Nintendo's Paid Online: a yearly checkup/opinion piece

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Today, the 18th of September, marks the one year anniversary of Nintendo's "Online Service" for the Switch. While it was a year ago today that Switch owners gained access to the program, it wasn't until a week later that users started to be charged $20/year for access to this service. In February of 2017, then-president of Nintendo Tatsumi Kimishima said
"We really think that regardless of what others are doing or what services are being offered, it comes down to a battle of content. We feel it’s a matter of getting our content to the consumer at a price point that will make them happy, and then we’re willing to look at what else we can do going forward. This is just the starting point for us, so again, it’s a battle of content. We think we have what we need to win the battle on that front, and we hope to provide more details about the service going forward."
It was clear from even before the Switch's launch that this was to be a developing program, gaining features and proper functionality as time went on, but how well has the service fared up to this point?

2017

The story doesn't exactly begin in September of 2018, at least when discussing the Nintendo Switch's online performance. Games such as Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Splatoon 2 have had free online matchmaking functionality since their launches in April and July of 2017 respectively, just a little bit after the Switch's release in March of the same year. The online infrastructure and netcode for these titles had already been set in place and made functional, even more than a year behind the service's official launch in late 2018. But how?

Well, for those of us who don't happen to recall, the existence of the Switch's paid service was actually announced pre-launch of the console, and was originally planned to be rolled out in 2017, however, around Splatoon 2's release in July 2017, it was announced that the planned paywall would be delayed until late 2018. When Polygon asked Reggie Fils-Aime, the then-president of Nintendo of America, for reasons for the delay at 2017's E3, he responded:

As Nintendo looks at the overall online digital experience there’s a recognition that there’s a lot of work to be world class. And we pride ourselves … We believe our IP is world class. We believe that when we create a piece of hardware it’s world class. We need to get our digital environment world class. And that’s what we’re working hard to do.
We wanted to make sure that it is a robust, well-executed online environment, and for the $20 annual subscription fee, the consumer says, ‘This is a no-brainer. I want to participate. I’m all in.’

But as it would turn out, the service wasn't exactly a "no-brainer". At least, not in the way they intended.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Splatoon 2 are just two examples of Nintendo's first-party offerings in 2017 which had online functionality, and they were generally well-received as games. Mario Kart was criticized by some for being not much more than a port + DLC, but Splatoon 2 was apparently well liked, holding an 83 from critics and an 8.5 from users on metacritic at the time of writing, and further developing the strong fanbase that Splatoon 1 had established. Despite their relatively positive receptions, many factors of their online functionality were bemoaned by a large number of consumers playing them.

Random and frequent disconnections predominantly plagued all of these titles, as well as lag in all forms. Users could get upwards of 4-5 disconnect per stream on a bad day, and the lag in those games would make players being hit by invisible items, miss hitting players that appeared to be hit on the attacker's screen, and seeing red shells maneuver past their targets a constant occurrence, because the game couldn't properly keep track of which player was ahead of which. It was, in total honesty, a hilarious shit-show when we tried to steam it on temp's twitch channel, and while it made for entertaining content, it undeniably made for a very poor online gaming experience. These same issues were widespread enough among other users to prompt a number of online guides on how to reduce your Switch's online lag as early as April of 2017.

Splatoon 2 had a very contentious online mode at launch as well, specifically when it came to its lag issues. Many causes were blamed for this issue, but the most frequent goblin, so to speak, was the game's "tickrate." A user called Dessgeega on the Squidboards forum had this to say:
The tickrate, how often the game refreshes the connection between players, is only 16 per second. The first game was at 25. Overwatch is at 60 and even MINECRAFT does better at 20. The low tickrate combined with international matches means tons of lag, being killed by ghosts, teleportation, rubberbanding, and disconnects a-plenty.
These issues were not relegated to a few users, however, as the whole of the community seemed to have at least a healthy dose of contention when it came to the quality of Splatoon 2's online. Twitter was a common posting ground for irate players to display examples of lag killing them unfairly or erratic movement.


