Hacking Hardware Picofly - a HWFLY switch modchip

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Thank you so much for clarifying how it works. I can barely understand the ideas shared in this thread and that's OK since I'm not computer savvy. Even so, I'm afraid the nearer we get to something, the more we should worry about attracting Ninjas.
I couldn't find this screenshot yesterday but here's what someone from ReSwitched said in 2020. Iirc there's a better screenshot with more info but I can't find that.
1675265252147.png



Edit: Although this is specifically about American law. I think everyone working on building an open source Pikofly is outside of the USA. Russians are probably legally safe, as are any Chinese users.

To be clear I have absolutely zero interest in contributing anything meaningful to the project. I'm not in the US but I don't want to piss of Nintendo. I'm here for the memes and to point out technical blunders because it gives me a small amount of internet clout.
 
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binkinator

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Thank you so much for clarifying how it works. I can barely understand the ideas shared in this thread and that's OK since I'm not computer savvy. Even so, I'm afraid the nearer we get to something, the more we should worry about attracting Ninjas.
They’re already watching. Rest assured.

You can tell by the smell…

Mtn Dew, desperation and Cheetos…
 
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binkinator

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Ρε τι λέτε ρε , θα μας κάψετε ντιπ !!
Τελικά το firmware θα το φερμάρουμε απο κανένα γαμώ τα άστρα ;
Not supported.

no, I mean literally….

FFF19659-B538-4CEB-89DB-A80590B46109.jpeg
 
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Tetris. Perhaps it is the third most sold game by Nintendo since Mario kart 8 is now their best seller.
Ironies like that happened other times...

I remember when Geohot was being sued by Sony, some people bring up the fact that Sony only exists because made a lot of money selling recorders and tapes to people willing to pirate music.

I also remember about a certain rom site that became famous for sharing lists of newly released dumps for new games and now give warns and bans for users that tell people where to find pirated video games.
 

ghjfdtg

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Nintendo can't stop the sale of the Pi Pico or other similar boards so don't worry about the hardware. The software is a bit more tricky but they have not taken down exploits or for example Luma3DS which does include sigpatches.
 

FruithatMods

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Did Sony ban the US airforce from using their PlayStation 3 consoles for Linux or did the US Air force just refuse to update their firmware in the end?

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/05/how-removing-ps3-linux-hurts-the-air-force/
Post automatically merged:

My point is simple. It is insane to dictate how you should use a device after you purchased it.

In the EU modchips are actually legal as long as you use them for a legitimate purpose. Using a modchip to install Ubuntu on your console is perfectly fine.
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if the mod chip is primarily used for legitimate, non-infringing purposes (e.g. home brew games), this suggests the use of the modchip may be used legitimately and proportionately.

https://www.gamerlaw.co.uk/2014/modchips-now-legal-in-the-eu-ish/
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The following is a summary of the court ruling by a different website.

"The more a TPM restricts the user, the more likely it will potentially be seen as a disproportionate restriction. If their locks go too far they may continue to be a technical barrier, but they will no longer given legal protection."
 
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linuxares

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In the EU modchips are actually legal as long as you use them for a legitimate purpose. Using a modchip to install Ubuntu on your console is perfectly fine.
Post automatically merged:

if the mod chip is primarily used for legitimate, non-infringing purposes (e.g. home brew games), this suggests the use of the modchip may be used legitimately and proportionately.

https://www.gamerlaw.co.uk/2014/modchips-now-legal-in-the-eu-ish/
Post automatically merged:

The following is a summary of the court ruling by a different website.

"The more a TPM restricts the user, the more likely it will potentially be seen as a disproportionate restriction. If their locks go too far they may continue to be a technical barrier, but they will no longer given legal protection."
Sadly, they updated the "Copyright and Information Society Directive" to ban for example modchips.

Article 6 of the Copyright Directive requires that Member States must provide "adequate legal protection" against the intentional circumvention of "effective technological measures" designed to prevent or restrict acts of copying not authorised by the rightholders of any copyright, related right or the sui generis right in databases (preamble paragraph 47). Member States must also provide "adequate legal protection" against the manufacture, import, distribution, sale, rental, advertisement, or possession "for commercial purposes of devices, products or components or the provision of services which":

  • are promoted, advertised or marketed for the purpose of circumvention of, or
  • have only a limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent, or
  • are primarily designed, pro
This is basically what Nintendo said to stores selling modchips in EU. Take them down, or we take you down.
 

