's not really a bug. From what I can tell, SoftChip works with 1:1 backups and its logic resembles wiigator's apploader() function. The difference between the two functions bwDVD_LowRead() and DI_Read() is superficial. Under the hood they both use ioctl to read the DVD.

WiiPower said:
Ok, i think i perhaps found the bug, i searched the loop inside WiiGator's loader and found it, twice:

CODE while (1)
{
void* dst = 0;
int len = 0,offset = 0;
int res = app_main(&dst, &len, &offset);

if (!res){
break;
}

offset = offset

requiem4d · Nov 5, 2008

I think I may have found the bug. I made an assumption about the apploader.img when I was coding this that doesn't seem to pan out.

QUOTE said:
Please correct me if i'm wrong but apploader is for 1:1 copies and apploader_backup is for decrypted copies.

You're correct. And while I have made plans to possibly support decrypted discs, it's not a primary goal simply due to the fact that the decrypted discs were a byproduct of Waninkoko's leaked loader. It was released against his wishes, and I'm torn whether or not we should continue to support these. There's a myriad of reasons why continued support of decrypted discs would be a bad thing in the long run.

g00s3y · Nov 5, 2008

there is no longer any reason to support decrypted copies imo. The loader was never supposed to be out in the first place, and if it never was released then there would never be decrypted copies.

SamSpade · Nov 5, 2008

requiem4d said:
And while I have made plans to possibly support decrypted discs, it's not a primary goal simply due to the fact that the decrypted discs were a byproduct of Waninkoko's leaked loader. It was released against his wishes, and I'm torn whether or not we should continue to support these. There's a myriad of reasons why continued support of decrypted discs would be a bad thing in the long run.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't "decrypted discs" (aka "patched") the ones used by "hardware-chipped" wii's to play their backups? Why then would there be any desire to have to use a different (non decrypted) format at all? IE: What if you had access to mutiple wii's, some "hardware-chipped" & some "software-chipped", then you would have to maintain different backup types for each...

Sounds to me like vhs-beta/hddvd-bluray format wars all over again???

-ss-

requiem4d · Nov 6, 2008

Nowhere near. Patched (decrypted) copies were used by Waninkoko's leaked loader, and subsequently by WiiGator's 0.1. They're supported in Gator's 0.3b.

QUOTE said:
Why then would there be any desire to have to use a different (non decrypted) format at all?

Your argument is valid, and matches my own point, but decrypted discs aren't readable on a hardware-chipped wii. The need for decryption was only supposed to be a temporary solution during the course of Waninkoko's dev cycle.

kashin · Nov 6, 2008

*Hops into the convo*

So then wouldn't the logical decision be to let decrypted discs rest, and focus on the improvement of performance itself, aswell as other more wanted/useful features?

DarkLG · Nov 6, 2008

I hope whoever is making it finishes it soon.I would love to test it.

requiem4d · Nov 6, 2008

QUOTE said:
So then wouldn't the logical decision be to let decrypted discs rest, and focus on the improvement of performance itself, aswell as other more wanted/useful features?

If that seems to be the general consensus, I will remove decrypted discs from the project's short term goals entirely, and I for one would be very happy to do so.

SamSpade · Nov 6, 2008

requiem4d said:
The need for decryption was only supposed to be a temporary solution during the course of Waninkoko's dev cycle.

So, my point is valid (even though I had the terminology backwards)... Bottom line is that *both* hardware/software solutions should utilize the same discs... (Non-decrypted, right?)

-ss-

requiem4d · Nov 6, 2008

In a word, yes.

vettacossx · Nov 6, 2008

computability is Not as good as of right now with the 1:1's on current loaders IMO ios247 with 0.1 was indeed slower reads but more games played decrypted (WITH A LOT LESS READ ERRORS I MIGHT ADD) than do on IOS249 with 0.3 loader of wiigators....So My question is this:

By including the Patched game support does it decrease the computability of your loader in regard to 1:1 computability?If not then why not leave it ON the list and make it a LOW PRIORITY as it was? Also IF you do decide to drop support for patched games and we are left with stacks of wasted dvd's due to our preferences.. Would you be willing to release your source? so that others could add it in an unofficial build?...will the source always be public and updated, made available? so that a feature you are not interested in implementing like patched games but others may desire to have. (or find important to them as far as not wasting the once working dvd's) not trying to ask you/ pressure you to do anything your goals are I am sure in order for what you have in mind...But i wondered are you open to others benefiting from your contributions and code. Or are you more in this as a personal goal not really as a fellow gamer like wiigator but as a coding feat?? Not that there is anything wrong with that...Just curious to your intents on a personal level and how strict your going to be with the loaders flexibility in regard to working with others to make a unofficial build for decrypted games if hypothetically speaking one were interested in doing so.

Thanks in advanced for your time and for sharing the project with us at all

20clarky08 · Nov 6, 2008

i think removal of Decrypted discs is the right way to go also...especially since as stated above that decrypted discs arent readable by hard-modded wii's.

i think just for overall compability between all ways of modding 1:1 is the way to go

btw guys am willing to take one for the team to test this out :-) ( got 2 wii's now )

requiem4d · Nov 6, 2008

A couple of issues to address here.

QUOTE said:
computability is Not as good as of right now with the 1:1's on current loaders IMO ios247 with 0.1 was indeed slower reads but more games played decrypted (WITH A LOT LESS READ ERRORS I MIGHT ADD) than do on IOS249 with 0.3 loader of wiigators....So My question is this:

By including the Patched game support does it decrease the computability of your loader in regard to 1:1 computability?

Current compatibility issues between 1:1 discs and decrypted discs are almost definitely an issue with the cIOS. SoftChip should improve compatibility due to carefully audited memory accesses and an broader testing user base.

QUOTE said:

Also IF you do decide to drop support for patched games and we are left with stacks of wasted dvd's due to our preferences.. Would you be willing to release your source?

Just because it's not a project "goal", doesn't mean it won't be implemented. Also, the source is GPL, and will always be available. Should I decide not to continue the project, anyone is free to take the sources and do with it what they see fit. The only requirement is that whomever releases anything based off SoftChip will be required to release his/her sources as well. That's the beauty of free software and open source.

QUOTE

Click to expand...

Or are you more in this as a personal goal not really as a fellow gamer like wiigator but as a coding feat?? Not that there is anything wrong with that...Just curious to your intents on a personal level and how strict your going to be with the loaders flexibility in regard to working with others to make a unofficial build for decrypted games if hypothetically speaking one were interested in doing so.

This is a bit of both. It's a personal goal first and foremost, but here's the kicker. I have 6 kids, 1 wii, and not a lot of money to keep replacing scratched discs.

quim69 · Nov 6, 2008

Dropping support for bastardised/decrypted discs makes sense to me - pointless keeping them now.

It was a temporary solution that is no longer needed.

requiem4d · Nov 6, 2008

I can confirm the apploader bug is now fixed. I'll commit to svn shortly.

apu2009 · Nov 6, 2008

requiem4d said:
QUOTE said:

Or are you more in this as a personal goal not really as a fellow gamer like wiigator but as a coding feat?? Not that there is anything wrong with that...Just curious to your intents on a personal level and how strict your going to be with the loaders flexibility in regard to working with others to make a unofficial build for decrypted games if hypothetically speaking one were interested in doing so.

Click to expand...

This is a bit of both. It's a personal goal first and foremost, but here's the kicker. I have 6 kids, 1 wii, and not a lot of money to keep replacing scratched discs.

Not to mention that bricking your one Wii would really suck xD (I started looking at the source code by the way =D)

Hacking SoftChip Backup Loader

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