But of course this was a developing ecosystem, and free so far. People were very unhappy, and all but unanimously agreed that Nintendo needs to do better, but the service had yet to officially come.
Nintendo had time to improve things... right?

2018
2017 rolls over into 2018, and people are still sharing a plethora of sarcastic tweets criticizing the online of Nintendo's games. Mario Kart had seen not a single shred of improvement in its stability or its lag, and the new title that had come around this year, Mario Tennis Aces, was similarly being absolutely lambasted for its poor online performance.

Chris Hovermale of Destructoid wrote an article on July 21st of 2018, around a year after Splatoon 2's original release, describing the state of Splatoon 2's and Mario Tennis Aces' online functionalities as "unacceptable", and sometimes outright "unplayable".
...any time I search for opponents in online normal or tournament matches, I always have zero to two bars of connectivity, maybe three if I'm lucky. The very few times I successfully connect to an opponent, the unreliable lag spoils those exciting mechanics with frustration and boredom. The notion that I'll have to pay for this unplayable netcode in the near future feels insulting.
I’ve had plenty of online fun with Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Splatoon 2, but I regularly get disconnected during longer sessions. When I recently fired up MK8D to play with a friend, we found ourselves unable to keep our room open after about a dozen attempts.

Threads across gaming forums of all kinds sprang up one after the other containing irate customers feeling betrayed by the quality of the online experience. Splatoon 2 continued to receive just as much heat as it did at launch, and for all the same reasons. Visiting tweets from 2017 to 2018 and comparing them, it's evident that absolutely nothing had changed, and that the attitude around Nintendo's handling of their online games had only soured significantly. There's genuinely a twitter account called Splatoon2Lag, which is dedicated to publicizing instances of what they believe to be shoddy online in the game, active since August of 2017. (Their last retweeted tweet at the time of writing was from 9/11/2019.)
Even youtube has compilations of lag in Splatoon 2.


For a full year and a half after launch, Nintendo continued to put out games with woefully inadequate online performances, and people's attitudes became more sour and confrontational. Justifiably so.

and then came...
September 13th, 2018

With their finger as far from the pulse of the gaming community as they could possibly get it, Nintendo published a trailer introducing the features and release date of their official, paid "Online Service", to begin on the 18th. In the trailer, 5 features were announced: online play for compatible games, a small library of 20 NES games (with online features), save data backup to the cloud, a smartphone app for voice chat during online play, and some nebulous "special offers" yet to be revealed.

In order, let's revisit what the state of these features were during the months coming after its implementation.

The first feature was not a new feature at all, simply the announcement that the experience users had previously been "enjoying" was now locked behind the subscription's paywall. Mario Kart, Splatoon 2, Mario Tennis Aces, etc. would have their online functionality locked unless one was a subscriber to the online service. What upset customers more was that, as before, Nintendo provided no dedicated game servers of any kind, instead programming their games with peer-to-peer connections. Without the overhead of maintaining servers, people wondered exactly what they were paying Nintendo for, with many describing the service as "paying Nintendo to use your own internet."

In what Nintendo assumed would be sweetening the deal, they included a batch of 20 NES games to be played through a standalone app on the Switch. While they did include some beloved titles, such as Super Mario Bros., SMB3, and The Legend of Zelda, it also had a lot of what people thought were mediocre filler titles, like Ice Climbers, Pro Wrestling, Baseball, and Soccer, with Nintendo promising to release more NES games on a monthly basis. In most consumers' eyes, the Virtual Console, or its hypothetical equivalent on Switch, had been missing from the console for a year and a half. To many, this was the kind of thing you might have at launch, not gated behind a $20 paywall as a pittance inclusion as part of a subscription fee. In addition, the games are never technically "yours", as as soon as the subscription isn't renewed, the games become inaccessible.

