US to give Ukraine long range missiles

x65943 · Feb 2, 2023

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-new-weapon-will-force-russian-shift-2023-02-02/

US announces new arms to Ukraine including long range GLDSB missiles that can reach deep into Russian supply lines

As the war enters its 12th month Russia struggles to prop up its war machine even as they have lost over half their initial gains

This news follows last week's announcement that Ukraine will receive both US and German made tanks in the coming months

Marc_LFD · Feb 2, 2023

Meanwhile, the southern border is wide open...

Thanks a lot, Biden Administration.

x65943 · Feb 2, 2023

Marc_LFD said:
Meanwhile, the southern border is wide open...

Thanks a lot, Biden Administration.

As someone who recently visited the border, I must have gone through 7-8 checkpoints and I didn't even cross over to Mexico - just visited some areas close to it

I was surprised by the amount of scrutiny - I didn't realize you had to cross through border checkpoints in the US proper if you are anywhere close to the border

That and Biden kept a lot of Trump era covid border restrictions in place - so I would really disagree Biden has been bad for the border

Anyhow this is off topic please keep it to Ukraine in this thread

Kurt91 · Feb 2, 2023

So, if I remember correctly, this whole thing started over Ukraine being offered to join NATO, or considering doing so. Russia didn't want a NATO country directly on it's border. At least, that was Russia's excuse, right?

Up until now, this has been a strictly defensive thing on Ukraine's end, with the supplies and equipment being sent to them being meant to force Russia out. Long-range missiles seem more like equipment for *attacking*, not defending. So, what would be the difference now between what's currently happening, and Russia's complaint about what would potentially happen if Ukraine joined NATO?

Also, sending Ukraine weapons meant solely for attacking Russia and not defending themselves sounds like something Russia could declare war on the United States over, since it's no longer helping Ukraine stand their ground and is now giving them weapons to hurt Russia directly. Wouldn't that be a bad thing, since I'm sure Russia has treaties with other countries to help them if they're attacked unprovoked? This sounds pretty much like what instigated the two World Wars, and I think those missiles are going to be the over-step that does it. (Up until now, we could say we weren't participating *technically*. Those missiles seem like enough to end that.)

Sir Tortoise · Feb 2, 2023

Kurt91 said:
So, if I remember correctly, this whole thing started over Ukraine being offered to join NATO, or considering doing so. Russia didn't want a NATO country directly on it's border. At least, that was Russia's excuse, right?

Up until now, this has been a strictly defensive thing on Ukraine's end, with the supplies and equipment being sent to them being meant to force Russia out. Long-range missiles seem more like equipment for *attacking*, not defending. So, what would be the difference now between what's currently happening, and Russia's complaint about what would potentially happen if Ukraine joined NATO?

Also, sending Ukraine weapons meant solely for attacking Russia and not defending themselves sounds like something Russia could declare war on the United States over, since it's no longer helping Ukraine stand their ground and is now giving them weapons to hurt Russia directly. Wouldn't that be a bad thing, since I'm sure Russia has treaties with other countries to help them if they're attacked unprovoked? This sounds pretty much like what instigated the two World Wars, and I think those missiles are going to be the over-step that does it. (Up until now, we could say we weren't participating *technically*. Those missiles seem like enough to end that.)

As mentioned in the article, they're for attacking supply lines behind the front lines, in Russian-occupied Ukraine. No, Ukraine isn't going to use these to launch an invasion of Russia.

Oh yeah, as for the Nato excuse, lol

Viri · Feb 2, 2023

Kurt91 said:
Russia didn't want a NATO country directly on it's border. At least, that was Russia's excuse, right?

Which is amusing, since they already have multiple NATO countries on their border.

x65943 · Feb 2, 2023

Kurt91 said:
So, if I remember correctly, this whole thing started over Ukraine being offered to join NATO, or considering doing so. Russia didn't want a NATO country directly on it's border. At least, that was Russia's excuse, right?

Up until now, this has been a strictly defensive thing on Ukraine's end, with the supplies and equipment being sent to them being meant to force Russia out. Long-range missiles seem more like equipment for *attacking*, not defending. So, what would be the difference now between what's currently happening, and Russia's complaint about what would potentially happen if Ukraine joined NATO?

Also, sending Ukraine weapons meant solely for attacking Russia and not defending themselves sounds like something Russia could declare war on the United States over, since it's no longer helping Ukraine stand their ground and is now giving them weapons to hurt Russia directly. Wouldn't that be a bad thing, since I'm sure Russia has treaties with other countries to help them if they're attacked unprovoked? This sounds pretty much like what instigated the two World Wars, and I think those missiles are going to be the over-step that does it. (Up until now, we could say we weren't participating *technically*. Those missiles seem like enough to end that.)

