[UPDATE] Dolphin's release on Steam indefinitely delayed after Nintendo sends cease & desist order to Valve

SubstituteCS · May 28, 2023

Xzi said:
I'm not particularly interested in the how or the why of it, more just the outcome: Nintendo consistently struggles far more than their competitors with preventing the most rudimentary of exploits. To the extent that I question whether they even employ a hardware QA team at all.

This has nothing to do with hardware QA.

The Xbox 360 was defeated even more simply by utilizing a JTAG port that was still enabled.

Nintendo did actually implement good security for the time. It's just completely broken nearly 20 years later.

If you want an example of a system that didn't even try, take a look at the Sega Dreamcast.

linuxares · May 28, 2023

SubstituteCS said:
This has nothing to do with hardware QA.

The Xbox 360 was defeated even more simply by utilizing a JTAG port that was still enabled.

Nintendo did actually implement good security for the time. It's just completely broken nearly 20 years later.

If you want an example of a system that didn't even try, take a look at the Sega Dreamcast.

Same with the CDi. It had the best disc protection off being bloody expensive instead.

Xzi · May 28, 2023

SubstituteCS said:
This has nothing to do with hardware QA.

The Xbox 360 was defeated even more simply by utilizing a JTAG port that was still enabled.

Nintendo did actually implement good security for the time. It's just completely broken nearly 20 years later.

If you want an example of a system that didn't even try, take a look at the Sega Dreamcast.

What compounds the issue exponentially is the fact that Nintendo refuses to make their old games available to purchase or play by any "official" means. They're literally the only company stupid enough to operate this way, as Sony still sells a lot of "greatest hits" discs and Microsoft gives you Game Pass/backward compatibility to the OG Xbox. If the only accessible means of playing a game is through emulation/piracy, that's how people are going to play it, and Ninty has no right to try to prevent that unless they're going to provide an alternative.

Put simply:

quote-piracy-is-almost-always-a-service-problem-gabe-newell-136-61-10.jpg

tech3475 · May 28, 2023

The Wii had poor software QA, it didn’t wipe keys when booting into GC mode (at least with earlier system software) and IOS has/had numerous issues.

One of the homebrew devs IIRC even said they could have implemented a relatively secure homebrew IOS/mode if they wanted to.

The Dreamcast did have security, but it also supported another format on earlier revisions, MIL-CD, which was exploited for warez.

For consoles with no protection, CD wise you’d be looking at consoles like the Sega/Mega CD which were from before CD-Rs were common.

SubstituteCS · May 28, 2023

Xzi said:
What compounds the issue exponentially is the fact that Nintendo refuses to make their old games available to purchase or play by any "official" means. They're literally the only company stupid enough to operate this way, as Sony still sells a lot of "greatest hits" discs and Microsoft gives you Game Pass/backward compatibility to the OG Xbox. If the only accessible means of playing a game is through emulation/piracy, that's how people are going to play it, and Ninty has no right to try to prevent that unless they're going to provide an alternative.

Put simply:

View attachment 374356

As much as I hate it, they actually do have that right.

Just as much as we have the right to emulate the systems using legal software.

Dolphin just needs to remove the keys and everything will be fine. Nintendo hasn't even sent the project a C&D yet.

Hassal · May 28, 2023

Kioku said:
No it won’t.

Like it or not, Nintendo is the only company publishing solid performers. Their momentum isn’t slowing any time
soon.

I’d love to see them fall though… actually, I wish all of them would fall… This modern age of gaming is such a dumpster fire.

I'm going to disagree with that> Sony is the only consistent company releasing banging IP year after another, while your Nintendo you are praising only have Zelda which only happen to release another Zelda game after 6 years.

tech3475 · May 28, 2023

SubstituteCS said:
As much as I hate it, they actually do have that right.

Just as much as we have the right to emulate the systems using legal software.

Dolphin just needs to remove the keys and everything will be fine. Nintendo hasn't even sent the project a C&D yet.

Allot of what Nintendo’s lawyers do seems to be ‘just because you can, doesn’t mean you should’.

There’s a difference between e.g. a Pokemon ROM hack and a ROM site selling pirated games.

In this case it just feels petty, all Dolphin has to do is make the key a separate text file which will likely be widely distributed and/or support pre-decrypted games and hypothetically it’s business as usual.

peteruk · May 28, 2023

Just thinking out loud here (to those who don't really know me I have a very active imagination), with that said if Nintendo did decide to sue the Dolphin creators I wonder if we'd see the public re-emergence of anonymous.

