The Game Awards 2020 - live coverage - Sephiroth joins Smash, new Perfect Dark

Deleted User · Dec 11, 2020

Everyone is entitled to love or hate or meh anything, unless it breaks laws, so it's moot to argue about one's preferences or lack thereof to another.

Whether people bought a certain game or not is not the issue, because reasons.

What should be the issue is the denial when a title is pandering to a Political view that is topical to earn edgy points and more free, online advertising in a Western climate where these issues are hotly debated.
That shouldn't be what gaming is about, but if it is then at least be forthcoming about it.

It's not like Homosexuality hasn't been a selling point in Asian Media for several decades, even Transgender culture is alive and well in many Non-Western countries around the World, living its best life; the difference is they're not packaged to create tension with the majority of the World which are Heterosexual, but rather coexist as one society.

Some people argue that Homosexuality is the same as Heterosexuality; by all means, prove it for yourself. If you're Heterosexual, change your porn preference to Homosexual and change your partner to be Homosexual, because it shouldn't matter if they're the same; this is the circular asininity that people don't seem to comprehend. If Homosexuality is the same as Heterosexuality then there's no need to be Homosexual.

So, by definition, Homosexuality is different to Heterosexuality and just because people can live in harmony and tolerate each other it doesn't mean they need to be in an environment saturated with its depiction, especially when said sexuality is a minority; a good analogy would be even if you can tolerate my opinion, it doesn't mean I should Post a Comment on every Thread here, every single day.

That's just common sense and common decency.

Nobody needs to justify their tastes, but nobody should try to defend a cheap Marketing ploy or be played by it.
That's sad for everyone and the Gaming future.

D34DL1N3R · Dec 11, 2020

Payne said:
That's absolute bullshit. Name at least 3 games that in fact are political, and also why. Im waiting.

You seriously can't think of three games on your own, that in fact are as every bit as "political" as TLOU2? I don't think you're even trying because I can think of FAR more than a measly three off the top of my head and they're all popular titles. You're either 1) just choosing to ignore the politics in games that you either agree with or 2) don't understand/realize the political themes in them. ut2k4master is correct. TONS of games have plenty of political themes/subject matter in them.

Payne · Dec 11, 2020

D34DL1N3R said:
TONS of games have plenty of political themes/subject matter in them.

Such as?

ut2k4master · Dec 11, 2020

Payne said:
Such as?

ghost of tsushima, doom eternal, final fantasy 7 remake

D34DL1N3R · Dec 11, 2020

Payne said:
Such as?

Are you 5? I'm not holding your hand. You're just being purposefully ignorant and difficult. A thing called Google exists and if you're still unable to find the answer you're looking for... I question how many games you've actually played outside of Pong. Some of the most popular game franchises in history are purely political in nature. I'm just going to second the "echo chamber" comment.

Payne · Dec 11, 2020

ut2k4master said:
ghost of tsushima, doom eternal, final fantasy 7 remake

What's political in any of them? Just curious

Edit : Obviously, Im not asking for full blown review, just give me topic or subject within game that is associated with politics

ut2k4master · Dec 11, 2020

Payne said:
What's political in any of them? Just curious

every game thats about "good" vs "evil" is inherently political

Payne · Dec 11, 2020

ut2k4master said:
every game thats about "good" vs "evil" is inherently political

I'm guessing that we have different views on what "political" topics are, as I find "good" vs "evil" thing to be purely philosophical.
Anyways thanks for replay, I appreciate you taking the time.

D34DL1N3R · Dec 11, 2020

Payne said:
I'm guessing that we have different views on what "political" topics are, as I find "good" vs "evil" thing to be purely philosophical.
Anyways thanks for replay.

