Covid-19 vaccine

[UltraSUPRA]

@UltraSUPRA You should quote my whole post next time.

In short, I never made the argument that deaths were lower in 2020 compared to other years.

I know. The thing is, I said that total deaths in 2020 were lower. Because they were.

 

[Lacius]

I know. The thing is, I said that total deaths in 2020 were lower. Because they were.

You don't have to look far to see my previous post on the subject.

1. You don't know that 2020 deaths were lower.
2. It wouldn't matter if they were.

What's your point?

 

[UltraSUPRA]

You don't have to look far to see my previous post on the subject.

1. You don't know that 2020 deaths were lower.
2. It wouldn't matter if they were.

What's your point?

1. It's 2021. We know.
2. So deaths only matter if they're COVID?

 

[Lacius]

1. It's 2021. We know.

Source?

2. So deaths only matter if they're COVID?

Whether or not the total deaths in a year have decreased is irrelevant to whether or not a major cause of death is important and/or real. For example, if we nuked a city of 367,000 innocent Americans, saying "Well, total deaths this year are down" is irrelevant to the conversation about the city that was nuked, whether or not the city was nuked, whether or not it was bad the city was nuked, what could have been done to prevent that city from being nuked, and what we can do to prevent other cities from being nuked.

 

[Cryoraptor]

"Mandatory masks to stop the spread has the same energy as outlawing junk food to cure obesity. Doctors would also advocate for both" Sums up the person we are talking to here.

 

[notimp]

I do genuinely do see your points, however I also see others points as well. In a perfect world we wouldn't need vaccine because it would be virus free or we have a cure-all medicine that protects us from these outbreaks. However we don't live in a perfect world.

Funnily enough, RNA vaccination might be a way to that 'perfect world'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine

Can be adopted to any illness (theoretically), and that very fast.

Nanites probably gets you there faster or closer.

mRNA vaccine against MS in development:
https://www.merkur.de/leben/gesundh...-tierversuch-studie-menschen-zr-90165056.html (german)

mRNA vaccines against Zika, HIV and Nipah in development.
https://www.modernatx.com/pipeline



via blog.fefe.de

 

[Cryoraptor]

mRNA vaccine against MS in development:
https://www.merkur.de/leben/gesundh...-tierversuch-studie-menschen-zr-90165056.html (german)

mRNA vaccines against Zika, HIV and Nipah in development.
https://www.modernatx.com/pipeline

I'm all for new vaccines but a HIV vaccine seems kinda redundant, at least in the West considering its transmission is rapidly declining due to improving treatments and prevention. But I guess it would still be useful in the developing world where it's still spreading.

Also, how do you vaccinate against MS? That's caused by your own immune system attacking myelin sheaths on neurons is it not?

 

[notimp]

I'm all for new vaccines but a HIV vaccine seems kinda redundant, at least in the West considering its transmission is rapidly declining due to improving treatments and prevention. But I guess it would still be useful in the developing world where it's still spreading.

Also, how do you vaccinate against MS? That's caused by your own immune system attacking myelin sheaths on neurons is it not?

The body is triggered (programmed ) into producing (parts of the) antigenes, that trigger the illness, which in return hightens the bodies immune tolerance over time.

Study: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6525/145.full

See also: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html
https://qz.com/1944566/what-is-an-mrna-vaccine-and-how-does-it-work/
(In case this is not clear to lurkers: This is just about mRNA vaccines, for COVID 19 there also exist conventional ones or ones where the virus genome is 'spliced' to develep an immune response against a certain protein as well.)

 

[Cryoraptor]

The body is triggered (programmed ) into producing (parts of the) the antigenes, that trigger the illness, which in return hightens the bodies immune tolerance over time.

Wouldn't it make more sense to trigger an immune response to the auto-antibodies responsible for MS, so that if the body starts producing them, the immune system directly mounts a counter-response to the auto-antibodies and kills the immune cells producing them? I'm not a biologist and I can't seem to access the study in question so I might just not be understanding how it works but I fail to see how directly triggering the illness protects from it. Does triggering the illness early mean you can essentially mount an immune response against your own malfunctioning immune cells?

 

[notimp]

Wouldn't it make more sense to trigger an immune response to the auto-antibodies responsible for MS, so that if the body starts producing them, the immune system directly mounts a counter-response to the auto-antibodies and kills the immune cells producing them? I'm not a biologist and I can't seem to access the study in question so I might just not be understanding how it works but I fail to see how directly triggering the illness protects from it. Does triggering the illness early mean you can essentially mount an immune response against your own malfunctioning immune cells?

I'm not a microbiologist.

 

[NeSchn]

Hey y'all, back again for an update on my vaccine.

So, last Friday my Mom tested positive for COVID-19. I took her to take the test. We were unmasked in the car as we were certain it was just a cold as she hasn't gone anywhere and we've only been seeing immediate family. So naturally, my father and I had to get tested. Again, in the car with him unmasked because at this point if my Mom has it we both definitely have it as we weren't isolated from each other, our house isn't big enough for that to happen (I live with them still).

He got his results back yesterday, he's positive. I got mine back today, I'm negative and have felt no symptoms this past week at all, so I don't think its a false negative. Maybe its proof that even after the first shot of the vaccine there's some immunity? I haven't been keeping my distance from them or anything and have been around both of them unmasked, so, its a possibility. I get my second dose on the 27th.

By the way, both of my parents are doing fine luckily. Mild symptoms, the normal cold like symptoms accompanied with the loss of taste and smell, etc. We definitely got lucky, an old coworker of mines Dad just passed a way this week from it along with a few other older people in my neighborhood.

