"Game Porting Toolkit" by Apple will allow Windows games to run on Mac, similar to Proton on Linux

LokeYourLord · Jun 8, 2023

Sl4sh said:
Yeah you're bs*ing here a lot. M1 was a total game changer...to the point where it doesn't even NEEDS fans for the base M1 and M2. Battery life and performance per watt is the best there is in the entire industry, better than intel's and better than AMD's for all of the M series chips. No current Macbook will "melt down into a liquid pile of trash", much less running something as simple as StarDew Valley when you can play games as demanding Shadow of the Tomb Raider (you can look it up in the AppStore, I can't post links in the forum).
Also Apple (by revenue) is one of the biggest gaming companies in the world (again you can look up The WallStreet Journal article about it, I can't post links in the forum) . It is only logical that now that they want to become a serious place for gamers to be and they have the resources to make it happen.
On your last point you are right tough, if you're really into gaming buy a gaming PC. It will take years for macOS to become a serious gaming platform and even so it will always be second to Windows.

Apple is a cancer and stain to the idea of creativity and free will with their walled garden approach. I've been working with Linux and Windows before Apple even knew what gaming was/is, and have been equally as much an adept gamer. I don't care for revenue, it's a lame argument people use to prove that they know little or nothing about actual gaming, PCs, and technology overall. The copycat chinese sweatshop company can't in my opinion die fast enough, they're making everyone around the world actively dumber by merely existing, and you can quote me on that. You can see this technological illiteracy basically anywhere with almost anyone these days, and it's in large parts thanks to the existence of our favourite walled garden sweatshop company. People falling for their advertising and them generating "revenue" doesn't prove anything, only that people are becoming ever dumber thanks to said company and people being happy with less, and having their opinions defined by a corporation. Nobody serious would ever game on an Apple device if they want to do more than just "play" on it just like on a Phone. And I do not consider Candy Crush or the likes as gaming either.

Last but not least, casual gaming is very distinct from actual, more in-depth gaming, so anyone wanting to do more cool stuff with their system or games, is certainly in the wrong spot thinking Apple can even remotely supply them with any of that. It also limits the ability of users to even discover anything interesting, be it games or tools or otherwise, and so thanks to the walled garden, everyone gets to do and learn... nothing! Yay! What a great world to live in where people are eventually thinking all their tools and devices are just working like magic...

But by all means, if you want to go that route, I'm all for the freedom of choice, but don't believe for a second that Apple does this for anything other than profit, which isn't what the true core heart of gaming is about. And if that is everything you care about, pure profit and the capitalist aspect of it for your arguments to somehow prove that this stain on the world is doing anything good at all, then you're free to go with Apple, we won't cry for the loss. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy games with my friends and girlfriend while doing a hell lot more on the PCs than purely just gaming, because we have the freedom and capabilities to do so (especially after she bought a Desktop that I recommended her, she's been a lot happier with it since).

TLDR: Apple still sucks, makes the world actively worse and dumber, and doesn't even compare to a fully fledged Gaming Desktop, and never will because of their walled garden approach and how they treat their customers as sheep for profit.

Guacaholey · Jun 8, 2023

TheNintendoEnthusiast said:
PKHex on Mac!! That's what I'd use this for!!

PKHex works fine on Wine as long as you get an up to date version and install the necessary run times.

Sl4sh · Jun 8, 2023

LokeYourLord said:
Apple is a cancer and stain to the idea of creativity and free will with their walled garden approach. I've been working with Linux and Windows before Apple even knew what gaming was/is, and have been equally as much an adept gamer. I don't care for revenue, it's a lame argument people use to prove that they know little or nothing about actual gaming, PCs, and technology overall. The copycat chinese sweatshop company can't in my opinion die fast enough, they're making everyone around the world actively dumber by merely existing, and you can quote me on that. You can see this technological illiteracy basically anywhere with almost anyone these days, and it's in large parts thanks to the existence of our favorite walled garden sweatshop company. People falling for their advertising and them generating "revenue" doesn't prove anything, only that people are becoming ever dumber thanks to said company and people being happy with less, and having their opinions defined by a corporation. Nobody serious would ever game on an Apple device if they want to do more than just "play" on it just like on a Phone. And I do not consider Candy Crush or the likes as gaming either.