You need your hand held now to explain exactly what is political in games that have political themes? Omfg. Are you also going to ask what about the Metal Gear or Call of Duty franchises are political? Now we're back to "politics" only pertaining to what YOU feel is worthy or not worthy of being considered "political" in a game to you. Echo chamber.... again. Oh... wait!!! You mean THOSE politics???? Lmao. Okay then. Persona and Catherine. Need a mix of both kinds of politics? GTA. Do I need to keep going? Because I have tons more for you.

VartioArtel · Dec 11, 2020

Bedel said:
Dude there are no "clues" about her being lesbian. She does kiss her childhood friend the game lmao. Did you expected more, or do people need it to be spell out loud? I mean yeah she could be bi, but not that it makes any change in the actual story...

And well, there's no need for heterosexual couples in the game. I mean, just as there's no need for homosexual couples in every game. Both are normal out there as they are, so...

I said I did not play the game and went based on the info I saw on Vice and the Fandom, and what gameplay I HAVE seen (which consists of very little of the start, and the hind end of the game).

Don't act condescending when neither the Fandom ( https://i.imgur.com/osZFFtA.png ) nor the Vice article ( https://i.imgur.com/T2Pwcab.png ) mention her being lesbian. I am going off what little I knew, a lot of what I've heard, and what absurdly few clues I was able to see.

As I mentioned that I have little/no experience of the game ( https://i.imgur.com/rxldBo9.png ) , it's amazing you had to go and act like such facts are in plain sight for everyone to see. And as I opened up: "Here's everything I understand:" - implying I was going off all the scenes I have seen (which really account only to what I've written about in my earlier post) and a vice article (and wiki/fandom).

And one last thing:

"And well, there's no need for heterosexual couples in the game. I mean, just as there's no need for homosexual couples in every game. Both are normal out there as they are, so..."

Inclusivity. If you're going to praise your game as inclusive, and include a homosexual/bisexual character, a transsexual, etc, then in all non-biased sincerity you should be including at least one major heterosexual coupling to also be 'inclusive'. The street should not, objectively, be one way that inclusivity should include LGBTQ+ but exclude Hetero.

The fact they have to make a focus on their relationships at all when ultimately these relationships are, using your own words, 'not needed'. What does Abby's sexual choice truly matter to the story? None. Ellie's? Little as she's the main character and people have a subconscious desire to know where the main character's life may lead down the line. But even this ends up a dead end meant to ultimately disappoint the players more as that relationship's ultimately torn from her to again elevate this somewhat implied background narrative Ellie must be punished for everything for wanting Revenge, yet Abby obtains all she ever really wants for hers.

You also said it yourself to back up my point: "I mean yeah she could be bi, but not that it makes any change in the actual story..." - if a character's sexuality ultimately doesn't matter to the story, why does it need to overtly focused on at all? A small bit of flirting, no need for a full blown kiss. Why was that needed?

I use Angelica Rogner from Trails of Cold Steel as a perfect example of an overt lesbian done right. Her being lesbian is a huge part of her character. She not once feels out of place as a lesbian, despite how hamfistedly lesbian she, hugging nearly every 'cute' female in sight (except the other physically muscular female in the main cast in Cold Steel 1, still need to go through CS2-4) is because while it's faithful to her sexuality, it also overtly is played for laughs to help tell a story and tell us who she is.

So what does being Lesbian give Abby? Nothing. It doesn't add anything to her character except checking off an inclusivity checkbox, as you've so properly noted. It doesn't define her as a person, it just defines her sexual preferences. If being a heterosexual isn't necessary, neither is having one's sexuality stated at all.

Ultimately your post does help bring up a point why people view the game as SJW/Woke. Because almost every character relationship except for father-daughter types in this game can literally be described with "because it is inclusive" (Abby kissing a female as you state, plus her sex scene, implies bisexuality, and Ellie is clearly lesbian), and "they could be relationship swapped and it wouldn't make any change in the actual story". So thanks for at least helping me work that out!

Big Man Tyrone2 · Dec 11, 2020

Payne said:
Such as?

