[POLL] 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

[Deleted User]

Once again, you have no evidence that this is the case. All you're working with is Trump saying that he likes downplaying the virus in public so as to not cause a panic, which is perfectly reasonable.

No we are working with voice recordings. None of them are out of context.

In regards to funding, even the WHO did not declare COVID-19 to be a pandemic until mid-March, I don't see why Trump would've thought any differently in February. He knew that it was airborne, and worse than the flu - I knew that too, but watching Chinese Twitter is not exactly verified intelligence one can base policy on. Once again, an emotional response based on an out-of-context quote.

And did it ever cross your mind once at all that WHO didn't know what Trump knew? Trump could of had a source from any of the thousands of people who collect information for a living.

In regards to the U.S. Strategic National Stockpile, you're telling half-truths. This might come as a bit of a surprise, but it was *never* intended for immediate use in a pandemic. The states were *always* responsible for their pandemic preparation, the stockpile was there in order to provide emergency relief in the event that *local supply runs out*. This has only changed in April under Trump and the stockpile now functions as a stopgap buffer.

It's also worth mentioning that by the time COVID came along the stockpile was gutted, the Obama administration did not make any significant effort to restock it after the 2009 flu epidemic, in case you were wondering why supplies are low. The last president who actually made any pandemic preparations at the stockpile was Bush, in the wake of 9/11, in order to prepare for possible anthrax attacks.

Are you seriously blaming this on Obama?
haha....HAHAAHAAHAAAAHAAAA
hysterical laughter
if Obama did, trump had 3-4 years to fix it as a leader. Are you seriously telling me it's one man's fault who hasn't been in office for almost 4 years now, to fix a problem like that. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY telling me that. That's a joke of a response. I personally don't care for Obama, but holy crap that is one hell of a joke you got there.
"oh mr constructor it wasn't my fault the plans failed, it failed because tommy made them"
"but tommy quit his job four years ago and you were tasked with making a better plan"
"it's Tommy made bad plans, he impacted us"
"and you had.... four years to redo them"
Now on to the rest of this nonsense you spewed out. Hopefully I don't loose my sanity while talking to you again. Manic laughter is not fun.
"The states were *always* responsible for their pandemic preparation"
Hey, hey, y-you want to learn a secret? Come closer, now now, a little closer.
clears voice
A president is a leader right?
So, if your the president, are you seriously telling me that it's the states fault for the fact the president is knowingly lying, and also withholding critical information that can save lives. You know
NOT doing the job of a leader
he could of spent time getting everyone together to create a solid response. Instead he squatted on the ground and shat until the stock market started plummeting while speaking out of his asshole with pr

 

[Foxi4]

No we are working with voice recordings. None of them are out of context.

And did it ever cross your mind once at all that WHO didn't know what Trump knew? Trump could of had a source from any of the thousands of people who collect information for a living.

Are you seriously blaming this on Obama?
haha....HAHAAHAAHAAAAHAAAA
hysterical laughter
if Obama did, trump had 3-4 years to fix it as a leader. Are you seriously telling me it's one man's fault who hasn't been in office for almost 4 years now, to fix a problem like that. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY telling me that. That's a joke of a response. I personally don't care for Obama, but holy crap that is one hell of a joke you got there.
"oh mr constructor it wasn't my fault the plans failed, it failed because tommy made them"
"but tommy quit his job four years ago and you were tasked with making a better plan"
"it's Tommy made bad plans, he impacted us"
"and you had.... four years to redo them"
Now on to the rest of this nonsense you spewed out. Hopefully I don't loose my sanity while talking to you again. Manic laughter is not fun.
"The states were *always* responsible for their pandemic preparation"
Hey, hey, y-you want to learn a secret? Come closer, now now, a little closer.
clears voice
A president is a leader right?
So, if your the president, are you seriously telling me that it's the states fault for the fact the president is knowingly lying, and also withholding critical information that can save lives. You know
NOT doing the job of a leader
he could of spent time getting everyone together to create a solid response. Instead he squatted on the ground and shat until the stock market started plummeting while speaking out of his asshole with pr