In further absurdity, ever since December 30th of 2017, over 9 months ago, the homebrew scene had already set up a vastly superior alternative to this system in the form of RetroArch for Switch. Not only would it play any NES game you'd like, for free, it sported a lot of basic features that the official NES player embarrassingly did not. While one could use up to 4 save states with the NES online games, the emulator provided limited options in terms of filters and aspect ratios, no ability whatsoever to remap controls (making rolling your finger across the A and B buttons awkward due to the joycon button layout), and 4-5 frames of input lag compared to next-frame response time with RetroArch's runahead.

There was, however, one feature that RetroArch didn't have, and that was the ability to play NES games online with friends, a genuinely novel offering. Unfortunately, playing a Nintendo game online between myself and a fellow American one timezone away gave between 11-16 frames of input lag, and playing with someone in another country produced a maximum of 33 frames of input lag. Needless to say, while the idea was interesting, the quality of Nintendo's online ruined the joy of any game played through it.

What's more, save data backup being tied to a subscription fee felt like a scam to many people. Every other console on the market, and every other before it, allowed direct access to users' save data through a memory card or via transfer to an external data storage device, like a USB stick. This allowed people to backup their own data in case of corruption or theft, in order to make sure their progress could be saved. This was something that consumers felt was fundamental to have access to, and here it was being sold back to them. Worse yet, they would never have full control over their own data, with it being handled exclusively through Nintendo. Just to put the cherry on the cake, Nintendo not only announced that user cloud saves would be deleted if the subscription was not renewed within a 6 month period, they also announced that:
...in certain games this feature would make it possible to, for example, regain items that had been traded to other players, or revert to a higher online multiplayer ranking that had been lost. To ensure fair play, Save Data Cloud backup may not be enabled for such games.

To ensure that Save Data Cloud backups cannot be used to unfairly affect online multiplayer rankings, the feature will not be enabled in Splatoon 2.

This, understandably, created a large amount of backlash from consumers who argued against this stance, but Nintendo didn't back down, all the while the Splatoon 2 leaderboards continued to be defiled by hackers for months going forward.

The hassle of needing to download an app and fiddle with a phone any time one wanted to communicate with another online was so tonedeaf and archaic that it stirred nothing but ridicule, and these "special offers" at the time only included the ability to pre-purchase of NES-style controllers. These were not available for purchase to anyone without an active subscription to Nintendo Online.

The reception to the Nintendo Online announcement...
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...was not very favorable.

But even though consumers were paying for not a single dedicated server, they did still need to pay up if they wanted to keep playing with their friends. It was highway robbery, and evidently neither Nintendo nor the law had any qualms about them engaging in it.​

December, 2018
With what was for many their most anticipated game of this generation to date, Super Smash Brothers Ultimate, releasing December 7th, pressure to subscribe to the online service was at an all-time high. Like Smash 4, this new entry promised robust online features, all of which would be gated behind Nintendo's subscription. The netcode for Smash 4 had actually been, by Nintendo's standards, not terrible (at least as I played it on 3DS), but consumers were given a subtle warning during Sakurai's Nov. 1st Smash presentation when he heavily recommended that players use a LAN adapter for their Switch when playing online.

The game released and, while hype for the game and its dearth of content/polish was still at a peak, players quickly discovered that the online was greatly lacking. YouTube channel GigaBoots was quick to put out a video, on the very next day following release no less, stating that Smash Ultimate has around 6 frames of input lag when played locally using their most optimal controller setup. This much lag is already unpleasant for a fighting game, however through my own testing and experience, this number gets multiplied drastically whenever matchmaking online.

Matchmaking randomly, letting the game's online choose the optimal opponent for my Switch's region, multiplies the input lag by, on average, around 2.5 time. This means that one might expect 15 frames of input lag on average when matchmaking blindly online, as a conservative estimate. When pairing with specific people from a friends list through an arena, even this number can end up doubled, depending on their region. Playing with someone on the literal other side of the globe produced over 30 frames of input lag. This is the most extreme example I've been able to test, but one should also note that, when playing with this same person through the indie game Rivals of Aether's netcode beta branch on Steam, the input lag become less than half of that of Smash Ultimate.

