[UPDATE] Dolphin's release on Steam indefinitely delayed after Nintendo sends cease & desist order to Valve

17hitcombooo · May 29, 2023

if they ever dropped mario galaxy 2 on switch i bet nintendo would do a limited release because fuck you we like to have our games to burn in the second hand market

ertaboy356b · May 29, 2023

NinStar said:
I doubt, every mainline 3D Super Mario game to date has been designed with the primary goal of taking advantage of a console's gimmick, the only reason Super Mario Galaxy 2 exists is because the developers wanted to expand on the original game in some sort of revision, but there were so many things that they decided it was worth a sequel. I don't believe this would happen again with Odyssey because it's been so long that they would have done something if they really wanted to expand on the first game in a way that would make a sequel worthwhile.

Bowser's Fury is the test bed for the next 3D mario game, so expect an open world mario game like Sonic Frontier.

mrgone · May 29, 2023

sorry, but what did they expect?
that emulators are now "accepted" by the hardware manufacturer and are welcomed into the steam "store" ?

Noctosphere · May 29, 2023

NinStar said:
I doubt, every mainline 3D Super Mario game to date has been designed with the primary goal of taking advantage of a console's gimmick, the only reason Super Mario Galaxy 2 exists is because the developers wanted to expand on the original game in some sort of revision, but there were so many things that they decided it was worth a sequel. I don't believe this would happen again with Odyssey because it's been so long that they would have done something if they really wanted to expand on the first game in a way that would make a sequel worthwhile.

When i said it was part of the same series, i meant about the gameplay
As in that Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy +2 and Super Mario Odyssey are all part of the same series

linuxares · May 29, 2023

https://gonintendo.com/contents/209...ator-dmca-says-the-project-stifles-innovation

Bladexdsl · May 29, 2023

complete load of bs stifles innovation? more like stifles their ability to drip feed these games through their NSO where you will rent these games!!

tabzer · May 29, 2023

mrgone said:
sorry, but what did they expect?
that emulators are now "accepted" by the hardware manufacturer and are welcomed into the steam "store" ?

They thought that the hardware manufacturer didn't have a say in the matter.

linuxares said:
https://gonintendo.com/contents/209...ator-dmca-says-the-project-stifles-innovation

"ultimately stifles innovation". What they should say, if they are being honest, is that it stifles their profiting off of lazy ports and forces them to become innovative. Look how creative their DMCA game is becoming.

17hitcombooo · May 29, 2023

innovation? is releasing games on nso at a pace slower than a snail innovative?

Ampersound · May 29, 2023

mrgone said:
sorry, but what did they expect?
that emulators are now "accepted" by the hardware manufacturer and are welcomed into the steam "store" ?

They are, retroarch is on steam.
It's just that Dolphin contains Nintendo's public Wii key in the sourcecode.

mrgone · May 29, 2023

Ampersound said:
They are, retroarch is on steam.

LightBeam · May 29, 2023

Ampersound said:
They are, retroarch is on steam.
It's just that Dolphin contains Nintendo's public Wii key in the sourcecode.

You know that even without that key they wouldn't have filed a DMCA nonetheless. They probably don't even understand what RetroArch is, nor that it's up on Steam.

retrospect · May 29, 2023

Does Github hide the repository download button when you're on a mobile browser? That's not great, or rational.

smf · May 29, 2023

AkikoKumagara said:
A user providing their own NAND or key.bin files would move the circumvention of security to the end user rather than the emulator as the user would then be providing the emulator the means to do that.

It wouldn't, there is still code in the emulator to bypass DRM. It would still be covered by the DMCA.

I'm not sure what would happen if they only made it work with decrypted dumps. They might then go for contributory copyright infringement, which if they could argue that it's an organised crime group, then they could get an arrest warrant.

If you ever think "I have a great idea, I'll make this emulator for a competing platform available easily" then you're nuts.

sarkwalvein · May 29, 2023

smf said:
It wouldn't, there is still code in the emulator to bypass DRM. It would still be covered by the DMCA.