I don't know how many times I have to say that the recordings do not state what you claim they state. There is absolutely nothing on them that suggests Trump or his administration misled any state government. All he says is he "likes to play it down" because he "doesn't want to create a panic", which is precisely the same thing he says publicly, and obviously refers to his own public appearances, not the government response. If you're such an expert on the matter of Woodward's recordings, perhaps you should listen to them. I won't even discuss this point any further with you since you've began repeating yourself. You can interpret what he said however you want, that doesn't bother me - anyone can listen to the two recordings that were released, they're public. I don't feel particularly compelled to argue about something anyone can verify themselves at any time.

In regards to Obama, I don't have to blame him for anything, it is verifiable fact that he hasn't restocked the stockpile in any meaningful way throughout the 8 years of his presidency, which is why much of the equipment was faulty once it was re-opened. Happy to take from it, not so happy to restock it. It's also fact that none of the equipment would've been available to the states if Trump's administration hadn't changed the regulations in April and hadn't put DHHS in control of it, as opposed to the CDC, which they did in 2018. The states had an obligation to maintain their own pandemic response stockpiles, a responsibility they have neglected in order to save money. The stockpile was not designed to sprinkle magical equipment on states that don't care about their citizens because it isn't ran by Oprah - it's only giving away equipment now because Trump's administration made it so. It used to be an emergency backup *only*, it was never meant to be open at all *unless* local supply has ran out. Now it operates as a supplement to local supply, and you have Trump to thank for that.

 

[Deleted User]

I don't know how many times I have to say that the recordings do not state what you claim they state. There is absolutely nothing on them that suggests Trump or his administration misled any state government. All he says is he "likes to play it down" because he "doesn't want to create a panic", which is precisely the same thing he says publicly, and obviously refers to his own public appearances, not the government response.

Then please explain to me why the response was handled so poorly? If other governors knew how bad it was, then why was it done so poorly? surely many of them would of acted within that month a week later. not a whole month.
That's a pretty fatal flaw in your line of logic. If the governors knew the issue on the seventh. I would imagine a plan would of been enacted sooner, not later.
And if there is no communication there, that we can assume what the governors knew was the same as the public, therefore, yes he did lie.
It's what's between the lines and order of events that tell me yes he did lie.
He knew that information in February 7th. his response team nonsense started in late February 27th, that's nearly two weeks later.. Again, it's pretty heavily implied the governors didn't get the information Trump got. Since the rest of them started acting around Late mid to late march with school shutdowns.
And since you brought up Obama again, does, it matter?
Trump could of, and at anytime with his presidency, do something about that stockpile, he could of created a mandate, or an executive order, or perhaps talk to people about it and create a solution rather than waiting for last possible moment or being unprepared to have it blow up. That's why it's dumb to blame Obama on this. Trump had 4 years to do something. Are you seriously telling me that he couldn't have done nothing within those four years to create some plan to restock?
Because that is essentially what your telling me.
Obama didn't leave the best situation regarding that,
but a good leader knows how to do patch work, rather than having something blow up in their face and blaming the previous person in charge, especially when that position is one of the highest in command.
Further more in 2018 he disbanded the pandemic team. Also Obama did leave a pandemic response plan, a guide book. Which guess what? was ignored.

.

 

[KingVamp]

I mean, the fact Trump still isn't trying to fix things and in fact, encouraging things to get worse with his rallies.

 

[Lacius]

I don't know how many times I have to say that the recordings do not state what you claim they state. There is absolutely nothing on them that suggests Trump or his administration misled any state government. All he says is he "likes to play it down" because he "doesn't want to create a panic", which is precisely the same thing he says publicly, and obviously refers to his own public appearances, not the government response. If you're such an expert on the matter of Woodward's recordings, perhaps you should listen to them. I won't even discuss this point any further with you since you've began repeating yourself. You can interpret what he said however you want, that doesn't bother me - anyone can listen to the two recordings that were released, they're public. I don't feel particularly compelled to argue about something anyone can verify themselves at any time.