Ever hear of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania?

And as the graph shows the missiles reach about twice as far HIMARS - barely enough to reach into Russia - they can't even hit all Ukrainian territories (look at Ukraine's Crimea region)

And besides those points, lol if Russia will declare war on the US goodbye Russia

BigOnYa · Feb 2, 2023

What gets me is how Russia whines everytime when the USA and other countries send Ukraine weapons just to defend themselfs, yet Russia can launch missiles, from Russia, into residential buildings killing innocent civilians daily, and the world is supposed to just except that and do nothing. Oh we are allowed to bomb a neutral sovereign country, but they better not attack us back!

Viri · Feb 2, 2023

x65943 said:
Ever hear of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania?

And as the graph shows the missiles reach about twice as far HIMARS - barely enough to reach into Russia - they can't even hit all Ukrainian territories (look at Ukraine's Crimea region)

And besides those points, lol if Russia will declare war on the US goodbye Russia

Also Norway and Poland.

x65943 · Feb 2, 2023

Viri said:
Also Norway and Poland.

True however the border between Russia and Norway is about as significant as Russia / NK

And Poland only borders an exclave of Russia

The three Baltic states are directly bordering European Russia

Edit: after some more inspection Lithuania also only borders the exclave - I need to study geography more

BigOnYa · Feb 2, 2023

Isn't Russia already recieving Long Range Missiles and Drones from Iran and possibly NK. So why they bitching anyways. Maybe cause they're imports suck in comparison to Ukraines! :cry:

Slava Ukraini.

mrdude · Feb 3, 2023

Once again USA getting involved in another countries politics, sending Tax payers dollars and arms to a NON-Nato country. USA world police "Fuck Yeah". The Biden Admin is dragging you into WW3 by fighting another proxy war. They corrupt Ukaraine president has already done deals with Blackrock, JP morgan and a whole host of other countries to help rebuild Ukraine (as well as siphoned off billions of your tax dollars to private bank acocunts). Basically the USA wants to make a whole bunch of cash from Ukraine, while eventually having USA/Nato boots on the ground inside Ukraine- which was what Russia had been warning you about for decades. I doubt USA would be happy having Russian forces in Mexico or Canada, or for Russia to be Arming those countries if they were are war with either of them. Just more double standards coming from US politicians (again). You couldn't beat the Viet cong, you couldn't beat the Taliban, and you aren't going to beat a world power on it's own soil if you can't beat a bunch of poorly armed farmers. Don't be surprised if more icidents such as the Kerch Bridge and the Nordstream pipeline are met with the destruction of critical infracstucture in USA, because Russia will get tired of the interfering and you won't have anyone to cry to when this happens.

x65943 · Feb 3, 2023

mrdude said:
Once again USA getting involved in another countries politics, sending Tax payers dollars and arms to a NON-Nato country. USA world police "Fuck Yeah". The Biden Admin is dragging you into WW3 by fighting another proxy war. They corrupt Ukaraine president has already done deals with Blackrock, JP morgan and a whole host of other countries to help rebuild Ukraine (as well as siphoned off billions of your tax dollars to private bank acocunts). Basically the USA wants to make a whole bunch of cash from Ukraine, while eventually having USA/Nato boots on the ground inside Ukraine- which was what Russia had been warning you about for decades. I doubt USA would be happy having Russian forces in Mexico or Canada, or for Russia to be Arming those countries if they were are war with either of them. Just more double standards coming from US politicians (again). You couldn't beat the Viet cong, you couldn't beat the Taliban, and you aren't going to beat a world power on it's own soil if you can't beat a bunch of poorly armed farmers. Don't be surprised if more icidents such as the Kerch Bridge and the Nordstream pipeline are met with the destruction of critical infracstucture in USA, because Russia will get tired of the interfering and you won't have anyone to cry to when this happens.

Point 1: How much has the US spent combatting Russia ineffectively throughout the cold war? That's right a lot. This is in the US' most core strategic interest and we are getting it at a massive discount in the post cold war era.

Point 2: The US isn't just playing world police. The world is global and every action has a consequence. You can see how the world fared when we tried the appeasement strategy with Hitler. Letting your enemies run amok and beat down your allies will ALWAYS come back to bite you.

Point 3: "You aren't going to beat a world power on its own soil" - What dimension are you living in? First of all Russia isn't a world power which you can see by the fact they spent 12 months losing to a 3rd world nation with a GDP less than the state of Indiana...And second of all - Ukraine isn't Russian soil anymore than Kazakhstan or East Germany are Russian soil. Do you know the USSR broke up 30 years ago or..?

This is not our Vietnam moment, this is not our Iraq moment. This is Russia's Vietnam.

