When does your personal mental cutoff for "old games" begin? Do you have an end date as well?

tempy_thinker.png

"old consoles like the N64" and "my parents used to play Resident Evil" are but two examples of phrases that have made me think "wow I am old" when doing the rounds of the forums over the years. In my case I had been playing games for a long time before the predecessors of the consoles in question were even industry rumours. This often leads to people maybe knowing about games from "back then" (wherever that may be) but seldom having lived it and lumping/blurring all things before then together in their heads, despite the massive changes that any would be student of the art in question will tell you about. If games are hard to conceptualise this for then maybe think what you think of as old music, or old films, and then consider that you can likely find hours of long form documentaries detailing the importance of maybe 5 years (or just one band) wherein something like jazz and blues formed, or rock and roll, punk, metal (and divisions thereof), hip hop and more besides. Coincidentally 5 years is also about the average length of a console generation. Modern historians of any field will also consider living memory as part of their work, and while they tends to refer the world as a whole there are offshoots.

On the flip side I have met the opposite side of things where people might not have fallen out of gaming, but fallen out of current gaming. Now my misgivings with the current generation of consoles formed the basis of a previous entry in this series but it does also mean that while I was very current with the xbox 360 and DS (often writing up and discussing new releases as they dropped) I am rather less familiar with the order of releases (or indeed no releases worth considering) for the PS4, xbone, 3ds and beyond. Now I contend that is for good reason and that things today are plenty recognisable but don't do it that well, probably by virtue of bad monetisation schemes, but the effects are still the same. I have seen others that fell out during the PS2, but still retain a seemingly encyclopaedic knowledge of 8 and 16 bit consoles, even the more obscure ones. Do you have something similar, or maybe just a gap somewhere?

Assuming you are not old enough to remember the first game (and are also willing to forgo the electromechanical debate) then when do your memories of games start, and when do they start to be fairly crystallised with respect to time (this came after that, this led to that, this paved the way for...)? One also wonders how it might play out as not everybody got gaming magazines or TV shows, or possibly cared about such things, and thus while technical release dates are one thing if you never got it before the next year (or maybe if you are in a PAL region you might only just be getting it).

In my case in addition to the lack of current stuff above then the commodore 64 is probably fairly in order, and while I played many things on a bbc micro, vic20 and whatever else (I was doing retro before it was cool, mainly because it was cheap and things still played well enough) they are all "old games" in my head. The NES I can do reasonably well but it would be the 16 bit era before I can recount releases. PS1 on through the 360 is all very clear. Being very much PAL bound before the N64 (and even then that was but a handful of games with an adapter) it will also be very PAL, or indeed UK, centric. Some of this is likely also changed or informed by my tendency to go for second hand games when they get cheaper, or indeed after consoles have died and we are onto the next.

Or to finish the "wow I am old thing" then if you are 18 today it is quite possible your hand me down console you got at say 5 or 6 (so 2006, the xbox 360 having already been released and seeing the release of the Wii and PS3) was a PS2 and everything before that might be expected to be from the before times. If you were from a richer family, or just starting out, said 18 year old might well have started with a PS3, 360 or Wii.

This is part of a discussion series wherein we contemplate things about games, be it concepts, individual games, the industry at large, mechanics or the gaming culture at large. Previously we discussed games and media franchises you know mostly from offbeat and forgotten sources.

 

Darth Meteos

Entertainer
Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,670
Trophies
1
Age
29
Location
The Wrong Place
XP
5,667
Country
United States
I think gaming is in five ages. Whichever age you began to game in, the age before it and backward is "old games."

The Proto Age: First attempts at computing games ending with the creation of Pong
Basically any pre-Pong attempts to create interactive media.

The Basic Age: From Pong to the launch of the NES
Including the rise and fall of the Atari 2600, its failed successors and the arcade explosion thanks to Namco's Pac Man and other titles.

The Cartridge Age: The launch of the NES through to the launch of the PS2
Obviously this includes a few disk based consoles, but by and large, this era was defined by cartridges. The second video game boom, followed by the Bit Wars and the first true 3D games. On top of that, handheld gaming is born, led by the Game Boy.