Last but not least, casual gaming is very distinct from actual, more in-depth gaming, so anyone wanting to do more cool stuff with their system or games, is certainly in the wrong spot thinking Apple can even remotely supply them with any of that. It also limits the ability of users to even discover anything interesting, be it games or tools or otherwise, and so thanks to the walled garden, everyone gets to do and learn... nothing! Yay! What a great world to live in where people are eventually thinking all their tools and devices are just working like magic...

But by all means, if you want to go that route, I'm all for the freedom of choice, but don't believe for a second that Apple does this for anything other than profit, which isn't what the true core heart of gaming is about. And if that is everything you care about, pure profit and the capitalist aspect of it for your arguments to somehow prove that this stain on the world is doing anything good at all, then you're free to go with Apple, we won't cry for the loss. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy games with my friends and girlfriend while doing a hell lot more on the PCs than purely just gaming, because we have the freedom and capabilities to do so (especially after she bought a Desktop that I recommended her, she's been a lot happier with it since).

TLDR: Apple still sucks, makes the world actively worse and dumber, and doesn't even compare to a fully fledged Gaming Desktop, and never will because of their walled garden approach and how they treat their customers as sheep for profit.

LOL, grow up and stop being so butthurt.
Every company does it for the money Nvidia, SONY, Nintendo, Valve, it doesn't matter, they are all publicly traded and are LEGALLY obligated to make as much money as possible for their investors. If you don't get that you have a childish view of the world.
I agree that Apple does stupid stuff, but macOS is not locked to the walled garden (it certainly has features to make it attractive to those in the garden though, but you can live without them). Wanna disable system integrity protection and modify the root filesystem? Go ahead, you have the freedom to do so. Apple doesn't make the world dumber, they make technology more accesible for those not technologically inclined. It takes two seconds to open the Terminal in macOS, install HomeBrew and start to make the exact same things you can do in Linux.
Based on the way you speak it looks like you have never used any Apple software/hardware and all you do is spit out hate about something that doesn't really affect your life.
I don't use a Mac, just like you I use Linux and Windows but I'm happy for those with a Mac that will finally be able to play any modern AAA games.
Like it or not Apple is here to stay, they are by far the most successful consumer hardware company and what they do matters because everyone in the industry follows their lead. I honestly hope they take a more gaming friendly approach in macOS so that gamers have more places to play.

langston · Jun 8, 2023

LokeYourLord said:
Apple is a cancer and stain to the idea of creativity and free will with their walled garden approach. I've been working with Linux and Windows before Apple even knew what gaming was/is, and have been equally as much an adept gamer. I don't care for revenue, it's a lame argument people use to prove that they know little or nothing about actual gaming, PCs, and technology overall. The copycat chinese sweatshop company can't in my opinion die fast enough, they're making everyone around the world actively dumber by merely existing, and you can quote me on that. You can see this technological illiteracy basically anywhere with almost anyone these days, and it's in large parts thanks to the existence of our favourite walled garden sweatshop company. People falling for their advertising and them generating "revenue" doesn't prove anything, only that people are becoming ever dumber thanks to said company and people being happy with less, and having their opinions defined by a corporation. Nobody serious would ever game on an Apple device if they want to do more than just "play" on it just like on a Phone. And I do not consider Candy Crush or the likes as gaming either.

Last but not least, casual gaming is very distinct from actual, more in-depth gaming, so anyone wanting to do more cool stuff with their system or games, is certainly in the wrong spot thinking Apple can even remotely supply them with any of that. It also limits the ability of users to even discover anything interesting, be it games or tools or otherwise, and so thanks to the walled garden, everyone gets to do and learn... nothing! Yay! What a great world to live in where people are eventually thinking all their tools and devices are just working like magic...