Street Fighter V notoriously released with what people considered to be unacceptably high input lag, at around 5.3 frames, even less than Smash's most stable mode, but fan outcry prompted Capcom to issue a patch on October 23rd of 2018 which significantly reduced both the input lag and the lag stability to 4.41 frames. Even then, the data-miner performing the tests, WydD, called the reduction "better, obviously but not great" illustrating just how out of step with the industry Smash's online experience is.

Connection stability also takes a major hit on occasions, when the game will seemingly experience slowdown so severe that the game will literally pause itself and show a loading icon. Even more common is the phenomenon of dropped inputs due to lag, which considering their frequency, has a high impact on the overall enjoyability of the game. Overall, in terms of input lag and online performance, the game is a massive and jarring step back from even their previous outing, Smash 4, much less any other fighting game on the market. While many other fighters, SFV inclusive, get dedicated servers and no additional online fees, somehow Smash Ultimate goes without both of these modern conveniences.

Meanwhile, up to this point in time, Nintendo had released the following NES games in 3 installments, one per month:
  • October: Solomon's Key, NES Open Tournament Golf, Super Dodge Ball
  • November: Metroid, Mighty Bomb Jack, TwinBee
  • December: Wario's Woods, Ninja Gaiden, Adventures of Lolo
With such comparatively lackluster titles being released through the service for three months in a row, even optimists were beginning to have their opinions soured.

2019
During a February investor meeting, Nintendo president Shuntaro Furukawa noted that
A growing percentage is now opting for shorter plans like the one-month membership.
It is critical that these members want to continue using the service for a long time rather than letting it expire, and for that we need to build relationships with consumers and enrich the content.
With this in mind, we are currently planning ways to boost the appeal of the service on a yearly basis... It is very important to our future business and we are giving it our all.

On February 13th, Tetris 99 was released as a free game, but which required the online service in order to be played. It was effectively a battle royale competitive Tetris, and while people did mock it for the easy comparison, it was generally received as being a harmless, functional game.

On May 15th, Nintendo also rolled out a system by which you can buy two digital vouchers for $99.99 and redeem them for two digital games, so long as they're eligible. Since the online service itself is $20 USD, and buying two digital games worth $60/piece saves $20, then technically, if one buys two new digital games per year, the subscription pays for itself.

Finally, after 2.5 years, Nintendo finally introduced SNES games for the Switch by putting out 20 SNES titles on September 5th of this year. Included in this pack are many big-name games, such as Link to the Past, Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, Kirby's Dream Course, Kirby's Dream Land 3, F-Zero, and Breath of Fire. It's undeniably a better showing than the NES pack on its release, though the amount of time taken to get to this point is arguably much too long. In addition, Nintendo has genuinely improved the online play when it comes to these titles, and while they don't feel perfect, they're at least not ruined by input latency. Unfortunately this still feels like too little too late, as it was in late 2017 that we were already given the ability to emulate these games at a much higher quality on the Switch.