FruithatMods

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The PC Box court ruling sets a precedent and established the rules whether Article 6 is even relevant to a modchip. In the case of pc box the court found that this law doesn't apply to pc box's modchip.

There are two tests or questions which need to be asked to determine if this law applies.

Does the manufacturer restrict the device disproportionately? The manufacturer can choose to apply security measures just to the copyrighted works (I.e. The games themselves). If the security restriction is applied to the whole OS it is too restrictive.

If Nintendo wants to make use of this law they should either provide security just for the games or they should allow their users to install their own operating systems like Ubuntu.

If the OS TPM security is too restrictive the second question is asked.
The second question asks whether the modchip enables legitimate uses on the console.

This law is not applicable if a modchip enables you to do legitimate things on the console that you wouldn't be able to do without one. If the modchip is only used to pirate games this law applies and it is thus illegal.
 
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linuxares

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If you think so. But I'm sadly on the camp that theirs lawyers know more than us. Else their would still be modchip solutions fortfarande theirs products on for example 01media.

If you guys wanna do a bounty I sure won't stop you. But be prepared for the letter from a Nintendo lawyer.
 
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Adran_Marit

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IANAL
(12 year old me always wants to add a heart_emoji between the first I and A.)


not illegal to do stuff to hardware you own. Sharing the things you find will get you in trouble if they are someone else’s IP. Likely outcome would be a takedown notice. You can see how well that works by searching for prod.keys On the Internet. Tough to find, huh?

There are tons of documents that talk about the details of the hardware and how it works. Documenting ways to get around protection measures gets you closer to the grey areas but there are DefCON presentations for example that go into great detail. Based on events surrounding things like RCMLoader and Dragon Injector I would say if you built tools to make use of the exploits you document you’re likely to attract the Ninjas.

…while avoiding DMCA.

Ungh. I don’t think it will be possible to avoid a C&D. It’s very likely this threat is why the original Dev noped tf out. Spreading the word and getting it out in the wild is certainly possible, but setting up a storefront with a traceable address in a country that respects Intellectual copyright? Naw dawg.

Better to follow my 3 step plan:
1 be Chinese citizen
2 ???
3 profit (by selling on AliExpress)

Again, we have the successful shuttering of DragonInjector as a prior demonstration of what Ninty will do.

https://static.wiidatabase.de/DragonInjector-Abmahnung.pdf

It was the circumvention of TPM that brought the Ninjas. This caused collateral damage to other project such as DragonMMC.

My unqualified opinion?
It will be hard to shut down casual sharing of howto information (see exploits available for…heck, EVERYTHING!). As long as you don’t set up shop and start selling from a storefront with a business address and a money trail you should be fine.

tried my best to reference other real world actions (except for the last paragraph) but again…IANAL

Let’s wait for @Ericzander to bring the facts.

RIP DragonInjector but onto later and greater things
 
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FruithatMods

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If you think so. But I'm sadly on the camp that theirs lawyers know more than us. Else their would still be modchip solutions fortfarande theirs products on for example 01media.

If you guys wanna do a bounty I sure won't stop you. But be prepared for the letter from a Nintendo lawyer.
Honestly, I would feel really bad for the Nintendo lawyer if he were to ever send me a letter.
 

impeeza

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Ooh so I got it the other way around, thanks!


So you're saying the BCT in the HWFLY-NX open source code got encrypted with the leaked key? Lmao


Honestly I think the picofly prototypes used the exact same BCT and payload, I can't think of a reason why they'd write their own. Though it would be interesting to see, yes.
I was thinking about that earlier: https://gbatemp.net/threads/pikofly-a-probably-fake-hwfly-modchips-or-not.622701/post-10060723

I think the use some custom code on the Pico bootloader which decrypt the firmware stored on the NOR flash and then run it.
 
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FruithatMods

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One of the best lawyers representing Nintendo on the pc box case is an old Eton college boy. He attended and graduated from Oxford University. Not only does he hold several law degrees but he also has a degree in bio-sciences. These are the world's most highly rated universities and schools which only admit the best of the best. I think it is safe to say that he is smarter than all of us here.

Nintendo only hires the best lawyers like him. Even though he was the best he lost the court case against some no name lolcat. Needless to say his career was never the same again and his subsequent jobs weren't very exciting to say the least.

These court case shananigans with Nintendo actually sound like a lot of fun,like a pokemon battle!!!

Pikachu I choose you!
 

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