Steam dropping support for Windows 7 and 8 starting on 2024

sombrerosonic · Mar 30, 2023

xScarYx said:
this is true. but only if u still live in the year 2012. now in the year 2023 gaming on linux is on a good spot and its getting better with the support of valve.
Programs/Games these day are mostly running good or perfect, sometimes even better than on windows.
plz stop spreading false information and inform yourself better about this topic, before posting nonsense.

Wine is known for providing horrid compatibility. alot of software used to run adobe products and office mainly software that are used widely in the industry are unsupported on linux or wine for a few reasons.

A. Not as used on desktops
B. The amount of time and effort used to build these versions is a great as Windows/Mac OS
C. Wine is pretty shitty for compatibility
D. Not everything is on steam, AKA EA Store/Battle.net/Epic Store/Adobe cloud/etc

Like you said, "plz stop spreading false information and inform yourself better about this topic, before posting nonsense."

sypherce · Mar 30, 2023

RedColoredStars said:
Suggesting user-unfriendly Linux to people when the majority barely understand the basics of Windows is amusing at best. Linux sucks and will never catch up to Windows. Ever. Been hearing about it's big takeover for over 30 years now. Still waiting.

pokota · Mar 30, 2023

xScarYx said:
this is true. but only if u still live in the year 2012. now in the year 2023 gaming on linux is on a good spot and its getting better with the support of valve.
Programs/Games these day are mostly running good or perfect, sometimes even better than on windows.
plz stop spreading false information and inform yourself better about this topic, before posting nonsense.

There's still plenty of obstacles though. Steam uses Proton which is built on Wine, but Linux Steam ends up mandating multiarch which screws with unchrooted build environments and can cause incompatibilities with weird things (I use a custom build of Dosbox-X and every time Steam's prereqs updates I have to figure out what got shredded this time. It's usually libfluidsynth-dev since that doesn't play well with multiarch, but not always).

If the game you're playing only comes in x64 builds then you basically need to install wine directly and set up an x64 prefix, which is easier than it sounds but you do have to be mindful of which prefix you're in. Steam's Proton is a customized Wine but it's still just a 32-bit prefix at the end of the day.

On the topic of bloatware linux and unfriendly desktop environments: LXQt is probably my preference - low bloat and is windows-like in its presentation. LXDE is even lighter and even more windows-like but the maintainer is preferring to devote their time to LXQt instead so I can't in good conscience recommend LXDE any more. But I still don't really suggest linux as an outright replacement. Dual boot is the way to go (microsoft's monopoly on operating system market share really screwed over driver development so even if Wine has good compatibility there's no guarantee that the foss drivers for your system will work as expected and fixing those issues is nontrivial). If your distribution doesn't offer LXQt or LXDE as a desktop environment at initial setup, it's probably not a good idea to suggest it to others as a Windows Alternative since then you also have a new desktop paradigm on top of the Linux Learning Curve.

xScarYx · Mar 31, 2023

pokota said:
There's still plenty of obstacles though. Steam uses Proton which is built on Wine, but Linux Steam ends up mandating multiarch which screws with unchrooted build environments and can cause incompatibilities with weird things (I use a custom build of Dosbox-X and every time Steam's prereqs updates I have to figure out what got shredded this time. It's usually libfluidsynth-dev since that doesn't play well with multiarch, but not always).

yeah thats true, but the casual games doesnt need to use a custom build of dosbox, the normal will do the job most of the time.

Post automatically merged: Mar 31, 2023

pokota said:
If the game you're playing only comes in x64 builds then you basically need to install wine directly and set up an x64 prefix, which is easier than it sounds but you do have to be mindful of which prefix you're in. Steam's Proton is a customized Wine but it's still just a 32-bit prefix at the end of the day.

Thats false. Steam Proton supports 64-Bit out of the Box.
my x64 games, like Warframe, DarkSouls2SOTFS,FF14x64,Star Wars - The Old Republic(which got a x64 update few days ago),Remnant from the Ashes are all working fine with proton. Not 100% sure which arch Prey,Returnal, Elite Dangerous, Battlefield1 and the RE7,8/2remake/4remake, EldenRing, DarkSouls 3 and Remaster are using, but i'm sure its 64bit and they all run fine.

Dax_Fame · Mar 31, 2023

RedColoredStars said:
Suggesting user-unfriendly Linux to people when the majority barely understand the basics of Windows is amusing at best. Linux sucks and will never catch up to Windows. Ever. Been hearing about it's big takeover for over 30 years now. Still waiting.

I hear this argument made all the time. Have you ever even tried any distro?

There are loads ranging from "idk shit" to "I am Linus incarnate"

Talk shit about Linux all you want, it's clearly not for everyone and not at all a solution to what's being discussed here but the claim it's ALL user unfriendly at this point is baseless nonsense.