But these additions still didn't address the core problems of abysmally performing online ecosystems for all of Nintendo's first-party titles, and monetization introduced a full year ago had yielded no improvements the core quality of playing online. Smash's input lag still turned online into a facsimile of itself, tweets depicting Splatoon 2's poor performance were still being made to this day, and Mario Kart 8's instability and lag has still hadn't budged an inch.
Conclusion
It's become completely clear that Nintendo's management will do everything in its power to avoid addressing the core issues, and instead intend to dance around the problems sprinkling freebies. While the voucher deal may very well render this service "free*" for some users, that's only true for users who A) want their two games digitally, B) are buying two games at launch, and C) have their two desired games be on the list of compatible titles.
The problem is, what are we paying for? Cloud saves that were only necessitated by Nintendo locking us out of accessing our own save data? Cheap emulation of NES and SNES titles we've been playing at a higher quality for almost 2 years, now? The same discounts on game purchases that we'd have if the service never existed at all? The dedicated game servers that don't exist?
In this way, Nintendo's "Online Service" is less a service and more a shakedown with benefits. The consumer is forced into paying for a service that provides nothing in the way of online infrastructure, being charged in order to even go online at all. Nintendo is collecting taxes on a service they're putting almost no money into, with what feels like the fidelity of a 2005 online network, and trying to placate people with candy they distribute occasionally. Until Nintendo actually makes games that don't take on input latency whenever they go online like the Titanic takes on water, some actual servers that they could pay for with the money they're already collecting, and netcode better than monkey-scratch, then this whole "Online Service" is nothing but an inherently farcical joke. In short, it's been a fundamentally abysmal performance, one which has willfully refused to budge an inch in 2.5 years, regardless of how many freebies in which they dress it up. For Nintendo to have done no better for its consumers by this point in time is an absolute insult.
 
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Sonic Angel Knight

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That it does, but cloud saves are the only way to backup saves off-device, where past consoles allowed easy, local save backups for free.
Except the wii u which has no means of user or server backup at all, not to mention some wii or even gamecube games can't even copy data to backup. :ninja:

Still I agree with this topic that for what it's worth, the online multiplayer should have improved a long time ago and paying for it now is even worse because is required to play which wasn't the case before. So though it's important to most players to play online, paying for $20 to have the same exact poor performing games we had in 2006 on wii games (Don't remind me of super smash bros brawl) is more like paying $20 for nes and snes games I could have paid $5 for on wii u virtual console. It would be more simplified if either they never made this decision or left playing online free and the special offers separate. (it would really bring down the amount of subscribers, but in all fairness, nothing has changed when playing online since 15 years ago that makes it worth paying for)

Though they are considered special offers, the kinds I was hoping for was something similar to playstation plus such as free games, improved discounts, perhaps some early access, exclusive testing etc. But now that I think about that, playstation plus does tend to push the some personally unfavorable games for free and constant discounts on said unfavorable games as well. Is my personal opinion, but I understand that there is MANYYYYYY games on digit stores. Still that doesn't excuse many of those same exact games getting the same exact discount about every month or the ones I look for, not at all or very much a joke. :blink:

Not trying to defend Nintendo by saying this but thanks to the ease of nes and snes on switch, I did get to try some games I personally never would have. I always like to praise compilations. Regardless of selection of games people are aware of in some of the, there is always something that another may not know and be curious to try. I never would have bought Wario's woods, and since I was able to try it, I find it fun. Is not a compliment though, is just something I wanted to share. Still, I hope that things improve because I really feel like it isn't paying for, and if I had friends to play with at home, I probably wouldn't have to begin with. :ph34r:
 

Something whatever

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Pretty sure people are going to start paying for it when Pokemon ButterKnife and Pot lid comes out, just a hunch anyway...Besides if you are lucky enough to have a hackable switch, you can back up your own saves for ALL of your games.
 
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Social_Outlaw

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I haven't payed for switch online and probably never will, I'm lucky to have Amazon Prime to get those free 3 months, but anyhow, I've been said that the Switch was an early access console from the beginning. and the signs are still showing. I understand the motive of Nintendo, they took a step backwards to go foward and that's regarding to the change in hardware, but the support for the online service and OS is equivalent to third parties supporting the the PS Vita.... Even when you think you fully dissect the problem with Nintendo and you try to understand, it's still very mind boggling... (Sigh) at least Capcom did help with the ram part, I don't what would've happen to the future of Nintendo if the switch had 2gb of ram.
 
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MasterJ360

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Conclusion: It's 2019 and I still haven't paid a dime towards Nintendo's online service even with my non hacked Switch.
 

Ericthegreat

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Nintendo is collecting taxes on a service they're putting almost no money into
I can almost guarantee that this isn't true, and that there is a huge team of highly paid engineers that work on the service, it just seems that this is how Nintendo wants it.