In regards to Obama, I don't have to blame him for anything, it is verifiable fact that he hasn't restocked the stockpile in any meaningful way throughout the 8 years of his presidency, which is why much of the equipment was faulty once it was re-opened. Happy to take from it, not so happy to restock it. It's also fact that none of the equipment would've been available to the states if Trump's administration hadn't changed the regulations in April and hadn't put DHHS in control of it, as opposed to the CDC, which they did in 2018. The states had an obligation to maintain their own pandemic response stockpiles, a responsibility they have neglected in order to save money. The stockpile was not designed to sprinkle magical equipment on states that don't care about their citizens because it isn't ran by Oprah - it's only giving away equipment now because Trump's administration made it so. It used to be an emergency backup *only*, it was never meant to be open at all *unless* local supply has ran out. Now it operates as a supplement to local supply, and you have Trump to thank for that.

The recordings demonstrate that when Trump told us COVID-19 wasn't a big deal, was like the flu, couldn't affect younger people, etc., he was lying. When he told people to go about their business as usual, he knew that would put people in danger.

 

[Foxi4]

The recordings demonstrate that when Trump told us COVID-19 wasn't a big deal, was like the flu, couldn't affect younger people, etc., he was lying. When he told people to go about their business as usual, he knew that would put people in danger.

That's not what he was arguing. If it was, I'd be inclined to agree - he was putting people "in danger" that is roughly equivalent to 5x the flu, based on the tape. I don't even remember how many months into "14 days to flatten the curve" we are at here, but I think I'm all "lockdowned-out", if that makes sense. Since I'm not part of any high risk group and I'm not shielding for anyone, there's nothing I would like more than to get right back to business as usual, but I understand the position of those who aren't as fortunate. The reality of it all is that we can't be "locked down" forever, this state of "increased caution" has to end at some point, and I don't think that point is "when we have a vaccine". Mask-wearing and good personal hygiene are good enough for me for the time being.

 

[PityOnU]

Eh.

I mean, honestly, this country is in dire need of some progressive new policies. QoL for the majority of people could be improved significantly just by addressing some very obvious issues (healthcare and education, primarily), so that's where I would lean. But it always seems like the people who would be helped most by the policies (working class) are also the ones who are most strongly against them. So it gets kind of tiring sticking your neck out all the time for people who do not want to be helped.

So, if I were to instead just vote in my own self interest, I would vote Trump. Here is why:

COVID has been handled terribly, and it's predicted the housing market is going to crash once the moratorium on evictions is lifted. But that's actually great for me because my job can be done entirely remotely and I'm actually looking to buy a house. So fuck you all.

No guaranteed healthcare means that a lot of people end up getting slapped with huge hospital bills. But I'm young, healthy, and have great insurance through my job. No new taxes or changes sounds great to me. So fuck you all.

Despite unemployment being super high, the stock market is actually doing really well. I'm heavily invested - more of that please. So fuck you all.

There is currently a ton of civil unrest in the United States, with the two sides are stereotypically composed of economically disadvantaged groups (African Americans and working class conservatives). But that doesn't effect me at all because I live in a wealthy area and am very far removed from it all. Might actually help me some as everyone is distracted from any issues that would cost me money or effort. So fuck you all.

 

[Foxi4]

Eh.

I mean, honestly, this country is in dire need of some progressive new policies. QoL for the majority of people could be improved significantly just by addressing some very obvious issues (healthcare and education, primarily), so that's where I would lean. But it always seems like the people who would be helped most by the policies (working class) are also the ones who are most strongly against them. So it gets kind of tiring sticking your neck out all the time for people who do not want to be helped.

So, if I were to instead just vote in my own self interest, I would vote Trump. Here is why:

COVID has been handled terribly, and it's predicted the housing market is going to crash once the moratorium on evictions is lifted. But that's actually great for me because my job can be done entirely remotely and I'm actually looking to buy a house. So fuck you all.

No guaranteed healthcare means that a lot of people end up getting slapped with huge hospital bills. But I'm young, healthy, and have great insurance through my job. No new taxes or changes sounds great to me. So fuck you all.