Do you know what happened in Vietnam? The US tried to attack a country that was backed by USSR/CCP and lost horribly because we were up against guys with motivation and infinite backing from another power. Ukraine is the same situation for Russia. --------- Russians don't give a shit about this war, and they are fighting against Ukrainians with resolve. If Russia somehow manages to take any piece of land for long they will deal with insurgency etc. They are doomed to lose like any imperialist takeover.

Tl;dr

Russia is having its vietnam moment and has nothing to show for 12 months of fighting but 100k+ dead russian youth, billions of lost armaments and becoming the laughing stock of the world stage

Xzi · Feb 3, 2023

Kurt91 said:
Up until now, this has been a strictly defensive thing on Ukraine's end, with the supplies and equipment being sent to them being meant to force Russia out. Long-range missiles seem more like equipment for *attacking*, not defending.

It's like they say: a good offense is sometimes the best defense. A lot more Russian citizens will lose their appetite for war if targets inside their borders start getting hit, and at the same time it will reduce their capacity to deploy more waves of invaders to Ukraine. Putin has made it very clear he won't leave willingly, so the only option left is to force him out via either political or military pressure, and long-range missiles can help with both.

x65943 · Feb 3, 2023

Xzi said:
It's like they say: a good offense is sometimes the best defense. A lot more Russian citizens will lose their appetite for war if targets inside their borders start getting hit, and at the same time it will reduce their capacity to deploy more waves of invaders to Ukraine. Putin has made it very clear he won't leave willingly, so the only option left is to force him out via either political or military pressure, and long-range missiles can help with both.

To be clear this system purposely has almost no capabilities to actually strike inside Russia currently and that's on purpose

Even longer range systems are available and being withheld on purpose so as to not escalate

Xzi · Feb 3, 2023

x65943 said:
To be clear this system purposely has almost no capabilities to actually strike inside Russia currently and that's on purpose

Even longer range systems are available and being withheld on purpose so as to not escalate

True, though Ukrainian forces have hit military installations on the other side of the border a few times already. There's really nothing left that either side could do to escalate the conflict further unless Russia chooses to deploy chemical or nuclear weapons, and that would be the last mistake Putin ever makes as it would give the US military justification to get involved directly.

J-Machine · Feb 3, 2023

putin needs to stop pulling an america and fight a war for oil. he claims it's to get back land that they held in ancient times but there is a reason they lost it in the first place.

Mythrandir · Feb 3, 2023

Here's a decent website keeping track of what they are able to regarding support to Ukraine:
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker

Due to the skew of popular search engine algorithms (DuckDuckGo included) toward government sanctioned narratives, it's a bit of a booger to find if you don't include "Kiel Institute" in your search inquiry. Reading through the About The Kiel Institute pages, most should consider it to be a reliable source. There is a lot of buzz terminology sympathizing with contemporary globalization agendas and initiatives.

As of November 20, 2022, the amount of aid that the USA has committed to Ukraine is estimated to be over €47 billion (over $51 billion USD). The Kiel Institute will update their estimates on February 15, 2023. There is an neat little interactive map where you can see the commitments of other nations.

x65943 · Feb 3, 2023

Mythrandir said:
Here's a decent website keeping track of what they are able to regarding support to Ukraine:
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker

Due to the skew of popular search engine algorithms (DuckDuckGo included) toward government sanctioned narratives, it's a bit of a booger to find if you don't include "Kiel Institute" in your search inquiry. Reading through the About The Kiel Institute pages, most should consider it to be a reliable source. There is a lot of buzz terminology sympathizing with contemporary globalization agendas and initiatives.

As of November 20, 2022, the amount of aid that the USA has committed to Ukraine is estimated to be over €47 billion (over $51 billion USD). The Kiel Institute will update their estimates on February 15, 2023. There is an neat little interactive map where you can see the commitments of other nations.

The total cost of the Iraq war over 8.5 years including all direct and indirect costs is estimated to be between 2-3 trillion dollars OR about $300 billion per year (even more with inflation)

The Ukraine war is 1/6 or less of that price per year and no boots on the ground and no US lives lost - AND the objectives of the war are actually clear and solid

The US is able to front a bill like that with the largest economy in the world, Russia won't be able to pay that bill forever

Now imagine how big the bill would be if we keep appeasing our adversaries and end up with a world war on our hands

The Catboy · Feb 4, 2023

Marc_LFD said:
Meanwhile, the southern border is wide open...

Thanks a lot, Biden Administration.

This is a made-up issue, Biden literally kept Trump's policies. So if it's open, then it would be Trump's doing. There are actually a lot of great reasons to hate on Biden, I don't see why someone needs to make shit up to be mad at him.

As for the topic, I wish this war would end soon. Countless people have died in that war started on issues that many weren't even born to have witnessed.

US to give Ukraine long range missiles

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