Are there lag issues on the jp servers?
 

HarveyHouston

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I think this article should be shared. To Nintendo employees. :evil:

The majority of this article exactly expresses how I feel about the Online Service. While I had no idea that there was so much lag, I did keep pointing out to everyone that you are paying for WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY FREE. Also, the article has a point on NES and SNES titles - you don't own them; you just subscribe to play them. Here's what I think:

  1. Online Play - It should always be free. It was before, it should be again. It's stupid as hell that they are doing this. They should also try to do something about the lag issues, WITHOUT pointing fingers at the consumer.
  2. NES and SNES Games - I had stated before that this could stay part of the subscription. Actually, what I'd prefer is that these games are sold ridiculously cheap as Virtual Console titles for the Nintendo Switch, say $1 a piece. They'd make more money that way, actually.
  3. Cloud Storage - Can be a subscription thing or not; it's not a necessary feature since the Switch can take microSD cards up to 2 TB.
  4. Voice Chat/App Usage - A lot of people like to converse with others while they play. This should be free alongside Online Play.
  5. Promotional Offers - Probably should be included in My Nintendo, or another version of Club Nintendo.

But how much will Nintendo actually respond to feedback? I never hear them say "Due to complaints..." or "People have said..." No, they seem to only focus on the information they want to collect, such as statistical information - number of plays, online activity, etc. They should be listening to what we're saying! So, spread the word that NINTENDO ONLINE SUCKS!!!
 

Pipistrele

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Maybe that's just Stockholm syndrome kicking in, but in my head, I basically consider NSO a glorified Tetris 99 subscription because I love that lil' game more than 80% of paid titles I've played on the thing =)
 

arcanine

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No, they are not providing a service, not when it comes to online play. Peer-to-peer netcode means that they aren't involved at all in you playing online with others. They aren't giving you any services, and they aren't facilitating your connections to others, your ISP is doing that. What they are doing is erecting a paywall between you and the internet service you've paid your ISP to use. Dedicated game servers would be a service, for instance, and would justify a fee to fund upkeep, but that isn't the situation. If there were, this "service" would technically be its namesake, not necessarily exempt from criticism of course, but certainly more legitimate.

The closest analogy to our current situation is trying to go to a shop, and being stopped access by a third party until you pay them. With the added stipulation of you being involved in some recursive payment with the shop in question, I guess. The shop is your ISP giving you internet access, the third party being Nintendo. It's taking without providing, and one company selling the right to access a service they're not providing, a service you already pay your actual providers for, is extortion, not a service.

This same definition doesn't apply to situations like the vouchers or the NES/SNES library, of course, but that doesn't invalidate what's happening in terms of their online allowance.
So don't pay for it. What's the point of complaining about something that you don't want to pay for when you have the option of not paying?
 

piratesephiroth

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No, they are not providing a service, not when it comes to online play. Peer-to-peer netcode means that they aren't involved at all in you playing online with others. They aren't giving you any services, and they aren't facilitating your connections to others, your ISP is doing that. What they are doing is erecting a paywall between you and the internet service you've paid your ISP to use. Dedicated game servers would be a service, for instance, and would justify a fee to fund upkeep, but that isn't the situation. If there were, this "service" would technically be its namesake, not necessarily exempt from criticism of course, but certainly more legitimate.

The closest analogy to our current situation is trying to go to a shop, and being stopped access by a third party until you pay them. With the added stipulation of you being involved in some recursive payment with the shop in question, I guess. The shop is your ISP giving you internet access, the third party being Nintendo. It's taking without providing, and one company selling the right to access a service they're not providing, a service you already pay your actual providers for, is extortion, not a service.

This same definition doesn't apply to situations like the vouchers or the NES/SNES library, of course, but that doesn't invalidate what's happening in terms of their online allowance.
Exactly.
I'd understand if they charged for the cloud saving and the retro titles but for pretty much all games except Splatoon, all their servers provide is matchmaking so they consume minimal resources.
The multiplayer gameplay is always peer-to-peer so it's just a shameless paywall.
 