Despite unemployment being super high, the stock market is actually doing really well. I'm heavily invested - more of that please. So fuck you all.

There is currently a ton of civil unrest in the United States, with the two sides are stereotypically composed of economically disadvantaged groups (African Americans and working class conservatives). But that doesn't effect me at all because I live in a wealthy area and am very far removed from it all. Might actually help me some as everyone is distracted from any issues that would cost me money or effort. So fuck you all.

I mean, self-interest is as good a motivation as any, can't fault that line of thinking regardless of whether it's said in all seriousness or in jest. You have to look after number one, nobody else will. I personally think that all of those things can in fact *improve* under Trump, for everyone, not just for those who are well-off, but that's a different discussion.

 

[Lacius]

That's not what he was arguing. If it was, I'd be inclined to agree - he was putting people "in danger" that is roughly equivalent to 5x the flu, based on the tape. I don't even remember how many months into "14 days to flatten the curve" we are at here, but I think I'm all "lockdowned-out", if that makes sense. Since I'm not part of any high risk group and I'm not shielding for anyone, there's nothing I would like more than to get right back to business as usual, but I understand the position of those who aren't as fortunate. The reality of it all is that we can't be "locked down" forever, this state of "increased caution" has to end at some point, and I don't think that point is "when we have a vaccine". Mask-wearing and good personal hygiene are good enough for me for the time being.

Trump argued, and continues to argue, that COVID-19 is no big deal, and he knowingly lied about it. He literally said "it's like the flu" in public and said "it's not like the flu" on tape. He literally said "young people can get it" on tape and "young people can't get it" in public. He called it "dangerous" and "deadly" on tape, and he called it "not dangerous" and "not deadly" in public. Respectfully, you're making a fool of yourself. You can argue why he lied, but you can't argue he didn't lie. He admitted it.

Worse, Trump and his administration are now arguing (and promoting with official US policy) that we should just let as many people get infected as possible in order to gain a herd immunity, which would result in millions of deaths.

 

[gregory-samba]

I mean, the fact Trump still isn't trying to fix things and in fact, encouraging things to get worse with his rallies.

If there's nothing wrong with tens of thousands of people gathering together to protest and riot there's nothing wrong with tens of thousands of people gathering for any other reason. We're not in the end stages of capitalism, we're in a period of time where people who hate our country want to overthrow our current Government and are trying to blackmail society by stating they are going to riot, loot, burn buildings, attack innocent people and basically break any law they please until they get their way. Attorney General Barr is right to recommend some of the more severe rioters be arrested for sedition because they are admittingly wanting to overthrow the Government, rip up the US Constitution and replace it with a very old always proven to fail way of Government that was created by old rich white men.

So again, if it's okay for X group to gather in the tens of thousands for Y reason it's okay for X2 to gather in the tens of thousands for Y2 reasons. However, it's not about peoples safety when it comes to pushing socialism on everyone else, regardless if they want it or not. At that point it's all about you, which is sort funny because if socialism does come to pass then you won't matter anymore.

Now onto this nonsense that Trump isn't doing anything about the Chinese COVID-19 virus. What exactly where Nancy and the rest of the House Democrats doing late last year and earlier this year when COVID was starting to spread? She and the rest of them could care less and were simply trying to impeach Trump over trumped up charges while completely ignoring the virus. We've got Nancy on tape stating to go out and don't fear it earlier this year. The Democrats didn't lift a finger and could have cared less about the Chinese COVID 19 virus back when Trump was closing borders, stopping International traffic and putting together teams of people to create policies to deal with the virus. The Democrats called each and every move Trump made "racist" while they sat on their hands and did nothing.

I think the majority of everyone seems to give China a pass on the virus when it's now been proven to have existed in the United States of America before 2020 as China tried to cover it up and lied to the entire world about it. The head of the snake is China and any local governments mistakes, which there's tons of blame to go around, are just symptoms of the problem ... the problem China created. It's China's fault, not your neighbor that simply doesn't want to wear something that might make the problem worse.