 

[Alexander1970]

My Parents-in-Law now "restricted" Contact to my Wife and me...No further Contact until EVERYONE is vaccinationed...
THAT is the good Way ? Really ? Oh dear....

*searches for his Aryan certificate....*

 

[Deleted User]

My family are both Senior Doctors and Professors, so my professional circle overlaps at least on both the Fields of Medicine and Higher Education.

From the former Field, I have personally known at least 15 people who passed away from COVID-19 in 2020; they were diagnosed with COVID-19, taken to hospital for treatment and passed away notwithstanding.

From the latter Field, I have personally known at least 75 people who passed away from COVID-19 in 2020; exactly the same procedure and outcome, so there is no misunderstanding of causality in the aforementioned cases.

In total, that is over 90 people, in what seems to be the highest-risk Occupational Fields in my circle - Medicine and Higher Education.

This Comment is for those that don't believe COVID-19 can kill.
I just hope it doesn't take someone close to you to realise that it can.

 

[Cryoraptor]

My family are both Senior Doctors and Professors, so my professional circle overlaps at least on both the Fields of Medicine and Higher Education.

From the former Field, I have personally known at least 15 people who passed away from COVID-19 in 2020; they were diagnosed with COVID-19, taken to hospital for treatment and passed away notwithstanding.

From the latter Field, I have personally known at least 75 people who passed away from COVID-19 in 2020; exactly the same procedure and outcome, so there is no misunderstanding of causality in the aforementioned cases.

In total, that is almost 90 people; this Comment is for those that don't believe COVID-19 can kill.
I just hope it doesn't take someone close to you to realise that it can.

"BuT iTs ThE 5g AnD tHe VaCcInEs ThE gOvErNmEnT aRe GiViNg Us!!!!!"

 

[Deleted User]

"BuT iTs ThE 5g AnD tHe VaCcInEs ThE gOvErNmEnT aRe GiViNg Us!!!!!"

We very well can't control what others decide, but at least we've done all we can to make those decisions informed.

As such, in all of my circle's deaths, it was related to the amount of people they came in contact with on a daily basis as it pertains to a greater risk; Doctors and University Professors do their best to help the community, which is commendable but can be fatal.

Some patients are just idiots to be sick with COVID-19 in the first place in their disregard for public safety, as are some University students.

If my Comment helps even one future Hospital and University | School Staff avoid unnecessary death, then it's worth the effort to type here.

 

[NeSchn]

"BuT iTs ThE 5g AnD tHe VaCcInEs ThE gOvErNmEnT aRe GiViNg Us!!!!!"

I FEEL THE 5G INSIDE OF ME.

 

[SG854]

No, not taking it. I swim in shit. I dive in sewage water. All the shit helps make my immune system stronger. So I don't need a vaccine.

 

[Deleted User]

No, not taking it. I swim in shit. I dive in sewage water. All the shit helps make my immune system stronger. So I don't need a vaccine.

You will get stronger if you survive a Covid infection. That is if you survive.
You also have a high chance of infecting others with the virus.

 

[Alexander1970]

You also have a high chance of infecting others with the virus.

Also when you Vaccinated.
Your Symptoms are getting mitigated.

A Fact,that many,many,many People "forget" to mention.....

 

[Cryoraptor]

All the shit helps make my immune system stronger

This isn't how your immune system works. Your immune system builds resistance to every pathogen that invades your body, if you survive the infection. This immunity is pathogen-specific; memory cells that have learned to effectively kill pathogenic E. coli, a bacterium you probably frequently encouter if you 'dive in sewage water', will do absolutely fuck all against SARS-CoV-2. Memory cells that are specific to normal human coronaviruses may offer some sort of limited resistance, but no immunity, and memory cells that aren't specific to any coronaviruses will not help whatsoever, and you might as well not have any memory cells at all. The only memory cells that can effectively make you highly resistant or immune to COVID-19 are those that have become specific to SARS-CoV-2. The memory cells you've developed to pathogens in sewage are specific to several species of bacteria, which offers no help to any viral infection.

In children, I agree that they have to get dirty sometimes and there is such a thing as being too clean, as in those early years the immune system needs stimulation and exercise to mature and promote a healthy relationship between the immune system, the bacteria inside of you and the bacteria in the environment. But in adults with a mature immune system, higher-than-average exposure to pathogens has little effect. Of course, adults do need to come into contact with normal circulating pathogens to maintain resistance to them, but the benefit exposure brings peaks around this normal level. At higher levels than this you are just putting your immune system under extra stress, which will decrease its ability to fight in the long run.

The best ways for an adult to maintain a healthy immune system, both innate and adaptive, is through exercise, adequate nutrition and avoiding as much psychological stress as possible. With COVID, your best defence is your innate immune system, which covers physical barriers such as mucous and epithelial cells that line your respiratory system, and also the innate cellular response such as inflammation and immune cells like macrophages that attack anything that appears to be foreign, dying or neoplastic, so exercising and generally keeping healthy is important during this pandemic.

But back to the point, refusing a free or very cheap vaccine because 'I haz a stwong immune sistem' is a ridiculous and infantile argument. You have a strong immune system? Great. The vaccine will be more effective for you because your adaptive response will be stronger and the memory cells you build from the vaccine will last longer. That also means you can't pass the disease onto those with weaker immune systems than you for longer as well. The point of giving young people the vaccine isn't to stop young people from dying, because obviously they don't die from COVID, but to halt the spread of the disease so vulnerable people who might actually become seriously ill from it don't come into contact with it from younger people who have no symptoms and have no idea they are passing the virus on.

In the same way swimming in sewage water doesn't protect you from measles, swimming in dirty water doesn't protect you from COVID-19 either.