Meteor7

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Are there lag issues on the jp servers?
What Japanese servers? There aren't any servers at all.
Also, yes, everybody gets the lag burrito that is Nintendo online, even the Japanese.
So don't pay for it. What's the point of complaining about something that you don't want to pay for when you have the option of not paying?
A hypothetical product isn't beyond criticism just because you could not pay for it. Should every negative game review be taken down on that logic, since you don't technically have to play any of them? And again, this isn't even a "product" or a "service", as nothing is being provided by Nintendo, only by your ISP. The point of complaining is to bring attention to exploitative systems like this in order to hopefully affect a change, but also just to highlight it as the highway robbery that it is.
 

Ericthegreat

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What Japanese servers? There aren't any servers at all.
Also, yes, everybody gets the lag burrito that is Nintendo online, even the Japanese.

A hypothetical product isn't beyond criticism just because you could not pay for it. Should every negative game review be taken down on that logic, since you don't technically have to play any of them? And again, this isn't even a "product" or a "service", as nothing is being provided by Nintendo, only by your ISP. The point of complaining is to bring attention to exploitative systems like this in order to hopefully affect a change, but also just to highlight it as the highway robbery that it is.
I mean it's not highway robbery, it's unsatisfactory service. You get the nes/snes games, even though you can play them on an emulator it still counts.
 

Meteor7

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I mean it's not highway robbery, it's unsatisfactory service. You get the nes/snes games, even though you can play them on an emulator it still counts.
The NES/SNES games do very much count as a service, it's true, and so do the vouchers, in their own weird way. There's nothing inherently wrong with Nintendo selling subscription-based access to legacy titles, even if the emulation is sub-par compared to freeware; when I call the Online Service highway robbery, I'm more speaking directly to the "pay to play P2P" aspect specifically.
 
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donaldgx

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My stance on online sub is:
'Im not willing to spend an extra dime for internet access outside my payments to my isp'
Which is why pc master race is getting all my business now
 
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bodefuceta

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That's what happens to any subscription service that isn't leveraged to hell and back, bleeding money as an attempt to keep customers hostage like Netflix. It's generally worser to the user experience in the first few years, but it's unlikely to see 3x price hikes and may gradually get better. I never paid for any kind of online subscription, they don't respect the users freedom, but I'd be much more inclined to buy Nintendo online than the competitors that charge 3x more and use stupid freebies as excuse.
 

Kadji

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I have had enough about this topic.
To all the people bitching about Online beeing just p2p, saying that Nintendo is basically ripping money from us without any return of investment: That is complete and utter bulls*it.

At the very least the Friend List requires some sort of Server that the Switch communicates with.
Now we are also getting the ability to invite freinds into games, which, again, requires at least some kind of friend list Server.

But ok, let us just concentrate on the games.
If what you guys are saying is true, then explain to me:
How does my Switch find opponents to play with if there is no Server involved? (I know the answer, but do you?)
Just because the actual gameplay is working with a P2P connection (which is, actually, totaly fine if everybody has a good connection OR you are playing 1 vs 1) does NOT mean that Nintendo has 0 Servers for their games - they at least need some servers for the player matching, be it with a rating System (Mario Tennis) or with a "just throw everyone together" approach (Super Kirby Clash).

I know, this is the internet where everybody can write down his opinion and post it as a "hard fact" - and I am pissed about this.
If you don't know what you are talking about, if you are just guessing into the blue, if you have absolutely no idea how online communication in a closed eco system works: Just shut the f*ck up, or at least don't post your thoughts like they are hard, prooven facts.

I won't call any names because namecalling sucks, too.

Regarding the price: We just got over 20 SNES games with no additional cost. And NSO costs less than xbox live / ps+, which ALSO require you to pay to play online.
But sure, since it is Nintendo, and bashing Nintendo about *everything* regarding online play seems to be fine and accepted, everybody is just repeating stuff they have heard from somewhere.