The Disk Age: The launch of the PS2 through the launch of the PS4/Xbox One
This is where games by and large had enough graphical fidelity and space to fit high quality 100+ hour experiences onto a single disk. The rapid graphical arms race, the rise of Microsoft, and the decline of Nintendo as a gamer-focused company.

The Neo Age: The launch of the PS4/Xbox One to right now
The number of concessions made for storage have essentially bottomed out. Gaming is now without a need for compromise, and enormous games are the norm. The beginnings of VR. The fall and rise of Nintendo is complete. The launch of the PS5/Xbox will likely not end this era.

It could be theorized the next era will be VR-based systems, or working cloud-gaming. Time will tell.
 

FAST6191

Techromancer
OP
Editorial Team
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
36,798
Trophies
3
XP
28,321
Country
United Kingdom
I think gaming is in five ages. Whichever age you began to game in, the age before it and backward is "old games."

The Proto Age: First attempts at computing games ending with the creation of Pong
Basically any pre-Pong attempts to create interactive media.

The Basic Age: From Pong to the launch of the NES
Including the rise and fall of the Atari 2600, its failed successors and the arcade explosion thanks to Namco's Pac Man and other titles.

The Cartridge Age: The launch of the NES through to the launch of the PS2
Obviously this includes a few disk based consoles, but by and large, this era was defined by cartridges. The second video game boom, followed by the Bit Wars and the first true 3D games. On top of that, handheld gaming is born, led by the Game Boy.

The Disk Age: The launch of the PS2 through the launch of the PS4/Xbox One
This is where games by and large had enough graphical fidelity and space to fit high quality 100+ hour experiences onto a single disk. The rapid graphical arms race, the rise of Microsoft, and the decline of Nintendo as a gamer-focused company.

The Neo Age: The launch of the PS4/Xbox One to right now
The number of concessions made for storage have essentially bottomed out. Gaming is now without a need for compromise, and enormous games are the norm. The beginnings of VR. The fall and rise of Nintendo is complete. The launch of the PS5/Xbox will likely not end this era.

It could be theorized the next era will be VR-based systems, or working cloud-gaming. Time will tell.

I don't know that I would make that final split, and I also have to wonder where arcade and the rise of the PC fit in that. Back on the final split thing then other than the more recent games themselves largely being bland and forgettable I am not seeing much functional difference between the PS360 and Xbone/ps4 in terms of map size, control styles/quality, gameplay design or anything else that one would note in that. Compare the PS360 to the PS2 and original xbox and it can be night and day for many of those, especially if you discount technical gimmicks that seldom amounted to much (stuff like Delta force technically having infinite maps, to say nothing of the controls and physics in such games).

I am also not sure I would tie off cartridges for home use at the end of the PS1 and N64 as much as the start of those. The shift to dedicated 3d processing in all of those and move away from 2d sprites (with limited exceptions for the Saturn and some PS1 efforts) being a far more radical shift.
 
  • Like
Reactions: banjo2

Darth Meteos

Entertainer
Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
1,670
Trophies
1
Age
29
Location
The Wrong Place
XP
5,667
Country
United States
I don't know that I would make that final split, and I also have to wonder where arcade and the rise of the PC fit in that.
Arcades are not so much important to the console gaming, which is what it's broadly about. Proto is pre-console, Basic is first console boom, Cartridge is second console boom. The rise of arcades is mentioned specifically because arcade ports were the biggest sellers at the time and drove people to want to take the arcade home with them. The rise of PC is its own thing, it changes so rapidly that it would have its own eras of time.

... the more recent games themselves largely being bland and forgettable...
Let's keep biases out of this.

I am not seeing much functional difference between the PS360 and Xbone/ps4 in terms of map size, control styles/quality, gameplay design or anything else that one would note in that. Compare the PS360 to the PS2 and original xbox and it can be night and day for many of those, especially if you discount technical gimmicks that seldom amounted to much (stuff like Delta force technically having infinite maps, to say nothing of the controls and physics in such games).
I'm seeing the functional difference. PS3 is the natural evolution of PS2, Xbox 360 the natural evolution of the Xbox. They were much more powerful, but ultimately, there was still consideration to be made on resources, concessions on the amount of data. That's not always the case anymore. The current age is one where the gap between consumer electronics and superelectronics is becoming smaller all the time, and it appears to be a major shift in development.