If you mean code to decrypt the game when a suitable encryption key is provided, then that code enforces, not bypasses, the DRM. That is, it only decrypts the game if you provide the suitable key, it does not bypass the mechanism... and also this code is an open standard and it is used everywhere, even old wireless home automation devices... but I guess an old smart lamp is breaking Wii's DRM...

aoikurayami · May 29, 2023

Meanwhile: "Ninty using Emulators emselves to emulate their own games for 60 bucks a pop"

smf · May 29, 2023

sarkwalvein said:
If you mean code to decrypt the game when a suitable encryption key is provided, then that code enforces, not bypasses, the DRM. That is, it only decrypts the game if you provide the suitable key, it does not bypass the mechanism... and also this code is an open standard and it is used everywhere, even old wireless home automation devices... but I guess an old smart lamp is breaking Wii's DRM...

So the DMCA covers all that. If the Wii uses the same algorithm as another device, then just the act of telling someone that breaks the DMCA.

It doesn't enforce the DRM either. Dolphin is not using Wii discs, on a Wii. Which is what the DRM is forcing you to do. Console DRM has been pretty well supported by the courts. You can't use a "but homebrew" defense, they know it's a lie.

Fighting DMCA in court would get very expensive as the entire game & movie industry will want to make sure you lose.

But it's still better than if they decide to slap you with contributory copyright infringement.

aoikurayami said:
Meanwhile: "Ninty using Emulators emselves to emulate their own games for 60 bucks a pop"

As copyright holders, that is their legal right.

AkikoKumagara · May 29, 2023

smf said:
It wouldn't, there is still code in the emulator to bypass DRM. It would still be covered by the DMCA.

There is not. The common key being provided is the problem. They're not bypassing DRM, they're providing the key that decrypts content rather than forcing the user to provide it.

sarkwalvein said:
If you mean code to decrypt the game when a suitable encryption key is provided, then that code enforces, not bypasses, the DRM. That is, it only decrypts the game if you provide the suitable key, it does not bypass the mechanism... and also this code is an open standard and it is used everywhere, even old wireless home automation devices... but I guess an old smart lamp is breaking Wii's DRM...

This is accurate. Again, requiring the user to provide their own key puts the onus on the user. Providing the key as the Dolphin Team has done is a huge mistake that opens the door to Nintendo having a valid argument to take further action against the emulator in the future, if they so choose.

smf said:
It doesn't enforce the DRM either. Dolphin is not using Wii discs, on a Wii. Which is what the DRM is forcing you to do. Console DRM has been pretty well supported by the courts. You can't use a "but homebrew" defense, they know it's a lie.

The DRM doesn't care whether you're using Wii discs on a Wii, it's simple AES encryption/decryption. This is why DVD backups of Wii games can exist and function. This was patched later by a hardware revision, not in software. The "DRM" just decrypts content on-the-fly using the key the Dolphin Team has decided to provide as a "fallback" (that's the claim, but we know most people don't provide their own NAND backup for Dolphin).

Nintendo Wii's security isn't fantastic and we all know this. This is why I'm confident the developers working on Dolphin can come up with a better solution than providing something to the user that they never should have. They fucked up.

tabzer · May 29, 2023

DMCIA, brought to you by the president who disputed the definition of "is" to lie about his sexual exploitation. That's what we are working with here. That mess needs to be purged. Despite @smf being a complete tool, he is embracing the spirit of DMCIA. Maybe we should thank him for being a devil's advocate and forcing us to contemplate useless arguments that will never weigh in on non-existing cases.

Xzi · May 29, 2023

linuxares said:
https://gonintendo.com/contents/209...ator-dmca-says-the-project-stifles-innovation

Translation: we hate emulators because we wanted to hold the sole patent on them and sell you half-assed emulated games for $60 a pop.

linuxares · May 29, 2023

Xzi said:
Translation: we hate emulators because we wanted to hold the sole patent on them and sell you half-assed emulated games for $60 a pop.

Hey now... you forgot timed emulated games!

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