Trump is not perfect and anyone that thinks he is perfect is a complete fool. He doesn't run the entire Government by himself. Even if he is the defacto to blame person on the top, most of what's gone wrong with the entire situation isn't actually his fault. We had the WHO and CDC lie to the majority of the population when this started and claimed that face masks didn't work so they could horde them and then come out with contradictory information on a weekly basis. Do this, don't do that, wait now do that and this, oops, don't do that, hold up, why are you doing this? The CDC and WHO have become a laughing stock of bad advice after bad advice. "Things change fast and we learn more", which is exactly why rushing to judgement is a bad idea to begin with. The contradictory guidelines, advise and policies are a clear example of their ignorance. I don't blame anyone that doesn't want to listen to them any longer.

To end I want to say that I'm not really worried about a virus with a 99.8% survival rate and I think Trump's entire approach could have been a bit more diplomatic, but then I remind myself I didn't vote for a politician nor do we need any more career politicians running things. If you missed it I've already posted in this thread claiming I'm voting for Trump come November and my mind hasn't changed a single bit.

 

[omgcat]

can't wait to see trump in the debates. he will have to debate without a crowd in front of him. he's gonna go nuts.

also things are going to be interesting now that the Pennsylvania supreme court ruled that mail in ballots deadline got extended to 3 days after election day, and that the green party candidate did not follow procedures and cannot be on the ballot.

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/09/17/mail-in-ballots-deadline-extended-pennsylvania/

 

[Deleted User]

I hate everyone that's running. I hate them all! They are all horrible options!

 

[KingVamp]

If there's nothing wrong with tens of thousands of people gathering together to protest and riot there's nothing wrong with tens of thousands of people gathering for any other reason. We're not in the end stages of capitalism, we're in a period of time where people who hate our country want to overthrow our current Government and are trying to blackmail society by stating they are going to riot, loot, burn buildings, attack innocent people and basically break any law they please until they get their way. Attorney General Barr is right to recommend some of the more severe rioters be arrested for sedition because they are admittingly wanting to overthrow the Government, rip up the US Constitution and replace it with a very old always proven to fail way of Government that was created by old rich white men.

So again, if it's okay for X group to gather in the tens of thousands for Y reason it's okay for X2 to gather in the tens of thousands for Y2 reasons. However, it's not about peoples safety when it comes to pushing socialism on everyone else, regardless if they want it or not. At that point it's all about you, which is sort funny because if socialism does come to pass then you won't matter anymore.

Nothing about this addresses nor excuses Trump and his administration from completely botching this pandemic and still continuing not to follow any safety precautions even for his own rallies. No amount whataboutism or misusing and spamming socialism and communism is going change that.

No one said anything about socialism. None of the candidates right now, are even socialist. In fact, this isn't even about capitalism. Safety precautions against the virus, isn't anymore socialism than having to use a seat belt. That is, not at all.

 

[omgcat]

I hate everyone that's running. I hate them all! They are all horrible options!

Cool, you don't have to vote if you don't want to.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Cool, you don't have to vote if you don't want to.

The same goes to anyone who doesn't like Trump or Biden.

 

[Foxi4]

Trump argued, and continues to argue, that COVID-19 is no big deal, and he knowingly lied about it. He literally said "it's like the flu" in public and said "it's not like the flu" on tape. He literally said "young people can get it" on tape and "young people can't get it" in public. He called it "dangerous" and "deadly" on tape, and he called it "not dangerous" and "not deadly" in public. Respectfully, you're making a fool of yourself. You can argue why he lied, but you can't argue he didn't lie. He admitted it.

Worse, Trump and his administration are now arguing (and promoting with official US policy) that we should just let as many people get infected as possible in order to gain a herd immunity, which would result in millions of deaths.

I don't know what's up with you guys and reading. That is not what he (@monkeyman4412) argued. Monkey argued that Trump mislead state governments by giving them false information, there is no indication of that, and no evidence, that any state or federal official were given incorrect data on the virus deliberately. It's not on the tape. You can rewind it as many times you want, you won't find it there because that is not what was said. Perhaps you should slow down and actually read the post before typing out an angry paragraph that has absolutely nothing to do with what's being talked about.