And no, I am not a Fanboy - there *are* problems with NSO:
- Voicechat over the Smartphone-App is half-assed and is almost never used
- Having no dedicated LAN-Port in addition with 4 player P2P online gaming is a stupid move that Nintendo is hopefully regretting now
- No ways to communicate with friends outside of games (and even there communication is very limited, if possible at all)
- Have better matchmaking that takes the location of the players more into account, trying not only to match you with equaly skilled players but also with players that live "close" to you, reducing the lag that occures in high latency P2P connections

And for the final time: P2P in itself is not bad - in fact it is the best option if you have a 1 vs 1 situation where both clients (Switch A and Switch B) have to be synchronized. This is the case with SMM2 for example. P2P is getting worse the more connections you have and the higher the latency between you and you opponent(s) is.

A Server/Client infastructure brings it own set of problems: Laggy opponents teleporting all over the place, rubberbanding, and in theory a higher latency against your opponent, even in a 1 vs 1 situation under optimal internet conditions (wired connection, 0% packageloss, good routing that does not need 50 hops before reaching your opponent).
 

JakobAir

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I have a fiber optic connection that I had installed about a year ago. I was playing SSBU with my wife last night and it was pretty laggy.
 

geodeath

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What an absolutely ridiculous comparison to make. Nothing is being held “ransom”. They are simply asking you to pay to consume a service. The fact that you don’t think it is worth paying for is completely irrelevant.

What is being consumed though? The NES/SNES games are 'freebies' for being loyal. You are paying for 'an online service' when there is no service at all, the whole data goes between you and your fellow players. So what are you paying for then? They locked the save files behind a paywall. This is not a 'service'. It is the very concept of bad monetisation, EA style. Hiding things that should be unlocked for free, to then ask for money to unlock. As others say, until Nintendo actually pitches in with a 'proper' server-backed service and does not lock usual and expected functionality behind a paywall, the 'service' is going to look like a joke.

To give you an example, i do not personally care about online gaming and even if i did, Nintendo's games would probably be at the middle if not the bottom of the list of games i would want to play in a multiplayer setting. I do have all other consoles too. Still no online on all of them. Can still backup my saves though. Super easily too.

Nintendo has become the worst of the worst in monetising their stuff. They were always more honest with their pricing, given that they never subsidised their user base (and i like that) but now they went to the extreme opposite, where they just milk everything they can.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I can almost guarantee that this isn't true, and that there is a huge team of highly paid engineers that work on the service, it just seems that this is how Nintendo wants it.

Are there lag issues on the jp servers?

How and where exactly are they putting money towards, if there is no server between online play? If you mean the coders that built the libraries that the games use as part of the SDK then well, obviously, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the 'service' in question and it does not need a recurring 'fee' to upkeep, just somebody with a salary for an X amount of time to write once.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

So don't pay for it. What's the point of complaining about something that you don't want to pay for when you have the option of not paying?

This is an opinion piece. Obviously, whoever thinks Nintendo's offering is not worth their money, won't pay for it.
 

Foxi4

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The idea that charging for online play is some kind of rip-off is antiquated and hails back to the days of exclusively peer-to-peer multiplayer, sometimes backed with small Master servers that did little beyond listing the active sessions - that kind of multiplayer was effectively free, or close to free to implement, so charging for it wouldn't make a lick of sense. Nowadays multiplayer entails running enormous data centers filled from the basement to the roof with high-end servers that deal with a lot of the computing on their end, and that's not free - it has costs associated with running the system. The fact that PC games have gotten away with free online for this long is an anomaly and not the status quo - lots of PC games operate on a subscription model, particularly in the MMO sphere which has similar requirements. Other games subsidise this extra cost with vanity items or lootboxes. I suspect that as the implementation of cloud computing progresses there will be a tipping point for "free online", and we're not far away from that time. Industry giants like Valve can offset their losses with their storefronts, but the same cannot be said about smaller scale solutions.
 
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