Are we talking about games nominated at TGA? If not:

Deus Ex, Metal Gear, Bioshock.

Games do not have to be directly related to US/World Politics to have significant political themes.

nolimits59 · Dec 11, 2020

Payne said:
The only award I think tlou2 deserved was one for acceptability and sound. Making games accessible for disabled gamers is something that needs to be done more.

HL:Alyx deserved that Sound Design award, for real...

Payne · Dec 11, 2020

Big Man Tyrone2 said:
Games do not have to be directly related to US/World Politics to have significant political themes.

Well, gotta admit, did not think of it that way until now.

pedro702 · Dec 11, 2020

ut2k4master said:
completely disagree. the game worked as fantastic as it did because of tlou1.
the trailers were cut that way to avoid spoilers. you accusing them of "lying" is just malicious intent.
the game is far from "politically correct" and most video games are in fact "political", you haters are just mad because its "politics" you disagree with.
the game is liked by most gamers, you haters in your echo chamber are just a small minority

most games are political? lol cmon whare are you smoking? what does mario or zelda have of politics? same for preety much every nintendo game i see zero politics on them tbh, are god of war politically where? same for halo or gears? or sackboy or spider man?

there are games with political intents but most of them dont have any they are simply games...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

ut2k4master said:
every game thats about "good" vs "evil" is inherently political

good vs evil is not a political topic lol now your making your political thing a complete joke, doom eternal is not political, good vs evil is not a political thing at all.~doom would be more a religion topic rather than political topic if you even want to go there becuase its basicaly demons and hell.

and religion is everything but political topic, that is why people always try to keep religion away from politics same for good vs evil, that is not a political statement you might want to call it a religious believe to deice what is good or what is evil but not a political topic.

ut2k4master · Dec 11, 2020

pedro702 said:
most games are political? lol cmon whare are you smoking? what does mario or zelda have of politics? same for preety much every nintendo game i see zero politics on them tbh, are god of war politically where? same for halo or gears? or sackboy or spider man?

there are games with political intents but most of them dont have any they are simply games...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

good vs evil is not a political topic lol now your making your political thing a complete joke, doom eternal is not political, good vs evil is not a political thing at all.

sexuality isnt political yet here we are

VartioArtel · Dec 11, 2020

ut2k4master said:
sexuality isnt political yet here we are

I have a joke I sometimes tell to people I talk with:

"You can't take a piss in the toilet anymore without it being political".

pedro702 · Dec 11, 2020

ut2k4master said:
sexuality isnt political yet here we are

It is because some people dont think they should be allowed to get married, have kids and so on.

you can see how many political laws and changes were made to support same sex marriage and many other rights on recent decades, so it is a political topic because some people tough it was wrong and some people tough it was correct.And there is alot of debates still to be done on many countrys of the world.

now no one would play Mario and say who this game is political because a green turtle is bad and kidnaps a princess against their will...

Julie_Pilgrim · Dec 11, 2020

pedro702 said:
doom eternal is not political

Aren’t the bad guys capitalists making money off of hell?

pedro702 · Dec 11, 2020

Scott_pilgrim said:
Aren’t the bad guys capitalists making money off of hell?

you need to be a capitalist to want make money?

this is what is wrong with society this days lol, im guessing all drug lords are considered capitalist too? or simply anyone that has a business whose goal is to make money?

People who want to make money, doing right or wrong things to get it, are business men, they dont need to be capitalist to want their company to make money...

ut2k4master · Dec 11, 2020

pedro702 said:
It is because some people dont think they should be allowed to get married, have kids and so on.

you can see how many political laws and changes were made to support same sex marriage and many other rights on recent decades, so it is a political topic because some people tough it was wrong and some people tough it was correct.And there is alot of debates still to be done on many countrys of the world.

now no one would play Mario and say who this game is political because a green turtle is bad and kidnaps a princess against their will...

thats mostly a religious issue. so religion seems to be political after all according to you

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