why don't you look back and see how "unhackable" the vita was. and just about every other device. this is always a phase of hacking a device and it continues to repeat itself
Ok, but I really don't believe that actual scene hackers used that word, or only with further specifications limiting the scope, especially after the system was broken open and fully analyzed.
But especially early on they might have said that the chance of an exploit might be low and maybe never happen, but that's just the truth when you talk about a blackbox that needs to be attacked, you never know if there really is a usable attack vector, and even less if there is a reliable one, that a normal user could use.
But its still quite a bit different when a system is open as wide as the switch, and multiple knowledge people in the field say that there might never be another software only exploit usable for cfw, while the actuall attack surface is much lower then it was in the past.
I mean its in theory possible, that there might be some weird exotic bend over backwards way to exploit it, but even if there is a weird way, does it mean that anyone finds it, or even that it would be really usable for normal people? No.
So its not really wise to expect something to be there without any evidence of that, especially after nearly all commonly used exploits aren't even Nintendos fault, and instead caused by Nvidias mistakes.
Ok, but I really don't believe that actual scene hackers used that word, or only with further specifications limiting the scope, especially after the system was broken open and fully analyzed.
But especially early on they might have said that the chance of an exploit might be low and maybe never happen, but that's just the truth when you talk about a blackbox that needs to be attacked, you never know if there really is a usable attack vector, and even less if there is a reliable one, that a normal user could use.
But its still quite a bit different when a system is open as wide as the switch, and multiple knowledge people in the field say that there might never be another software only exploit usable for cfw, while the actuall attack surface is much lower then it was in the past.
I mean its in theory possible, that there might be some weird exotic bend over backwards way to exploit it, but even if there is a weird way, does it mean that anyone finds it, or even that it would be really usable for normal people? No.
So its not really wise to expect something to be there without any evidence of that, especially after nearly all commonly used exploits aren't even Nintendos fault, and instead caused by Nvidias mistakes.
I'll make it simple for you switch at this point is more exploitable than vita was the only thing that could be "hacked" for the longest time was the pspemu. it took 6 years for vita to get any sort of real hack
The openness of the code means mod chip will continue to be easily made. To harden against mod chip is expensive. Nvidia for one will never take the hit so all can rest assured that hardware attack will be available. Availability of hardware mod means software will remain open so there is a nice virtuous cycle. To rewrite software from scratch is risky so people who enjoy mod should be happy?
The openness of the code means mod chip will continue to be easily made. To harden against mod chip is expensive. Nvidia for one will never take the hit so all can rest assured that hardware attack will be available. Availability of hardware mod means software will remain open so there is a nice virtuous cycle.
Yes, they did underestimate the lengths people will go. Someone should have shown them the xbox 360 kamikaze mod. Granted I play a lot in handheld mode so I'll take the OLED screen and other small upgrades that came with the Mariko SOC.
I haven't commented on this thread yet, so I'll throw my opinion into the ring.
It is NOT and will never be worth waiting for a new hack for Patched Model Switches.
Simply put, there is literally no reason to. Here is why.
In June of 2018, the Nintendo Switch had sold, somewhere in the range of 19.69 MILLION units since it's release in March of 2017. Every single one of those units is UNPATCHED and vulnerable to the Fuse Gelee exploit through RCM, and thus can be hacked without a modchip being soldered in. Two months later, in August of 2018, that around about when Nintendo started putting out the iPatched Erista units that removed the vulnerability.
By September of 2018, Sales of the console, including both the remaining stock of Unpatched units, as well as the iPatched units, had reached 22.86 Million.
Now, considering the fact that there were absolutely still unsold unpatched units sitting on retail shelves when Nintendo released the iPatched unit, lets be generous and round up a bit on the number of Unpatched consoles and say that by September of 2018, when when the only version of the Switch being produced anymore were iPatched units, somewhere in the range of 20 to 21 MILLION Unpatched Nintendo Switch consoles had been sold and are theoretically out in circulation right now.
Now of course, you have to take into account the idea that not everyone that ended up with these consoles took the greatest care of them, or there were accidents, acts of God, what have you, to the point that not every single console sold is still available for use right now. Units have been destroyed, lost, scrapped for parts, etc. But, the sheer volume of units sold likely beats out the amount of units destroyed to the point where there are still, more than likely, more unpatched Nintendo Switch consoles out in the wild right now, than there are people interested in getting them specifically for easy modding by many magnitudes. Most people that buy their consoles buy it for completely vanilla usage and never consider the idea of modding.