But by all means, if you want to go that route, I'm all for the freedom of choice, but don't believe for a second that Apple does this for anything other than profit, which isn't what the true core heart of gaming is about. And if that is everything you care about, pure profit and the capitalist aspect of it for your arguments to somehow prove that this stain on the world is doing anything good at all, then you're free to go with Apple, we won't cry for the loss. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy games with my friends and girlfriend while doing a hell lot more on the PCs than purely just gaming, because we have the freedom and capabilities to do so (especially after she bought a Desktop that I recommended her, she's been a lot happier with it since).

TLDR: Apple still sucks, makes the world actively worse and dumber, and doesn't even compare to a fully fledged Gaming Desktop, and never will because of their walled garden approach and how they treat their customers as sheep for profit.

Can your dumb ass please explain everything in this comment in depth

TheNintendoEnthusiast · Jun 8, 2023

Guacaholey said:
PKHex works fine on Wine as long as you get an up to date version and install the necessary run times.

I haven't tried in the last few months. But when I tried, I couldn't install the Net7 dependency. I looked into it, but I couldn't find any decent way to install it. I also have an M1 machine, so I am not sure if there is better support for Intel, or if there has been new updates since the last time I checked.

EDIT: I looked around and still didn't see anything. In older versions of PKHex I was able to get it to work, but I do not want to use older versions if I can avoid it. I have been using a Windows VM instead! It gets the job done.

ShadF0x · Jun 8, 2023

SylverReZ said:
Let's see how that goes, shall we? At least it will run better than Wine on Linux.

Either bait or you have zero idea what you're talking about. I'll bite regardless.

Due to "ingenuity" of Apple (and total disregard of widely accepted tech for the last 6-or-so years), this thing goes Windows -> Wine -> Intel 64 -> Rosetta -> ARMv8.5-A for general stuff, and DirectX -> ??? -> Metal or Vulkan -> MoltenVK -> Metal (except it doesn't even do Vulkan right now) for graphics.

It cannot run "better than Wine on Linux" because Rosetta alone cuts performance down by 20%.

matpower · Jun 9, 2023

SylverReZ said:
Let's see how that goes, shall we? At least it will run better than Wine on Linux.

It's unfortunate that the first reply to this thread is pure and unadulterated bullshit.

This whole shebang is Wine (Crossover is Wine with a few extra patches. Codeweavers actively helps with Wine development with money and expertise) and a fancy DX12 to Metal pipeline. If it weren't for the fact Apple refuses to adopt Vulkan, this would've been possible from get go using DXVK which is so good it is even being used on Windows. As matter of fact, I believe it also works if you throw in MoltenVK to do DX -> VK -> Metal right now, it's just not as good because MoltenVK hurts performance.

And of course, Wine on Linux is so good Valve has a commercial product based on it (Steam Deck) while Macfags are happy Apple has given them a (worthless in the long run) toolkit that does the same thing Linux users have been enjoying in the past five years or so.

But yeah, let's see how it goes. Maybe you guys will finally catch up to 2019-era Linux now. It irks me to no end that such a great hardware platform (M1/M2 chips) is tied to the most asinine software stack ever, at very least add Vulkan support FFS.

RHOPKINS13 · Jun 9, 2023

DaniPoo said:
What's your problem? This is a step in the right direction right? Macs are getting better than ever for running games, and you're complaining that it not going to be as good as Proton before even giving it a chance. Stop being a lame hater.

You're missing the point. I'm not being a lame hater. But rather than creating this separate "game porting toolkit", if they worked on getting Proton working on Mac (Wine already runs on Mac; I can't imagine this being very difficult to do), and collaborate with Valve on improving Proton, then EVERYBODY benefits, Mac users included, and I can guarantee the result will be much better than what they're going to get from this.

IRUZZ · Jun 10, 2023

I wish they'd drop Metal once and for all and just use Vulkan like every other sane OS

urbanman2004 · Jun 11, 2023

I don't foresee this phase in Apple's so-called awakening lasting long...

Urbanshadow · Jun 12, 2023

This is just a devkit for ports of the games to be published in the app store. With some luck Apple users will see new M1/2 compatible games to purchase in the app store.

sdsdsdsdsdsdsds · Jun 21, 2023

HarveyHouston said:
So, you can't actually run Windows games on Mac OS, but you could install Windows depending on the Mac you own. Interesting.

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