If you can't figure out how to "use" Linux then you have bigger problems. There's nothing to figure out.

xScarYx · Mar 31, 2023

Dax_Fame said:
I hear this argument made all the time. Have you ever even tried any distro?

There are loads ranging from "idk shit" to "I am Linus incarnate"

Talk shit about Linux all you want, it's clearly not for everyone and not at all a solution to what's being discussed here but the claim it's ALL user unfriendly at this point is baseless nonsense.

If you can't figure out how to "use" Linux then you have bigger problems. There's nothing to figure out.

exactly, most pc users these days doesnt know anything about computers at all (i suppose its a generation smartphone thing), i want all the good stuff, but dont want to know anything about it, and then wondering why a pc bricks) and that a OS holds your hand that u dont need to know anything doesnt help if u run into a problem. like it happens on windows regularly and that a OS prevents you as a user to fix it doesnt helps. this is the reason i switched to arch linux with kde desktop, very user-friendly, close to steamos, i can do whatever i want with that OS and noone can prevent me from it (on windows i dont even can uninstall edge, without breaking some stuff).

With that said, if u arent able or willing enough to learn a bit about computer/os at all, then better stick to consoles.
a computer is a tool and like every other tool you have to practice and maybe learn a bit to use it the right way or it bricks.

Noctosphere · Mar 31, 2023

blaizX · Mar 31, 2023

64bitmodels said:
its time to let Windows 7 go. its 2023 people, theres a wealth of newer and more secure options out now.
unless you're using some netbook which cant run anything newer, in which case... what fucking games are you palying on steam?

The only reason to update seems to be fear of insufficient "security"

64bitmodels · Mar 31, 2023

sombrerosonic said:
D. Not everything is on steam, AKA EA Store/Battle.net/Epic Store/Adobe cloud/etc

yar har fiddle dee dee.

James_ · Mar 31, 2023

RedColoredStars said:
Suggesting user-unfriendly Linux to people when the majority barely understand the basics of Windows is amusing at best. Linux sucks and will never catch up to Windows. Ever. Been hearing about it's big takeover for over 30 years now. Still waiting.

You guys think I should install a Linux distro on my PC for the first time and make a blog about how easy it was to set up just to spite this person?

64bitmodels · Mar 31, 2023

James_ said:
You guys think I should install a Linux distro on my PC for the first time and make a blog about how easy it was to set up just to spite this person?

YES

ShadowOne333 · Mar 31, 2023

James_ said:
You guys think I should install a Linux distro on my PC for the first time and make a blog about how easy it was to set up just to spite this person?

You have my blessing.

Ryab · Mar 31, 2023

James_ said:
You guys think I should install a Linux distro on my PC for the first time and make a blog about how easy it was to set up just to spite this person?

Go for it. For most distributions initial install is easier than Windows even. After that there will be a small learning curve. Lots of distros have app equivelants of terminal commands by default now. Not sure if you want it, but if you want 1 small tip for using terminal if you do. Just type "man" before a command to view a manual.

Cris1997XX · Mar 31, 2023

RedColoredStars said:
Suggesting user-unfriendly Linux to people when the majority barely understand the basics of Windows is amusing at best. Linux sucks and will never catch up to Windows. Ever. Been hearing about it's big takeover for over 30 years now. Still waiting.

Ironic how you mention people who "barely understand the basics of Windows", meanwhile these greedy ass mfers decided to go to town with piracy just because support for their old OS is being dropped almost everywhere

xScarYx · Apr 1, 2023

sombrerosonic said:
Wine is known for providing horrid compatibility. alot of software used to run adobe products and office mainly software that are used widely in the industry are unsupported on linux or wine for a few reasons.

A. Not as used on desktops
B. The amount of time and effort used to build these versions is a great as Windows/Mac OS
C. Wine is pretty shitty for compatibility
D. Not everything is on steam, AKA EA Store/Battle.net/Epic Store/Adobe cloud/etc

Like you said, "plz stop spreading false information and inform yourself better about this topic, before posting nonsense."

as i already said, dont spread false informations, just because u have no clue about the topic and refuse to inform yourself propertly.

Wine/Proton is known for providing excelent compatiblity!
If the software uses industry standards, which many developer, primarly but not exlusive in the gaming industry not use (example here Ubisoft, who arent able to implement DX or Vulkan properly or The Last of Us Part 1) which results in poor performance if ur lucky or crashes on windows and problems with wine/proton.
If the developer chooses to follow those standards, most of the time everything works out of the box, like Returnal, Monster Hunter, Dark Souls etc.

Uhm, i dont know if u missed it or spreading false information on purpose. more and more software developer abandon adobe products and switching to opensource solutions, like blender for modeling, because the devs can write their own plugins(its just 1 example why) or cutting costs.

for office, since ms only offers office 365 these days, there are several options. like the webbased version, or using office 365 with Wine which runs flawlessly. but there are also several powerfull alternatives to ms products, which many companys already decided to choose to cut costs.