Simply put, Unpatched Nintendo Switches are NOT particularly hard to come by. They can be a bit pricey, sure. Many people who know about the Unpatched Switch's vulnerability are more than happy to sell them for inflated prices. This makes it SEEM like getting one is harder than it really is, as many people will spend hours to days refreshing the search, watching for new listings, bidding on auctions, and trying their hardest to get the best deal possible and constantly coming up short. But the point still stands that if you got the money to put down, getting one is a cakewalk. This isn't a matter of the PS5 where people are using bots to buy them all up and force people to pay scalper fees. Two seconds on eBay will show you a plethora of unpatched consoles to choose from in various conditions, completeness levels, and price points.
Then, we have the Patched Units. Every single Patched Nintendo Switch is capable of being modded with a modchip. Yes, modchips are expensive, tricky to order, hard to install, and overall inconvenient. BUT, even so, the option is there. If you absolutely REFUSE to buy an unpatched unit from somebody on eBay, you STILL have an avenue to get your iPatched Erista, Mariko, Lite, or OLED Switch running Atmosphere, homebrew apps, and "Backups" right now, without having to wait until the unforeseen future when someone inevitably, discovers a method of modding the does not require the chip (and possibly requires you to be on an ancient firmware you long since probably upgraded from)
At the end of the day, if you want a modded Nintendo Switch, there is basically no reason for you to not have one right now. If you cant afford it, save up. Cancel your Netflix for a little while, eat out less, find a side hustle (I donate my Plasma), whatever you gotta do, but get your money together, and get yourself a modded/moddable switch. If you CHOOSE not to do that, you have no right, in my opinion, to come on here or any other place and whine and bitch about how there isn't the perfect solution for you. Solutions are staring you right in the face, and you're ignoring them because you want to be a spoiled brat.
Yes, they did underestimate the lengths people will go. Someone should have shown them the xbox 360 kamikaze mod. Granted I play a lot in handheld mode so I'll take the OLED screen and other small upgrades that came with the Mariko SOC.
I REALLY hate the whole "source" bullshit its never used as anything other than a way to discredit the other person even when a source is given it just turns into a "oh i don't trust that" or "its biased blah blah blah" so on and so forth it NEVER ends well because the annoying fuck asking for "source" will never admit being wrong and people need to stop making such childish attempts at trolling there is a name for these type of people "Sealions". argumentum ad verecundiam is just the most annoying shit on the internet.
Lmao dude, come on. If you give an explanation and the guy still doesn't want to believe, leave it at that.
And also argumentum ad verecundiam is an argument of authority, that's not what we're talking about.
I'm not saying people asking for sources cannot be annoying, but in itself it's to be expected when you have to explain something.
Obviously, when someone says that there's 99.99% chances that something will never get cracked, especially when it's as popular as the Nintendo Switch, it raises some questions, well at least one which is : why ? That's why he asked for the reasonning behind this.
All the software exploits on switch were found and released, nintendo patched them. SciresM diffs every single OS release and is looking for exploits. There aren't any so far, he has looked. There are very few attack surfaces.
If you wanted an exploit that doesn't require you to open your switch, you should have bought a switch 4 years ago.
That's what I did, between atmosphere being announced and the threat of patched switches coming onto the market I panic bought one (asked for the one at the front of the display cabinet and it was on 1.0.0 which wasn't great at the time because you needed puyo puyo tetris to even use atmosphere) but yeah there's so many unpatched ones out there the only thing stopping people from getting one is laziness
All the software exploits on switch were found and released, nintendo patched them. SciresM diffs every single OS release and is looking for exploits. There aren't any so far, he has looked.
If you wanted an exploit that doesn't require you to open your switch, you should have bought a switch 4 years ago.
I know all that. What I'm saying is that it's not surprising for somebody to be surprised and maybe doubtful when somebody says that the latest ultra popular Nintendo console is unhackable, like ever, when it has already been told before about other consoles that didn't sold as much (and thus, maybe had less people who could work on that)
What popularity has to do with it ? Well if the Switch didn't sold like it did then who would care.
I'm not saying they are right to believe it's not unhackable, I'm saying it's not surprising to be at least doubtful, but there are a lot of parameters to take into account and you can't count on people believing right away what somebody is saying on a forum and stop having doubts, some would, but not everyone. Now, if somebody is just doubting everything that goes against what he wants to be true then he's just stupid and it's better to just ignore, but we weren't quite there yet.
Now, if somebody is just doubting everything that goes against what he wants to be true then he's just stupid and it's better to just ignore, but we weren't quite there yet.
You're doing it on purpose ?