Now if you think back to 2011 when Sony went after Geohot and Graf_Chokolo we saw anonymous go after Sony with all kinds of threats

A reminder (for context)..

I'm sure they're probably keeping an eye on things (as always)

17hitcombooo · May 28, 2023

Xzi said:
What compounds the issue exponentially is the fact that Nintendo refuses to make their old games available to purchase or play by any "official" means. They're literally the only company stupid enough to operate this way, as Sony still sells a lot of "greatest hits" discs and Microsoft gives you Game Pass/backward compatibility to the OG Xbox. If the only accessible means of playing a game is through emulation/piracy, that's how people are going to play it, and Ninty has no right to try to prevent that unless they're going to provide an alternative.

Put simply:

View attachment 374356

why does nintendo ignore this?? they could easily make money if they rerelease their titles. are they really that ignorant about their customers and having a easier way to (legally) play their library? nintendo has like maybe the strongest library of games and like not even half it is available that benefits them financially.

CorteX_ · May 28, 2023

What a surprise. Shit company that can't make games for shit anymore shits on people that make cool shit. If you do what Nintendon't prepare to get shut down.

Xzi · May 28, 2023

17hitcombooo said:
why does nintendo ignore this?? they could easily make money if they rerelease their titles. are they really that ignorant about their customers and having a easier way to (legally) play their library? nintendo has like maybe the strongest library of games and like not even half it is available that benefits them financially.

I can only speculate that it's out of sheer pettiness and ego, they believe their games are "special" and therefore deserve to be more scarce and expensive than any others as a result. Ninty wears the fact that their games are the most pirated like a badge of honor, when really it will only ever be an indictment on their availability.

megahog2012 · May 28, 2023

Kinda reminds me of the old "Vault" scam Disney pulled for years until streaming services hit the big leagues

Ryccardo · May 28, 2023

Xzi said:
I can only speculate that it's out of sheer pettiness and ego

This (not as much the rest) - They're in for the world domination, not the money or fame (though those may be the means to an end?), if you have a few hours to fill go read Hackmii start to nearly-end to understand what they think of someone making the Wii an open-ish platform without wanting anything to do with "game backups"

Oh, on that website (as well as Wiibrew and Yum Yum Bakery) you'll also find the common key, which I agree is not copyrighted according to the previous discussion here and neither is a protection implement (don't need one to play pirate copies, which of course are 100% the same as a personal use backup, on a real Wii), and of course a sufficiently accurate Wii emulator (although Dolphin isn't one) primarily exists for interoperability of your computer with Wii software, doesn't it?

Bladexdsl · May 28, 2023

spotanjo3 said:
Nintendo, you are done!

they will never be done because their fanbase are morons. no mater how bad and dated their hardware is, how shitty and cheap their controllers are, how much of a joke their online is or how terrible their zelda is now. these idiots will always blindly support and throw money at their feet!

NinStar · May 28, 2023

TotalJustice said:
If that's how it played out, it's a bit strange from Valves to part to even both asking Nintendo. We all know their stance on emulation. Though I guess it was more asking "are we legally okay to do this?", to which Nintendo said "no".

It is weird because everyone knows Nintendo will always say no, even if it is legal.

DJPlace · May 28, 2023

if nintendo wanted to shut up Dolphin they could of took down the source of this them sevles. i really don't see the point in doing this unless i missed reading something.

r1vver · May 28, 2023

Nintendo key is in the source code...
They got off easy!
Should sue these imbies on behalf of and in defense of real dolphins (intelligent aquatic mammals) demanding the emulator name to be changed. With payment of the amount of damage to reputation.

sarkwalvein · May 28, 2023

SubstituteCS said:
Nintendo did actually implement good security for the time. It's just completely broken nearly 20 years later.

strncmp(binary_hash_expected, binary_hash_current, binary_hash_length)
...
.....
yeah, good security. /s
peer reviewed code. /s
not a problem there. /s

smf · May 28, 2023

Kioku said:
Nintendo really grasping for straws here. Wonder when they’ll go after Retroarch.

Hopefully soon, the guy behind RA is just awful.

64bitmodels · May 28, 2023

..... i don't give a fuck

Dolphin was easy enough to install on Steam as is

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The inadequate, autocratic beast!

Time to fly, 621

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Officer Balls.... BWAAHAHAHAH

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Penguin accelerator

fanboys triggered 9k+

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going hire Ronald McDonald To Gun Down Nintendo.

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There's hope for a Xenosaga port.

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