A. yeah, currently the installbase is not big, but time will tell if it grows.
B. u are wrong. most of the time, they doesnt need todo anything.
C. u are again, wrong and dont have a clue.
D. yeah, not everything is on steam. but there are 0 issues with Battle.Net, EA Store, Epic Store etc. they all run fine and the games are playable.

and again, dont spread false informations if u arent able to present the current facts.
we are in the year 2023, not in 2003 anymore. linux came a long way and is in good shape.

it doesnt matter if u doesnt like it.
its a fact that with SteamDeck/SteamOS gaining more and more popularity and stability in the user and developer space, the support end of W10 on the horizon, the current state and direction of W11, linux can gain a lot of installbase in the future if valve doesnt drop the ball and ms doesnt change their policy.

64bitmodels · Apr 1, 2023

xScarYx said:
A. yeah, currently the installbase is not big, but time will tell if it grows.

THIS is the UI design for Windows 12 that was leaked recently

It's gonna grow, without a doubt. Whether or not it's more than 1% is yet to be seen but hardcore Windows fans will definitely jump ship with this new update

FlitPix · Apr 1, 2023

AFAIK, if people are still on Windows 7/8, it's probably because either they can't afford a new machine or don't want to update.
Lack of money is understandable, but not wanting to update seems odd to me. WIn7 is totally unsupported now even if it is a great OS, and I can't personally understand why someone might still be on Win8 when Win10 is (at least imo) better in almost every way.

Either way, if you're still on Win7 or especially 8, I'd imagine there's probably a technical reason for it and you would likely be perfectly capable of installing Linux - and I'm not talking about complicated installations like Arch with archinstall, I'm talking about Mint or other distros with graphical live images and installation wizards. Not everyone has to compile their own kernels, I don't even know how to do that, nor do I have any incentive to do so.
There's a bit of a learning curve to actually use it as it's certainly different from Windows, but I'd argue that is worth it. Not flawless either, but I'd argue that if more people used it, there would be more incentive to more quickly fix flaws.

And if you're paranoid about privacy, you are probably aware of Linux and probably shouldn't be using Windows to begin with anyway, unless you have a good reason to still use it.

It's also a bit unrealistic for anyone to support Win7/8 when they're not supported anymore by Microsoft.

jeffyTheHomebrewer · Apr 1, 2023

FlitPix said:
AFAIK, if people are still on Windows 7/8, it's probably because either they can't afford a new machine or don't want to update.
Lack of money is understandable, but not wanting to update seems odd to me. WIn7 is totally unsupported now even if it is a great OS, and I can't personally understand why someone might still be on Win8 when Win10 is (at least imo) better in almost every way.

Either way, if you're still on Win7 or especially 8, I'd imagine there's probably a technical reason for it and you would likely be perfectly capable of installing Linux - and I'm not talking about complicated installations like Arch with archinstall, I'm talking about Mint or other distros with graphical live images and installation wizards. Not everyone has to compile their own kernels, I don't even know how to do that, nor do I have any incentive to do so.
There's a bit of a learning curve to actually use it as it's certainly different from Windows, but I'd argue that is worth it. Not flawless either, but I'd argue that if more people used it, there would be more incentive to more quickly fix flaws.

And if you're paranoid about privacy, you are probably aware of Linux and probably shouldn't be using Windows to begin with anyway, unless you have a good reason to still use it.

It's also a bit unrealistic for anyone to support Win7/8 when they're not supported anymore by Microsoft.

I'm pretty sure Photoshop CS6 and Vegas Pro 14 won't run under Wine, and I don't feel like trying to compile things like aseprite or paint.net myself. That and a fair bit of homebrew tools I use are Windows-only and again, may not work in Wine.
I'll upgrade from 7 when I'm dead. Or get a new machine.

Ryab · Apr 1, 2023

jeffyTheHomebrewer said:
I'm pretty sure Photoshop CS6 and Vegas Pro 14 won't run under Wine, and I don't feel like trying to compile things like aseprite or paint.net myself. That and a fair bit of homebrew tools I use are Windows-only and again, may not work in Wine.
I'll upgrade from 7 when I'm dead. Or get a new machine.

Reading this has made me realize I don't use any of the software most people do. I've always used things like GIMP and Kdenlive. Homebrew stuff though all works fine through wine. I think some people will have more issues then others just due to using specific apps that the developers try their hardest to make incompatible.

jeffyTheHomebrewer · Apr 1, 2023

Zyvyn said:
Reading this has made me realize I don't use any of the software most people do. I've always used things like GIMP and Kdenlive. Homebrew stuff though all works fine through wine. I think some people will have more issues then others just due to using specific apps that the developers try their hardest to make incompatible.

Yep. That and while I'm fine with dealing with Linux for a server (in my case, OpenMediaVault) I'd rather stick with Windows for daily-driver stuff.

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