OP left at the beginning of the 2nd page and it's after that good answers have been made because guess what, answering « well if you don't trust me then do it yourself » isn't a good answer.
It literally has nothing to do with the Dunning Kruger effect. We're not talking about thinking that you know something, we're talking about doubting stuff that people says on the Internet. That's literally it, there's really nothing much.
I could argue even more but honestly that's not even worth it. I expected that some people wouldn't wrap their head around the fact that some wouldn't give 100% of their trust towards complete strangers.
Lmao dude, come on. If you give an explanation and the guy still doesn't want to believe, leave it at that.
And also argumentum ad verecundiam is an argument of authority, that's not what we're talking about.
I'm not saying people asking for sources cannot be annoying, but in itself it's to be expected when you have to explain something.
clearly you have no idea what argumentum ad verecundiam even is because most people even in this thread are doing it by only trusting what devs say and disregarding anything else. the "source" fuckers use the same fallacy as if somebodys status always makes them correct about a subject (spoiler everybody is human so it DOESN'T)
I know all that. What I'm saying is that it's not surprising for somebody to be surprised and maybe doubtful when somebody says that the latest ultra popular Nintendo console is unhackable, like ever, when it has already been told before about other consoles that didn't sold as much (and thus, maybe had less people who could work on that)
What popularity has to do with it ? Well if the Switch didn't sold like it did then who would care.
I'm not saying they are right to believe it's not unhackable, I'm saying it's not surprising to be at least doubtful, but there are a lot of parameters to take into account and you can't count on people believing right away what somebody is saying on a forum and stop having doubts, some would, but not everyone. Now, if somebody is just doubting everything that goes against what he wants to be true then he's just stupid and it's better to just ignore, but we weren't quite there yet.
The Switch is hacked and continued to be so with the latest, just not the hack that the OP wanted.
When Switch 2 comes I would bet many would go buy one and start the wait. I would bet a good portion of the people with the ability will be trying to hack it.
I am no Nintendo historian but is there any Nintendo console that wasn't hacked?
clearly you have no idea what argumentum ad verecundiam even is because most people even in this thread are doing it by only trusting what devs say and disregarding anything else the "source" fuckers use the same fallacy.
Don't worry about it, I totally know what it is, I won't say better than you to be polite but at least as much so don't patronize me. I actually talked about it my first or second post here that it wasn't totally wrong to use this in such cases despite trying to avoid them as much as possible.
The OP wasn't even asking for a source in the first place, he was asking for the reasonning behind the conclusion that was « it will probably never be hacked », and people got mad right at that. How the fuck can you be mad because somebody asked you to explain how you reached your conclusion ??? It's not even an argument of authority at that point, but if you don't even want to explain your way of thinking without appearing that butthurt, then just quote SciresM saying it's not happening and that's it.
Honestly I've made such a long post but I've decided to delete everything. I don't need to explain further than this article. Argument from authority isn't necessarily wrong, if you're mad that people would believe SciresM and not you despite both of you saying the same thing, then you've got to get tougher skin because that's how it works. He has a background, you don't, at least not that we know of.
And no, asking for a source isn't a fallacy, and people asking for a source do not disregard what you're saying, that's actually the opposite lmao they want to know how you know that, how you reached your conclusion.
The Switch is hacked and continued to be so with the latest, just not the hack that the OP wanted.
When Switch 2 comes I would bet many would go buy one and start the wait. I would bet a good portion of the people with the ability will be trying to hack it.
I am no Nintendo historian but is there any Nintendo console that wasn't hacked?
I didn't said that popularity = guaranteed hack. But yeah I do agree with you actually, it wasn't what OP asked but it's already been hacked therefore people have less incentive to find another way to hack it, so it's not really worth trying to waiting for a new SW hack.
Honestly I've made such a long post but I've decided to delete everything. I don't need to explain further than this article. Argument from authority isn't necessarily wrong, if you're mad that people would believe SciresM and not you despite both of you saying the same thing, then you've got to get tougher skin because that's how it works. He has a background, you don't, at least not that we know of.
clearly you have no idea what argumentum ad verecundiam even is because most people even in this thread are doing it by only trusting what devs say and disregarding anything else. the "source" fuckers use the same fallacy as if somebodys status always makes them correct about a subject (spoiler everybody is human so it DOESN'T)
There are trust worthy people, they earn people's trust and people believe them, there isn't much that humans are able to learn on their own, most of our believe comes from people or sources that we trust, trust worthy people are not gods, they are of course not always right.
Being right is very different from being trust worthy. A broken clock is absolutely right twice a day, which none of the trust worthy ones can claim.
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