 

[Lacius]

I don't know what's up with you guys and reading. That is not what he (@monkeyman4412) argued. Monkey argued that Trump mislead state governments by giving them false information, there is no indication of that, and no evidence, that any state or federal official were given incorrect data on the virus deliberately. It's not on the tape. You can rewind it as many times you want, you won't find it there because that is not what was said. Perhaps you should slow down and actually read the post before typing out an angry paragraph that has absolutely nothing to do with what's being talked about.

I'm not talking about anything monkeyman said (I didn't even read it). I'm telling you what Trump said.

As for false information, Trump gave *everyone* false information. The Trump CDC continues now to give out false information.

 

[Foxi4]

I'm not talking about anything monkeyman said (I didn't even read it). I'm telling you what Trump said.

As for false information, Trump gave *everyone* false information. The Trump CDC continues now to give out false information.

Perhaps you should read conversations you inject yourself into. As for CDC reporting "fake" data, you have no evidence of that, you're basing it entirely on the administration taking a more active role in the reporting. All pandemic estimates go through revisions, this is not unusual.

 

[Deleted User]

I don't know what's up with you guys and reading. That is not what he (@monkeyman4412) argued. Monkey argued that Trump mislead state governments by giving them false information, there is no indication of that, and no evidence, that any state or federal official were given incorrect data on the virus deliberately. It's not on the tape. You can rewind it as many times you want, you won't find it there because that is not what was said. Perhaps you should slow down and actually read the post before typing out an angry paragraph that has absolutely nothing to do with what's being talked about.

Let's do a mini recap since clearly, you spewed talking points and derailed, subtly goal post moving.

you: dems have conflicting views trump is somehow dumb and smart at the same time
me: he's a pathological liar and criminal
you: charity
me: it doesn't matter
You: biden is worse than trump mentally
me: trump is unhealthy, golf is not a sport, and is obese.
you: water thing is funny

me: does it change what I said? he's still a liar, he still spends too much time tweeting and too much fox news
you: your dumb because you believe the too much fox news story, trump playing 3d chess
me: does it change what I said?
you: yes but actually no, pardiam your a fool for believing or wanting honesty in government.
Also you: "I don't remember him lying about COVID I remember him saying he didn't want to cause a panic."
me: Yes we do the tapes and leaders regarding possible pandemic's shouldn't lie


You: it's not a clean cut case
omgcat: He witheld information
you: he was just downplaying the virus and your making a out of context quote
also you: chinese twitter is not verifiable, and regarding funding, WHO did not declare COVID-19 to be a pandemic,
I don't see why Trump would thought differently. Also Obama didn't restock supply
(then a lot of additional nonsense)
I return:
No we do have evidence, again the tapes (essentially agreeing with @omgcat)
I respond to your WHO comment saying Trump may of witheld that information, as WHO may of not known.

I then respond to what is essentially you trying to move blame from trump to obama. And point out that it's stupid that
he couldn't somehow restock in four years
you:"I don't know how many times I have to state that they weren't mislead/lied too by trump"
Me:We can reasonably assume that yes he did since states didn't act for a whole month and a half. from these tapes date"
And even then, he's supposed to be a leader, so he should of gotten a unified response end of story

 

[Lacius]

Perhaps you should read conversations you inject yourself into. As for CDC reporting "fake" data, you have no evidence of that, you're basing it entirely on the administration taking a more active role in the reporting. All pandemic estimates go through revisions, this is not unusual.

You made false statements about Trump and the tapes. I corrected it. If you have an issue, address it specifically. I intentionally bypassed the conversion you were having to correct specific misinformation.

We know for a fact that Michael Caputo tried to "change, delay, suppress, and retroactively edit scientific reports on COVID-19 by the Centers for Disease Control that were deemed to contradict or undermine what Trump was saying publicly."
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/...nterfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809