It's a difference of opinion. I think the difference between Saturn/PS1/N64 and Dreamcast/PS2/Gamecube/Xbox games is much greater than the difference between the latter and PS3/Xbox 360.

I am also not sure I would tie off cartridges for home use at the end of the PS1 and N64 as much as the start of those. The shift to dedicated 3d processing in all of those and move away from 2d sprites (with limited exceptions for the Saturn and some PS1 efforts) being a far more radical shift.
PS1 and N64 were on the badlands of 3D, they generally don't hold up and are clunky at best.* 3D hit its stride in PS2/XB/Gamecube, where they are able to be not just be good 3D games, but good games in general. I don't place much stock in the first 3D games, I don't think the shift was complete until the generation after, in the same way I don't think VR has hit its stride yet, even though there are many attempts so far.

*Yes there are good games. Yes you can point at a few classics and say they worked. But on the whole, twin stick controls were born during that generation, camera was dirty, and movement was primitive compared to any standard 3D game of the generation after.

man this take is gonna make me a lot of friends
 
Last edited by Darth Meteos,
  • Like
Reactions: Alexander1970

FAST6191

Techromancer
OP
Editorial Team
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
36,798
Trophies
3
XP
28,321
Country
United Kingdom
Arcades are not so much important to the console gaming, which is what it's broadly about. Proto is pre-console, Basic is first console boom, Cartridge is second console boom. The rise of arcades is mentioned specifically because arcade ports were the biggest sellers at the time and drove people to want to take the arcade home with them. The rise of PC is its own thing, it changes so rapidly that it would have its own eras of time.


Let's keep biases out of this.


I'm seeing the functional difference. PS3 is the natural evolution of PS2, Xbox 360 the natural evolution of the Xbox. They were much more powerful, but ultimately, there was still consideration to be made on resources, concessions on the amount of data. That's not always the case anymore. The current age is one where the gap between consumer electronics and superelectronics is becoming smaller all the time, and it appears to be a major shift in development.

It's a difference of opinion. I think the difference between Saturn/PS1/N64 and Dreamcast/PS2/Gamecube/Xbox games is much greater than the difference between the latter and PS3/Xbox 360.


PS1 and N64 were on the badlands of 3D, they generally don't hold up and are clunky at best.* 3D hit its stride in PS2/XB/Gamecube, where they are able to be not just be good 3D games, but good games in general. I don't place much stock in the first 3D games, I don't think the shift was complete until the generation after, in the same way I don't think VR has hit its stride yet, even though there are many attempts so far.

*Yes there are good games. Yes you can point at a few classics and say they worked. But on the whole, twin stick controls were born during that generation, camera was dirty, and movement was primitive compared to any standard 3D game of the generation after.

man this take is gonna make me a lot of friends


The whole arcade perfect port thing would argue otherwise on home consoles and development thereof from where I sit, and I am very much counting PC games from the point where they became a thing in this.

As for biases I do really have a problem with PS4bone games, however what does dribble out looks, feels and plays like PS360 stuff (give or take the atrocious monetisation, which was hardly absent prior -- I still remember EA wanting to sell me a cheat for Skate 3 to unlock everything within the game) once it got rolling but with a slight bit more shiny at times. As far as evolutions then unless it is a complete dead end (see most takes on VR back when, and probably this go around as well) then everything influences everything else going forward.
As far as concessions on data counts then that still happens today, and back when it was not the worst thing either (at best some devs complained about memory). I think the biggest testament to that is PC games weren't racing ahead of consoles during that time, followed closely by what all the small devs could manage during those times too. I am also not seeing the lines between high end electronics and standard consumer fare being that blurred or only in the warranty (if anything I find it going the other way).

For console 3d then sure the PS1 and N64 were clunky as you like, though I have previously noted that when such games were ported or get the fancy emulators the games themselves still hold up quite well.
 
D

Deleted User

Guest
Objectively, old games are ones that are older than 2 console generations. For example, PS2/Xbox/Gamecube is old, 360/PS3 is still somewhat new. In about 1-2 years when the next generation launches, 360/PS3 will become old.

Personally, I had trouble letting go of PS2/Xbox/Gamecube as new because that was the console generation I spent the most time with, and when upscaled, the games are still basically the same quality as what we play today. Our controllers are basically the controllers from that generation, and everything from full MP3 audio to FMVs was possible back then.

Because of how fast technology moves, it's weird when people just a few years younger didn't even play an SNES and their childhood was Xbox. Economic status is part of that too, because I had a PC that, while not great, could play Atari-N64 games, and other people didn't, so they played maybe a handful of games on the one console they had. Even though Master System and Atari were old to me, there were still few enough new games that I went back and played and enjoyed them. New gamers will likely just stick to the latest 1-2 generations, and that's sad.

I have know other game systems so I like my ps2 and my 3ds the ps2 has good graphics and a decent amount of free roam games and the 3ds is good the games are crazy expensive but it has homebrew and so I can code apps for it and play homebrews such as Craftus
 

JuanMena

90's Kid, Old Skull Gamer & Artist
Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
4,879
Trophies
2
Age
30
Location
the 90's 💙
XP
10,018
Country
Mexico
Holy S, hard question you're making señor.

Ok...

So...

This hurts...

To me, when I was a child, I considered "Old games" to be the arcade games.
And always thought that "New games" where Nintendo ones, as when I was a mere child, had thought that Nintendo made all the games.

When I grow up, around 2008 got my Nintendo Wii that I'm still using to this very day... and my perception changed. Back then, I considered Old what I used to play when I was a child: Super Nintendo.

Now that I'm even older, I think my perception has changed yet again, considering old games, those from Atari 800, 2600, 7800, Commodore, Sinclair ZX, MSX and all those computer games.

I'd put it this way:

OLD: Everything before the SNES
NEW: From SNES to this day.

I say this because, I think that nothing hasn't changed since those SNES days in the 90's. I mean... talking from personal experience, many of the techniques that Nintendo used to develop their games, are still being used to this day.
Nothing aside from processing power has really changed! That's why I consider everything from the SNES up to this day as "NEW"

In the 90's, you had many genres comming, the N64 was like... AMAZING in 1996.
Only those who got to the blessing to play with an Atari, Famicom and SNES, surely can remember how huge was seeing Mario in a 3D world.
Kids from the 2000's just won simply understand why we grown ups keep playing all those "old N64" games.

"NEW" to me, means developing new ways to control your games, a more immersive experience.
In my opinion, it seems that nowadays "NEW" means "being able to run at 60fps" and that's it.
 

Light_Strategist

Well-Known Member
Newcomer
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
87
Trophies
0
Age
30
XP
305
Country
I consider myself a tiny bit weird in regards to this subject.

I can play certain NES games but not others Super Mario Bros. being one I can play for example.

When I first started gaming would've probably been around 1995, so I'd have been about 2. Assuming, memory serves well enough which I often have to question. First game I played was Sonic 1. Maybe it's the weirdness of how I was exposed to some older games later than some of the more recent ones of the time that makes a fair bit of sense for why I can go a little further back without struggling to keep up with the much more outdated controls. Because my first official introduction to Super Mario Bros. was actually through its Game Boy Color Port, Super Mario Bros. Deluxe.

What I find weird is that when I tried playing Fire Emblem Gaiden I couldn't put up with it for too long before quitting on it. It's from the early 90's but it just feels super stiff to me...
 

MockyLock

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
372
Trophies
1
XP
2,123
Country
France
For myself, the old era starts at PS2/XBOX (and eventually GC) gen, considering the tech side.
Technically, they were in what we could call a turn :
- They had integrated HDD (optional or not).
- They were in that era where you could (or had to) switch from 4/3 to 16/9 format.
- Games were CD or DVD.
- The video output was something between SD and the HD"Ready".
- You could still use RGB SCART on CRT, or YUV on flat screens.
- Controllers were still wired.
- They still had memory cards.

These are just some examples.

PS : I'm 40 yo, so i started to play with an Atari2600 on a B&W mono not-flat-not-square-angle CRT.
 
Last edited by MockyLock,
D

Deleted User

Guest
For desktop consoles, the cut-off point is SNES and PS1.
For handhelds, NDS (not i) and PSP.
X-Boxes are not "old consoles".
I am born in 1997, if that matters.
 
Last edited by ,

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
    Psionic Roshambo @ Psionic Roshambo: https://www.youtube.com/@legolambs